treetrunk (anonymous) says...

How did the city of Emporia amass a $50,000,000 debt?

September 8, 2008 at 2:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

What we need to see published is a complete statement of what is owed and to whom and for what reason -- a line item budget.

September 8, 2008 at 3:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...

Create, its open public record, get off the computer and go get it

September 8, 2008 at 5:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jayhawker (anonymous) says...

Wow. To pay off the city's debt would require almost $2,000.00 for every man, woman and child living in Emporia. How did the City Commission allow this to happen? You are correct, create, it would be helpful for TEG to publish a detailed accounting of the source of this debt.

LifeGoesOn: From prior posts, it seems that you and justthefacts have good sources at the Police Department. From the coffee drinkers (which may be my first mistake), I understand that since January, the department's spending has increased by 35% over the same months of the year before, while salaries have diminished as the result of retirements of senior officers and departmental restructuring under its new management (for example, there is only a single Assistant Chief instead of two, and only two Captains instead of four). The savings from restructuring seem to have been overwhelmed by new spending (again, if the coffee crowd is right). If you know, what has caused this increase? Is the City Manager doing anything to curtail this? I remember a similar situation in either 1958 or 1959. In those years the Steel Strikes were on, causing a severe downturn in the economy (in those days our economy was much more tied to the "rust belt" than it is today). It turned out that the Police Chief was spending massive amounts on office refurbishing. I doubt that that is happening this time, but the numbers seem out of line. Of course, they all pale in comparison to a $50 Million debt for the city's government (and that number didn't come from the Coffee Shops).

September 9, 2008 at 12:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

emporian (anonymous) says...

You can think your ex beloved City Manager Steve Commons for our debt. When you bond everything out it is like a big credit card and eventually you have to pay.

September 9, 2008 at 12:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jayhawker (anonymous) says...

I have no doubt that you are correct, emporian, that the former City Manager had a great deal to do with this. However, the City Commission was his boss and every one of those debts was approved by the City Commission. Commissioners cannot escape their responsibility in this by hiding behind the City Manager. It is the other way around.

September 9, 2008 at 3:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...

Jayhawker, using your logic, I guess you,I and the rest of Emporian's are the ones to blame, Not the commisssion, WE (the voting public)elected them to office. So I guess you only have yourself to blame.

September 9, 2008 at 5:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

netloafer (anonymous) says...

I spoke with Larry Bucklinger about this and he advised he did not have any breakout of who the debt was owed to.

He also advised that the city will be incurring another $5MM in debt in 2009, with about $3MM of that being mitigated by debt repayment.

I checked the on-line budget and there are numbers for debt reduction as a total, but no breakout or line item information on the debt.

September 9, 2008 at 5:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jayhawker (anonymous) says...

For once, LifeGoesOn, I agree with you that we, as voters, are ultimately responsible since we elect the City Commission. Therein lies the best lesson of all. By the way, do you have any information on the rumors about the Police Department's budget's drastic increase since the new administration there came on board? It was either you or justthefacts, or both, that seems to have contacts there. Thanks.

netloafer: If your information is correct, the debt will rise by a net of $2MM this year. The City Commission needs to get on top of this. I recall an old saying that applies here: When you find yourself in a hole, the first thing that you need to do is stop digging.

September 9, 2008 at 5:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

Life, I KNOW I can go downtown to look at the budget!! What good would that do? I'd get the figures, share a few here on the forum, then get shot down by people like you because I was wrong about one thing or another.

But I want the budget published for a reason -- public pressure. Many people are bored by budgets; they haven't the slightest idea about accounts receivable or payable or whateverable. Neither will they take the time to go downtown to go look at it for themselves. But if it is in front of their faces in a newspaper, maybe their cages will get a bit rattled.

Netloafer, thanks for going downtown. Now I'm sorry to hear that line item info doesn't exist. This is not good.

Yes, we are ultimately responsible for all of this. Perhaps we should require a line item budget to be published in the paper every year like they do in other areas.

September 9, 2008 at 6:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

netloafer (anonymous) says...

Create

I was just searching for data on the debt portion of the budget. Larry Buclkinger didn't have anything, not did the published budget. I'm still checking. If I find something I'll let you know. It seems to me that someone should know what we're indebted for, particularly $50 million.

September 9, 2008 at 8:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...

Create, Lets see, if You want it published as you say you do, go get it and publish it. or I suppose you can sit back and let loafer do it for you, either way you get the info You wanted.

You say " Neither will they take the time to go downtown to go look at it for themselves." This means one thing to me, The They you refer to must not really care as much as you do and/or dont have as big a problem with city government as you do. In case you didnt notice, there are only a few who ever bother showing up for open meetings and few that post concerns on here or even few who put articles in the paper, This can only mean that FEW feel the same as you in most cases.

on a final note create, I harbor no ill will towards you, I'm sure your a nice lady with a good heart, I just get carried away at times cuz your so easy to fluster .

September 9, 2008 at 9:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jayhawker (anonymous) says...

LifeGoesOn: I suspect that a good number of those people about whom you refer feel powerless. They are wrong, of course, IF they "pack up" into a coherent group. A "community organizer" might come in handy here. As individuals, they are powerless and since most don't belong to the Country Club, they are probably right that they will be seen as troublemakers if they did show up looking for the information. Therefore, I second create's motion.

Still no word from you on the rumors about the Police Department's budget. Will you check with your sources and let us know? I would like to get the "scoop" (it'll give me prestige with the coffee drinkers). As old and decrepit as I'm getting, it may be one of my last chances to impress them. If you don't know, I know some of the "old timers" who can probably fill me in. I'm a touch hesitant though, since I hear some grumbling about how things are run down there now, so I try to avoid the subject as much as possible. Thanks.

September 9, 2008 at 10:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...

Jayhawker, I have no word from the PD, must be someone else your thinking of.

I was not refering to anyone orther than the "they" create was talking about, She says "they" are bored by budgets; they haven't the slightest idea about accounts receivable or payable or whateverable. Neither will they take the time to go downtown to go look at it for themselves.

I say "they" just dont care as much as create or have as big a problem with city government as create.

You say" they" may feel powerless, That may also be true but I dont assume they are just dumb people as Create does.
remember her quote "they haven't the slightest idea"

We all make assumtions on here at times, but I wont assume Emporians are to stupid to be able to find the information they want.

September 10, 2008 at 5:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

paulkersey (anonymous) says...

The city is using 1/3 of its income for debt reduction, and it's still going up by $3 million a year?!? Seems to me the ship has a hole in it, and the current govt. is trying to steer it in the right direction. Right now, we have to concentrate on plugging the hole before we start bailing water.

$50 million in debt is INSANE!! That says somewhere, somehow, there has been/is a massive failure by the city government.

September 10, 2008 at 7:11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

netloafer (anonymous) says...

In addition to the $50MM debt load, the 2009 budget reveals some problems requiring solutions.

1. The estimated 2008 deficit is standing right now at $300K.

2. Estimated expenditures for 2009 are $19MM, an 18% increase over the 2008 estimated, 26% higher than 2007 actuals, and 31% higher than 2006 actuals.

3. The deficit projected for 2009 is $3.8MM, with expenses projected at $19MM and revenues projected at $15.5MM.

4. A couple of line items are worth looking at. First - "other" contractual expenses are projected to double from $1.1MM to $2.2MM. Capital expense is projected to also more than double to over $2MM.

I don't know if this is the final product or if it's an earlier version.

It does reveal that we have some significant hurdles to say the least.

I don't think any of us here are experts on budgets, but I think it is fair to say that spending one third of the city's income on debt is a problem. I think it's also fair to say that a projected $3Mm deficit in the 2009 budget is problematic.

Create

I'm not clairvoyant enough to figure out what precipitated the attack on you, or why. More remedial training at Hogwart's is needed, I guess.

September 10, 2008 at 8:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

nutsaboutools (anonymous) says...

I hope I'm not hearing what I think I'm hearing; we (Emporia commission) don't have any information (line items) where the money has been spent? That doesn't sound right at all. Any business or government is accountable for expenses. Maybe an audit is in order and then a re-look at our "budget". We definitely need to "plug the hole" and take away their shovel (or give them a smaller one). We all know what'll happen if this gets worse. . . .increase taxes.

September 10, 2008 at 11:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

netloafer (anonymous) says...

nutsabouttools

I don't think that can be said yet. What I can say is that Larry Bucklinger had no information about it. I'm waiting to hear from the city commissioners. I'll let you know when/if I hear something.

I do agree that there should be detail on the debt. If I as a consumer purchase a car I have the payment book and the vehicle. If I buy a home I have the deed/title and the payment schedule including insurance, property tax burden, etc. If I purhcase a TV using a credit card I have the TV and the monthly statement outlining what the debt was incurred for.

September 10, 2008 at 11:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

nutsaboutools (anonymous) says...

You can find some information on general expenses by going to

http://www.emporia.ws/.
or
http://www.emporia-kansas.gov/pdf/200... (for the 2009 numbers)
or
http://www.emporia-kansas.gov/pdf/200... (for 2008 numbers).

A lot of red ink. If I read the info correctly, it looks like we started out with a surplus for 2008 (went downhill from there).

September 10, 2008 at 11:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

Netloafer,

Who knows. I do know that I'd like to thank you and nutsandbolts for the links and other information.

Seems like I'm not the only one who believes we need a line-item view of the budget, or as one has suggested, an audit.

September 10, 2008 at 3:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jayhawker (anonymous) says...

create: I'm sure that there are annual independent audits, and consequently, I doubt that there is any illegality afoot. However, I agree completely with you that we need to see where all of this came from. I have been suspicious of city government for sometime, but I admit to being shocked to find out that our debt stands at $50MM, and worse, still rising. I bet that somewhere in the bowels of city hall is a document, or a series of documents, that would answer these questions. TEG could perform a public service by finding the answers and publishing them. Thanks for your advocacy on this. (BTW, what did you say to have your post taken down from this board? I can't imagine that you would have said anything too offensive.)

September 10, 2008 at 3:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...

Jayhawk, Create didnt say anything that offensive, even I was a bit puzzled, I had rubbed her the wrong way on several posts and my last one saying I thought she was probably a nice lady offended her. I said sometimes I give her a hard time cuz shes so easy to fluster but I hold no ill will towards her. She took that as a slap in the face. Oh well.

I do agree with you that " there are annual independent audits, and consequently, I doubt that there is any illegality afoot." With that said I still feel if one wants answers ,Go Get Them, dont expect others to do the work for you and dont say things like, others " haven't the slightest idea" about things. This only makes it seem as if you are trying to make yourself out to be more intelligent than those you are referring to.
This is why Create,Loafer and I dont usally see eye to eye.

September 10, 2008 at 4:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

Jayhawker, I told Life he was a wimp for slamming me and then apologizing by saying he baits me on purpose because I am easy to fluster. My attitude was that if you're gonna slam someone, do it, don't apologize afterwards. Maybe this will get removed too, quien sabe.

I wasn't aware I was appearing as an elitist to people. I have a number of friends who have said that they wouldn't take the time to go downtown to look at a budget because they simply don't care one way or another or don't have the time to begin with. One said,"I wouldn't even know what to look for." Another said, "What the hell for?" Just reporting on the real world. Oh well.

September 10, 2008 at 5:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...

Create, you said
" I have a number of friends who have said that they wouldn't take the time to go downtown to look at a budget because they simply don't care one way or another" and "Another said, "What the hell for?"

That was my point!, in fact that is exactly what I said to you. Many dont care as much as you. So go get the info yourself, dont look for other to do it for ya.
I went on to say I'm sure (your) a kind lady with a good heart, thats not an apoligy just a observation. Do I bait you at times? Yep.
But who on here isnt baiting someone into a debate about one thing or the other?? You have and still do, justl ook to your last post, funny how it ended with the same "oh well" as mine did. baiting? sounds like it to me and this is where I feel you come acrosss as the do as I say not as I do kind of people. But thats just my uneducated opinion

September 10, 2008 at 6:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jayhawker (anonymous) says...

LifeGoesOn: Of course we all know that most people pay no heed to what goes on around them. That doesn't mean that these issues are not important. A $50MM debt for a town our size is dumbfounding. I agree completely with create that the TEG would do us a great public service by looking into this and reporting the background. I thought that I paid pretty good attention to local matters, but I sure missed this. We have had the "cash basis" law in Kansas since Alf Landon's first term as governor (1933-1935), which in general prohibited debt financing of local governments. Of course, as the years passed, there were exceptions added, most of which deal with big ticket items (for example, the Lyon County Courthouse) and some for emergencies (like No Fund Warrants, where the local unit can borrow from one fund to pay for another). For the life of me, as I think about it, I can't think of a single project (other than the Clock Tower at 12th and Merchant) where the city might have issued bonds (although at my age I'm lucky to remember my own name). Street, water and sewer improvements are usually paid by creating special taxing districts (where the adjoining landowners pay by having the specials added to their tax bill), and certainly some of those may be in that $50MM. How about it, Gwen? Would TEG be willing to take this on as a public service? I realize that the reporter assigned would probably throw darts at your picture because it might be the most boring assignment a reporter ever got. Maybe you could give it to the most junior member of the news staff (the one that is too new to complain yet). We would appreciate it.

September 10, 2008 at 10:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

emporian (anonymous) says...

What about the roundabout at 18 & Graphic Arts? Repaving industrial rd 2-3 times a year? The new bridge they are talking about going over the KTA? The improvements to 30th they did last year and the bridge they replaced over the KTA there. Those good awful improved street corners (that jut out into 6th avenue) at merchant, mechanic, and market. Even with grants we still have to pony up some portion of the money.

They could've been working on paying it off with the money we spent to take up the floor in the civic auditorium (which the city spent big money on to have like a 40 yr extended warranty on the old floor only to have it ripped up after 3 years). Meanwhile core city services and infastructure crumble because we dont have it in the budget.You talk about frivilous unneccessary spending it is looking you right in the face. Thank god Commons is gone or I bet it would be much higher than 50million.

September 10, 2008 at 10:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jayhawker (anonymous) says...

You're right, emporian, although I bet that KTA paid all of the costs on those bridge projects, and the state or feds on the others. I had forgotten about those concrete markers that stand on some of the corners (I forgot - to mark the boundaries of the original town site, was it?). I bet the list is long, and much of it frivolous, as you suggested.

September 10, 2008 at 11:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

emporian (anonymous) says...

Proposed 18th ave bridge project numbers straight from the Gazette.
As planned, the project is expected to cost $7.4 million. The Kansas Department of Transportation will pick up $5.414 million of that cost, while the city’s share will be $1.986 million.

That is a taste. 2 million that I bet has to be bonded. I am betting that the 30th avenue bridge was similar in cost. I am trying to find the figures.

September 10, 2008 at 11:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...

you all are right, lets never make any kind of improvments to the city,lets not repair streets,lets not try to make emporia a little more easy on the eye,lets not plant any old trees downtown or pay for any new bridges,lets just leave well enough alone, This will sure draw more new business to town and make people want to come to our little run down city. This reminds me of when the city built the overpass on prairie, everybody came out of the woodwork pissin and moaning about the "bridge to nowhere" I suppose we could have continued to drive under the tracks in a narrow tunnel, it worked just fine, right? maybe we didnt need a new swimming pool either, we could have just told the kids to go on down to the river like we did in the good ol days! as for the bridge on 18th ave, maybe you should have been a driver of a school bus trying to pass another bus coming the oppisite way, the bridge was pretty narrow, it needed replaced. The round a bout at the high school, sure has got those kids to slow down when driving through that section of road, I have seen the difference.

my point is, some of you just want to bitch and moan ABOUT ANYTHING.

Could the city do better in budgeting? probably, Could you do better with your own budgets? probably

We elect our city and county leaders by vote, if ya dont like what ya got, elect someone else or run for office, otherwise suck it up and deal with their choices. nothing in life is free and this aint the 1950's.

I dont enjoy paying taxes any more than the next guy but stop beating a dead horse, the courthouse is built, the clock tower is built the curbs that "stick out" are built, the bridges are being built. Give it a rest already, use your energy on what can be done from this point on not what should have been done in the past.

September 11, 2008 at 1:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jayhawker (anonymous) says...

You know, LifeGoesOn, you would have a point except for one big thing - we couldn't afford this stuff. Now look at us. $50MM in debt, with it still climbing. We have spent like drunken sailors without a thought about the day of reckoning (no offense intended toward drunken sailors). Well, the day of reckoning may be upon us. You may be one of those people who charges on his credit card until they won't take it anymore or a person who writes checks as long as there are blank checks in your wallet, but most of us around here think that we ought to live within our means. That was what the big rowel was over the new Courthouse - way too much extravagance. It wasn't that we didn't need a new Courthouse, or new bridges, etc., but nobody stopped long enough to figure out how to pay for it. On top of it all, we put things like a Clock Tower and cement markers denoting the boundaries of the original town site on the city's credit card. All of those things are nice, if you can afford them. You don't seem to like frugal folks, but we may soon wish that more of our leaders had practiced a little frugality.

September 11, 2008 at 2:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jayhawker (anonymous) says...

I admit that I'm an old relic, and most people may look at this post as they would an exhibit in a museum. I am a product of the Great Depression, "hard times" as we used to call it. My family suffered greatly through those years. I remember well as a young adult the words of my Dad (echoed by my Granddad) "Son, always avoid debt. If you can't pay for it, you don't need it." I have a brother who ignored that advice, and made it big in business, died with a substantial net worth. I had a first cousin who ignored it, too, and wound up in Bankruptcy Court. I was somewhere in the middle, but I only sought debt if I considered it an emergency or the opportunity lost without it would be a serious mistake. On personal spending, however, I always avoided it. Debt, in any form, is a heavy burden, always clouding the future. The same is true in public matters. Some of our leaders never understood the lesson of debt and its potential to destroy.

September 11, 2008 at 2:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

netloafer (anonymous) says...

I just got a call from the city commission. The debt detail is available. They will be sending it to me, possibly as a PDF file.

I was also advised that the detail, including amortization schedule, is a matter of public record. I'm sure they will be advising where it can be viewed.

Will advise as soon as I get the detail.

September 11, 2008 at 10:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

Good legwork, Netloafer, thank you for your trouble.

September 11, 2008 at 1:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jayhawker (anonymous) says...

LifeGoesOn: I think that you got the idea that posters like me are simply complainers. That is not the case. We have an honest disagreement with the way that the city and county have been managed over the years. We happen to believe that the leadership has spent our money too freely, too extravagantly and too frivolously. I have long worried that such free spending would catch up. I'm afraid that it has. The consequences may be hard on many of us. It is not complaining, it is just a difference in outlook.

September 12, 2008 at 2:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...

Jayhawker, OK, I dont see it that way. All I Keep trying to say is, Everyone just keeps complaining about what Has Already Happened. What the hell are you going to do about what has Already happened? It's one thing to try and fix a on going problem and make some changes but when I hear what a dumb idea the courthouse was, That to me is just a big fat waste of time! It is been Built ALREADY, there is NOTHING you or anybody else is going to change about that, You WILL pay for it, I WILL pay for it, It's Done, Period

Same goes if the city IS 50m in debt, We Are There Already, It's Done.Period.

If we as Emporians want to try to correct this so it doesnt happen agian, SUPER! If we as Emporians want to try to figure out how to get this debt paid without to much pain and suffering, SUPER!
What some on here cant get through thier thick skulls is that , the stick out curbs, the swimming pool, the courthouse, the highway projects, round-a-bouts ARE ALL EITHER DONE OR ALREADY IN PROGRESS, WHAT? are we going to shut down the road repairs thats going on now? That would be smart!

I am also not saying YOU are the big complainer, But more People on these forums in general.

Good luck getting all the info you need from the city, from what I have seen on (these forums) there are only a handful out of approx 30,000 people in lyon county who seem to care as much as the few on here do.

September 12, 2008 at 7:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

While it is true that nothing can be done about projects that have already been completed, I believe that people who continue to use the courthouse, etc. are merely using them as examples of why we need to be more vigilant about spending on big projects in the future. We have no choice but to pay for our $50MM debt, but we do have a choice to be more watchful in the future.

Sometimes a few can make a difference. Look at what the few Clean Air Emporia folks are attempting. Look at what the few business owners who disagree are attempting as a counter. I'll refer to any few who choose to get involved as Paul Revere's Raiders. After all, one man on a horse, and a few of his friends...

September 12, 2008 at 8:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Renegade (anonymous) says...

Good Luck Netloafer....You have more clout that my husband and I...We went to City Hall in July, when we questioned why we couldn't afford to have Fireworks in Emporia.......
I'm anxious to see if you get all the answers...We were told the information was "somewhere"...but not available at the time.
We didn't persue it...Thank you for being persistant.

September 12, 2008 at 8:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Renegade (anonymous) says...

P.S.......Somewhere we read that Gwen Larson was going to do a series of articles about the Budget, and the expenditures this summer....I sent Gwen an e-mail (I believe it was in July)..asking her when it would be published...and I never received a reply.
Did anyone see it?
And, Gwen....Please let us know if this was a misunderstanding??? Did we miss them?
Thanks.

September 12, 2008 at 9:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

jayhawker (anonymous) says...

LifeGoesOn: Good points, and again an example of the difference in the way that we see this problem. You are absolutely correct that what is done is done. I raise the points about the past for two reasons: 1) they are historical examples, and if we are not reminded of our history, we will repeat it, and what happened in the past is a good predictor of the future; and 2) I am not convinced that we have really changed our governing attitude. You seem to think that we have, and I hope that you are correct. We must stop the practices of the past.

September 12, 2008 at 4:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

glarson (anonymous) says...

Renegade,

You did not miss any articles. Shortly after we corresponded, The Gazette moved staff around. We have a new reporter covering the city and he's working to get up to speed on various issues facing the town right now, as well as other beats for which he's responsible.

Gwen Larson

September 12, 2008 at 5:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

WILLIAM_A (anonymous) says...

I guess the city commish is to darn busy to worry about this problem because they are hell bent on the CLEAN AIR bill that they want to pass. I guess once they abuse their power with that, then they can get back to fixing Emporia's real problems.

How much further in debt are we going to go? Think of those tax dollars we will lose from the business owners who will be closing or losing revenue because their clients can no longer smoke in public.

September 12, 2008 at 6:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Renegade (anonymous) says...

Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on September 11, 2008 at 10:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I just got a call from the city commission. The debt detail is available. They will be sending it to me, possibly as a PDF file.

I was also advised that the detail, including amortization schedule, is a matter of public record. I'm sure they will be advising where it can be viewed.

Will advise as soon as I get the detail.

NETLOAFER....This article was "buried".....Did you get the "debt detail" file yet????
I will keep this article alive on the board, because I think we should all know why the City debt for 2008 is almost 51 million.
If you have received the file, I hope you will post it here...IF you have not received it, maybe you need some help reminding your contact at the Commissioners office???
I won't let this article be buried again,because of lack of interest.

September 16, 2008 at 10:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

netloafer (anonymous) says...

Renegade

I still haven't gotten the file yet. I'm trying to be patient and have been told they are having e-mail problems.

As an added note, Larry Bucklinger did tell me that the debt would increase by $5MM in 2009 and $3MM would be applied to debt retirement. That means the debt load at the end of next year will be $53MM.

September 16, 2008 at 2:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Renegade (anonymous) says...

Thanks Netloafer..We went to the City Hall in July and asked for this information, from several people..(I won't mention names, now)...but, no one seemed to have anything "available" for us.
I appreciate your efforts....If they are having e-mail problems..I have a FAX they can use :-) .

September 16, 2008 at 3:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

netloafer (anonymous) says...

Renegade

I got the file this morning. It is four pages long. The final two are "detail" about general obligation debt under the headings "internal improvements." That probably has a lot to do with municipal accounting and method used. It's going to take some time to dig through that.

Here are some of the raw numbers at the 30,000 foot level:

General obligation debt

Bonds 27,140,000

Temp notes 6,290,000

Water utility debt 7,685,226

Sewer utility debt 9,593,565

Total 50,708,791

I'll send another snippet soon.

In macro term

September 17, 2008 at 10:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

netloafer (anonymous) says...

Renegade:

More follows. The Gazette is going to publish the detail soon. The detail goes all the way back to 1997.

I've tried to transfer the file from acrobat to word and then copy/paste to the forum. No luck so far. I'l keep trying.

I also found out that the primary reason for the $5.5MM in additional debt to be incurred this year is to pay off some temporary notes. It is going to be discussed at tonight's meeting. I will not be able to go.

September 17, 2008 at 10:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

I'm so glad to hear that the Gazette is publishing the details soon. In the beginning when I suggested this, somebody shot me down and told me to go downtown and find out for myself. Ha!

We all need to know this and TEG is the best place for information in black and white. Thanks Netloafer. Thanks Gwen.

September 17, 2008 at 3:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

justthefacts (anonymous) says...

Just caught up with the post. The coffee crowd I hang with knows there hasn't been any captains on the police dept for years. A deputy chief retired, according to previous commission meeting minutes. According to Mr. Zimmerman's presentation several of the higher ranking jobs that have been reduced are being replaced with officers and first line supervisors. I checked with the finance dept. They tell me the police dept is well within the 08 budget and actually better off than expected. The police training budget was cut by 50% to help offset the Tyson cuts and they have managed to still meet state mandated training but cut out essential training that will eventually cost the city in liability claims in the future if not fully funded.

They are currently working 4 officers short and 2 dispatchers short because of wage freezes. The adopted budget (available if you ask) shows increases in personnel costs as in all other depts because of the city pay hike and increases in fuel costs. The repair costs of the vehicles that the commission has not allowed the dept to keep up with (used to replace 4 a year and lately it's been none or 2) has caused big increases in repair, one actually caught fire not to long ago according to the logs. According to one of the officers who works there, most of the cars now have over 70,000 miles on them, pretty rough for Impalas. People should start asking why this is the only city around still trying to drive Impalas when everyone else is staying with or returning to fords or chryslers purchased on state bids rather than local dealers.

When most of their equipment is 20 years old or better you can expect to pay one way or another. Officers tell me they are the laughing stock of the state and this is a big reason why police officers don't stay here or won't come to work here in the first place. They are frustrated each time the commissioners shoot down a grant opportunity or new revenue source not tax related for improvements or new programs that are self-sustaining. They are frustrated with folks who still live in the 40's who don't understand technology and the need to invest wisely.

On top of that, they have people cramming consolidation down their throats and not involving the line staff or citizens who will have to live with the mess created. The 60k the county and city spent on the study experts would have paid for two more officers or deputies by about 70% or bought about 3 cars or a lot of new equipment.

September 18, 2008 at 11:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

justthefacts (anonymous) says...

All this information is available through the city finance office, commission minutes or recent paper articles. I also found that it's projected because of the fact the police department lost five officer positions a few years ago to help pay for the aquatic center that has never been recovered and the budgets have repeatedly been cut or frozen until the current city manager stepped in and starting things moving again.

It appears the current chief and officers are trying to find ways to get needed equipment and find other ways to pay for them.

Hopefully this will help.

September 18, 2008 at 11:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )