Missing information
Glenn and Dorothy Boyce, Emporia
Thursday, October 16, 2008
AS LONGTIME residents of Emporia as well as home owners, we have some questions regarding the Lowe’s proposal coming to Emporia. We did attend one of the meetings where the pros and cons of the building location was discussed and it was obvious that those present did not want Lowe’s to build in the suggested location.
The article that appeared in the paper on Oct. 9 from the owner of Sutherland’s was very interesting and thought that Mr. Sutherland made some very good points. One point that was brought out in his article was that the public has never been informed of the findings from the report which cost the city $75,000.
It is hard to believe that this report would suggest that Emporia needs another lumber yard. What we need in Emporia are some retail stores that can compete with Wal-Mart. We are not opposed to Wal-Mart but think that it would be good for them to have some competition, too.
Happiness08 (anonymous) says...
Where is this report, and why hasn't it been made available to the public?
October 16, 2008 at 3:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
madpoet (anonymous) says...
Their excuse was that if they released the findings of the report, other, competing cities would take advantage of it somehow. I about got a cramp laughing at that transparent excuse. I think the commissioners don't want the public to know so they can release what info they want us to hear so we'll do things the way they want.
October 16, 2008 at 3:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
vankamp (anonymous) says...
I don't know what the worry is about other cities finding out what it said, they didn't follow the advice anyway. $75,000 for nothing.
October 16, 2008 at 3:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
vankamp (anonymous) says...
I don't know what the worry is about other cities finding out what it said, they didn't follow the advice anyway. $75,000 for nothing.
October 16, 2008 at 3:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
gardenman (anonymous) says...
Maybe those wet behind the ears city comissioners ansd
just out of diapers city manager should wake up and listen
to the "old timers" once in awhile. Those graying heads of
hair represent a great amount of experience in dealing with
such matters as the nightmare known as Lowe's.
October 16, 2008 at 8:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cheerup (anonymous) says...
I think that they did listen to Roy Johnson. He one of the most respected, elder persons that I know in Emporia. He has spent his whole life caring about Emporia and the people that live here.
October 16, 2008 at 9:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bobsuth (anonymous) says...
Dear Ms. Boyce, No one knows why the study was not made public. I've seen parts of it, and it lists the stores Emporia would do well to attract-- none of which are in the lumber or home center segment.
I believe there is a conflict of interest with certain commissioners. (Please do not remove this entry, as people have a right to know-- it is not a baseless opinion and public officials should be held to a standard). The study demonstrates that the single biggest loss to out of town businesses is in auto retailing. Powerful people associated with the Commission make their money in that segment and know that if the City tries to attract that type of business it would hurt them.
I confronted the commissioners about this, only to get a vague "trust me" type of answer. People who know about how smaller communities work and how public officials are often prone to self-dealing should dig deeper here. I believe the Gazette has a responsibility to find out why the report was concealed and if there is conflict of interest.
Thank you,
Bob Sutherland
Sutherlands
October 16, 2008 at 9:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
USNretired (anonymous) says...
Such a report should be posted so that citizens and friends can network and try to help bring the types of businesses in the report to Empooria. (spelling intentional)
October 17, 2008 at 10:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
letsmoveforward2009 (anonymous) says...
Bob,
If you spent time working on your business and improving it so you don't have such poor customer service there wouldn't be a Lowe's wanting to come to Emporia. I would have spent between $5,000 to 10,000 dollars in your store this last year but because of your customer service and your employees telling me that they couldn't order in more light fixtures for me I took my business to Lowe's. I even saved myself money by doing it. I wasn't worried about the price I was going to buy local but your employees changed my mind.
October 17, 2008 at 10:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bobsuth (anonymous) says...
http://www.complaintsboard.com/compla...
October 17, 2008 at 11:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
letsmoveforward2009 (anonymous) says...
Trust me I did complain even talked to the general manager of the location. Wasn't impressed. Nice try
October 17, 2008 at 11:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
letsmoveforward2009 (anonymous) says...
Bob,
Maybe you should be working and not checking blogs in the middle of the day and that would help you out.
October 17, 2008 at 11:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cheerup (anonymous) says...
Bob
I agree with letsmoveforward that you need to spend the time you are fighting this issue, with improving your store. You need to move on. I'm sure that a man in your position has more to do than reading blogs. You need to move on.
October 17, 2008 at 11:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Joe (anonymous) says...
Mr. Sutherland,
It sounds like we have some sour grapes. Is it now time to personally attack the commisioners because you did not get your way? You stated you were not afraid of the competition. If your business is the cream at the top, you have nothing to worry about, right?
We all (Lyon County citizens) need to do a much better job of shopping our communities. Every tax dollar we spend out of town hurts us. I will gladly pay more money in town knowing that I help our business owners, provide tax dollars for my city/county services. Many will drive 300 miles on $3 gas to say they saved $100 and then rant that about how they could not find what they wanted when they didn't even look. The saddest thing is many local business owners and city/county employees do not even buy there commodities locally. To me, that is just plain supidity. Do not rob the hand that feeds you. We need to take care of each other and make our community the very best it can be!
October 17, 2008 at 1:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bobsuth (anonymous) says...
Joe, there are no "grapes" here, or fear of competition.
I do believe in fairness and transparency. If you disagree with my points regarding conflict of interest, then debate me on the substance of my arguement rather than criticize me. Do you have a logical argument about why concealing information or failing to recuse oneself in the face of conflict of interest is not improper for public officials?
There is a difference between a personal attack and a well reasoned criticism of the process. My voice has been about the latter.
I would also point out I'm the only one in this conversation who is not hiding behind anonymity. Fear is cowardly, fearlessness has nothing to hide.
October 17, 2008 at 2:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
joejoe2 (anonymous) says...
Mr. Sutherland,
Are there any car dealers that have tried to come to Emporia. If our commission denied someone from coming to Emporia than I believe your accusation would hold water. Can you name on business that wanted to come to Emporia that did not get all the help that they could from this commision? I dont see a lot of dealerships trying to come in to this area. Dont you think that a business should at least apply for some incentives before you acccuse the commisoners of not helping them?
October 17, 2008 at 3:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dale011 (anonymous) says...
I commend Mr Sutherland for watching the blog and trying to keep up with what is going on in Emporia. I too have spent a lot of money in the local store rather than going out of town. My disagreement is not with a new lumber store coming to town, but with the physical location being forced on us and the concept of providing tax increment financing - period. The intersections on Industrial Rd are dangerous and overloaded now. I'm frankly surprised we have not had terrible accidents already. TIF districts are not the way to go especially in a down economy.
October 17, 2008 at 3:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bobsuth (anonymous) says...
Joe Joe2,
No, car dealers have not approached the City. However, given the huge loss in business ($35 million) in that segment, the RDA should be doing more to attract those businesses, not just passively waiting for a sales presentation from the likes of DJ Christie.
Also, if you look at what the standards are for public officials, the City should never have concealed that report. That should have been public knowledge. Secondly, once the car dealer segment showed up so prominently, the car dealers on the commission should have recused themselves.
I do not believe the commissioners in question have intentionally done anything underhanded, but in the realm of public accountability, that does not excuse officials from being transparent and getting out of the way of decisions that effect them personally in the pocketbook. The whole thing points to a misunderstanding of ethical standards and the tendency in insular communities for leaders to confuse their good intentions with proper conduct.
-Bob Sutherland
Sutherlands
October 17, 2008 at 3:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
truelovecharlie (anonymous) says...
If the study was paid for with public funds then it should fall under the open records laws and therefore be made public. I agree with shopping your hometown first as long as that hometown business isn't marking their products up unreasonably to take advantage of the elderly, handicapped or those that live by the motto of shop your hometown first. What will Emporia do with another huge empty building once Lowes decides there isn't enough profit to stay in Emporia?
October 17, 2008 at 4:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
truelovecharlie (anonymous) says...
I was trained at Flint Hills AVTS in business. We were taught that the customer is always right and you go to any lengths to satisfy the customer. If you lose that customer; you will lose 10 more due to negative word of mouth. I have been greatly disappointed in customer service in today's world. All businesses will have to go back to the ways of old or close up shop. Competition will tighten up business practices as they will have to go back to doing anything to retain their customer base and earn new customers. Recently, most companies want to sell by orders and carry a minimum of stock on hand. When I am working on a project, I need what I need soon; not whenever they can order and receive it.
October 17, 2008 at 6:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
USNretired (anonymous) says...
Where are the investigative reporters?
October 17, 2008 at 6:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
What you have been debating here on this forum is exactly why I believe that a City Commission form of government is not the fairest and equitable form of government for Emporia.
I have been advocating a change to a City Councel form of government with Emporia divided into lets say 9 or more districts with one or two councilpersons elected to represent each district.
The districts to be South East, South, Southwest, East, Central, West, Northeast, North and Northwest.
I believe that with this form of local governmental make-up you would have a more fair and equitable form of representation of all citizens of Emporia and have a better system of openness and watchdogging.
October 17, 2008 at 8:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bobsuth (anonymous) says...
Yes, USN retired. In a healthy democracy the press acts as a watchdog over elected officials. The Gazette needs to dig in here.
Also, the Commissioners aspirations to bring Emporia forward are the right ones. I fear what they fail to realize is that Emporia will only be brought at far as the quality of its leadership. That means high standards for ethics, no conflict of interest, and complete transparency about how decisions get made. That is how communities become excellent-- through excellence at the top.
October 17, 2008 at 9:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
been_there (anonymous) says...
I think there are a lot of valuable points being made in these discussions that the prospect of Lowe's coming to town has brought up. But I still keep getting the feeling that in the end, it doesn't really matter what we, the citizens of Lyon County, really want. Money is the underlying factor here, something that most of us don't have enough of.
The report should have been made public information. I do believe it was the publics dollar that paid for this report so in all fairness, if I can go to the courthouse and pay for copies of other 'public record', I should also be able to get a copy of this report.
The location for this business has never made any sense to me. I do feel like it is a very unsafe area already with no need for more traffic congestion. I also don't understand how it can be alluring to anyone if you aren't supposed to be able to see it from 24th avenue. Besides, are the people in that area, with fairly new properties, planning on remodeling soon? Therefore making this an ideal location for the ones that 'might' be able to afford it. Face it, we are all watching where we spend our monies right now.
As far as Sutherlands goes, I've been frustrated many times that I have gone in there. Recently, the customer service I have received has been much better. Some of the kids working in the yard irritate the heck out of me but I'm also one of those people that refuses to accept some of the crap they load on my truck. I go over and pick out the lumber that I want, I'm the one that paid for it afterall. Sometimes you have to speak up for yourself instead of sitting around complaining about it to no one.
More dealerships in Emporia? I don't think so. The simple reason people go out of town is that the inventory here is lacking AND the main reason, it's way over-priced!! My daughter was looking to buy a new car and went to a dealership here. They didn't have the color she wanted and they didn't want to work with us on the financing. We drove 45 minutes to Topeka, got the exact car she wanted and paid $10,000 less than we would have paid here. A week after she bought the car, it had a mechanical issue and we were told to go ahead and take into the dealership here in Emporia to get it fixed, it was under warranty afterall with the auto maker. When we did that, we were told they would get to it when they had time and since we didn't buy the car from them, we would NOT be a priority nor would she receive a loaner vehicle. The dealership from Topeka came to Emporia, brought a loaner, took her car back and returned it after repair to our driveway. I'm sure you can figure out how I completed my customer survey that FORD sent to me afterwards. THAT is why people go out of town to buy a new vehicle.
October 18, 2008 at 8:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
That Topeka Ford dealer knows how to conduct good business by gaining customer confidence and sealing future deals. That was service! Boo on the local Ford dealer.
USN is right about needing investigative reporting. A good one is worth his/her weight in gold to a newspaper.
The fact that Bob Sutherland is active on the forum is a good thing. For one thing, he is getting an earful from those of us who are unhappy with his service and he is able to remind folks where to complain. Get the clerk's name and report it to the web site. Tell your story. Those employees need to be reminded about how to mind the store. If this brings about some further training in customer relations, as it should, good deal.
Except for situations like FORD been_there mentioned, I'm one of those who believes in shopping locally. (Hey, you've got to admit the Topeka Ford dealer did earn his respect). Taking business out of town not only robs local merchants, it also robs the people of Emporia when taxes go elsewhere. Who pays in the end?
October 18, 2008 at 9:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
truelovecharlie (anonymous) says...
The local people merchants should still have to EARN your business. The money spent is hard earned so the businesses should have to earn the right for it to be spent with them. Today's workforce is seriously lacking in initiative, hussle and curtesy. The businesses should also be willing to reward their employees that diligently treat their customers with curtesy and respect.
October 18, 2008 at 10:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )