cawren (anonymous) says...

PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN GLASS HOUSES SHOULD NOT PITCH BOULDERS.

Google: Steve Stoll and Palin.

Extreme? You must judge for yourself.

DO WE REALLY KNOW SARAH?

PLEASE do you own research.

Do your homework.
YOU WILL HEAR ABOUT THIS

October 11, 2008 at 10:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

Palin's stated stance is that the STATES themselves should be left to decide their stance on Roe vs Wade. How many states do you think would end up with pretty much the same ruling as the federal law? How many presidents since that law was enacted have been pro-life? How many of them have managed to get it overturned, or even actively tried?

In case you're not familiar with how our government works, (and that is apparent), it takes much, much more than just a president saying they want to overturn it to get something like that changed.

I much prefer the church Bush & Palin go to to what gets spewed out of Obama's church of 20 years.

And I'm glad Troopergate is out. Good thing I wasn't governor. For someone who tasered a 10-year old, poached moose, drank on the job, etc, etc.... I would have "abused" my authority much more than that to get someone like that fired.

October 11, 2008 at 10:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

goodoleboy (anonymous) says...

No question the guy is piece of trash, but what she did is still not excusable. Funny how this whole investigation started a month before she was ever tapped for the VP position and now its the Dem's engineering it. What was the old saying? 2 wrongs don't make a right?

And with the amount of appointments the next president has there actually is cause for concern on Roe vs. Wade, not panic, but concern for sure. Palin was never right for the VP in my book, this just cements things, and will likely put Obama on cruise control, yet the funny part is that McCain was aware of this and still tapped, poor judgment. I am amazed he is still even in this race.

October 11, 2008 at 10:52 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

Well, there's our point of view difference. To me, when someone like that piece of trash is a government employee, I would say that NOT getting rid of them is inexcusable. JMO

October 11, 2008 at 11:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

goodoleboy (anonymous) says...

Wow Observation did I say any of those things? Obama does not deny that he had contact or relationships with his skeletons. We have Palin who said " Hold me accountable" then hid behind lawyers, then when a verdict comes back that she does not like, she denies it, LOL too funny. There is also a fundamental difference that the weather underground happened many years ago and he does not deny it, Troopergate happened this year, AND THE INVESTIGATION STARTED BEFORE SHE WAS A CANDIDATE, so the Dem's can now see the future?

When she said that case of rape and incest were not cause for abortion THAT was the argument for her stance on abortion, even Cindy McCain spoke out against her on this, her stance is extreme and impractical, this is and will be the issue with her abortion issues.

And as far as common sense goes, I weigh the positives and negatives of each candidate and vote based on that, not a party, if that is not common sense please do enlighten me after you get done gazing in admiration of your picture of Bush crowing "Mission Accomplished".

/sarcasm off

The independent voters of this nation like myself will decide this election more than any of the blind followers of the parties. In truth I am not overly thrilled about either them, but I have to pick one.

October 11, 2008 at 12:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

USNretired (anonymous) says...

Some people are soooo obvious (except to themselves) :)

October 11, 2008 at 2:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

Abuse of power by a governor or any public official, no matter what the reason, is very serious. In fact, it's dangerous. We had a hint of that when she was mayor of Wasilla and asked the city librarian about getting rid of certain books. When later asked about that, Palin said she was testing her loyalty whatever that means. "Palin characterized the exchange differently, initially volunteering the episode as an example of discussions with city employees about following her administration's agenda." (Anchorage Daily News, 9-4-08).

I'd like to know what her administration's agenda was as far as library books are concerned.

Poaching moose by the trooper is one thing, illegal yes, and I disagree; but shooting wolves from helicopters and taking polar bears off of endangered lists because you don't believe in global warming is dangerous too. Believing that people lived during the time of the dinosaurs is even worse. I don't want that kind of loony science taught to my children.

Here's something Palin approved at which a few might wince...
http://dwb.adn.com/front/story/925388...

What bothers me more than anything else is that Sarah Palin was McCain's bait for attracting Hillary Clinton voters. Does McCain think that women vote in blocks and have no minds of their own? How can someone who claims to be a sharp thinker be so shallow? What an insult to women everywhere.

October 11, 2008 at 3:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

goodoleboy (anonymous) says...

Could not agree with you more Create, I would be saying the same things now about her if Obama had her as his running mate. Someone with her mentality just does not belong in a position to lead all of us, whats sad is that since we disapprove of her, we are liberals. Out of McCain, Biden, and Obama she is the one that just flat scares me, unsound logic is unsound logic no matter how you slice it.

October 11, 2008 at 3:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

eiggohp (anonymous) says...

Palin has more executive experience than either Obama or McCain....they have never even ran a lemonade stand~~~
I would rather have Palin and her character that Obama with Acorn corruption and Ayers, and Rev. Wright!!!!! Character determines decisions and he makes me very scared!

October 11, 2008 at 4:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

"Obama does not deny that he had contact or relationships with his skeletons.".

Actually, we know that to be false now. He denies ever training ACORN people, something ACORN themselves say he did. It is becoming increasingly obvious as more evidence comes out that Ayers was more than "just some guy in the neighborhood".

But it isn't just the relationship that bothers me. Everyone of us probably has some contact or relationship with someone that would not reflect good on us as a politician. It is the VIEWS that Obama agrees with that are in conflict with my own. Obama cannot help it that Louis Farrakhan (Nation Of Islam leader, and probably one of the biggest racists alive in the US today) supports him and has referred to him as "the Messiah". Does that make Obama a Muslim and racist? Does the fact that Ayers supports him make him a terrorist? Certainly not. There are alot of kooks out there that support McCain/Palin, probably most KKK members - does that make McCain sympathetic to the KKK?
Again, it is the policies that bother me. Obama supports Ayers views on education, and his books. Ayers hates capitalism with a passion, and his aim is to promote socialism thru education. THAT is what bothers me about Obama supporting Ayers policies. ACORN is one of the big players at the heart and beginning of this economic/mortgage meltdown. And Obama has been a big supporter of their policies.
It's policies, people. If you hate capitalism also, and want to move America closer and closer to socialism, (like that isn't already happening with the bank takeovers) - then by all means, Obama is your man. There's a difference between distancing yourself from people when you don't agree with them, and distancing yourself from them ONLY after you are in the public eye and the media get ahold of it. Just don't gripe to me when your kids come home from school in fatigues showing you the latest march and chant in support of their new Messiah, like the vidoe released by the KC school recently.

October 11, 2008 at 5:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mythoughts (anonymous) says...

I'm with you goodol'boy - It doesn't take a genius to see that Palin has got some deep, serious problems that appeal directly to the narrow minded religious bigotry that evangelical religion has become. The blind leading the blind, eye for and eye and all that. You just can't reason with them.

What kind of a human being would require a woman who has been raped to PAY for the kit used to test her for rape? What kind of a woman would endanger the birth of her child by flying home to Alaska instead of heading straight to the hospital? The vindictiveness of Troopergate is just the tip of the icerberg--she could put Cheney to shame in the level of moral decrepitude.

I appreciate seeking the guidance of God in all things, but I believe he gave me the sense and judgment to make decisions without "signs" and "messages" from above. Will Palin get a "vision" from whoever telling her to initiate Armageddon? I would not be surprised. That person scares me to hell - at least I know Obama is a well reasoned and thoughtful person, a compromiser in the best sense. I have no qualms voting for him in light of McCain/Palin.

Good luck everybody - keep your heads down and your behinds low!

October 11, 2008 at 6:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

goodoleboy (anonymous) says...

The problem is that McCain's policies are not any better, and in fact worse in a lot of areas, plus he has a vice president that is delusional in a lot of areas in reality, as Create pointed out above, not to mention that she herself is no better than many of the people she chides as corrupt.

I have to agree with you Open eyes, I am not a fan of his ties to Ayers either, but in my mind Obama has more of an upside than McCain, so I will respectfully agree to disagree with you. But as far as the socialism you talk of now its getting plenty of support from republicans at the moment and to be quite frank, nationalization of the banking system is the next step whether we like it or not.

October 11, 2008 at 6:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

There is also a very narrow-minded anti-religious bigotry in this country that just cannot be reasoned with. And a hatred of Bush that goes beyond all sanity and reason.

I don't think McCain's policies are the solution to everything. But I do think that his policy of reigning in Fannie & Freddie years ago beats all to heck Obama's support of ACORN continuing to force banks to make hundreds of millions of $$ in bad loans that should never have been made.

In some areas, I like Obama's policies better than McCain's. In other areas, I favor McCain. Overall, I have to weigh which are most important to me, and make my decision on that.

I agree on the nationalization that is taking place. I only hope that down the line, (fingers crossed), once things stabilize and maybe even pick back up, that things will be sold back to the private sector, hopefully at a profit. And regulations put into place, INCLUDING regulations AGAINST the ones put into place in the Clinton years forcing lending institutions to basically commit suicide, all in the name of fairness.

We already know that Obama will not be able to implement many of the policies he had planned in light of the current situation. Or that WOULD sound the death knell of this country. Right now, we need some serious fiscal conservatism (my opinion). The Republican party is SUPPOSED to stand for that, and in the last 8 years they have strayed woefully far from that. I understand people being upset with that, I am also. Based on the campaign promises I've heard from both sides in my lifetime, and what actually transpired, it's a miracle I even bother to cast a vote at all in November anymore...... :(

October 11, 2008 at 7:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

stryker1_25 (anonymous) says...

This political mess just goes to show us that we cannot put faith in government and politicians. Faith in God's Word is truly the only answer.

John 14:6

October 11, 2008 at 7:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

Don't you dare start getting apathetic on us now, open_eyes. You'll vote McCain just to spite me. LOL

October 11, 2008 at 8:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

acricket (anonymous) says...

Why don't we all vote 3rd party, since no one likes the two thats on the ballot.

October 11, 2008 at 9:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

hottopics (anonymous) says...

I still dont understand with all the government officials that we have in our country this is the "best" we can come up with on either side???

Im with you, acricket, how in the world can I vote either party. So in my opinion, if you dont like your choices, dont vote. Dont simply choose the lesser of two evils, just say NO THANKS. I know that I will have a clear conscience about it.

October 11, 2008 at 10:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

goodoleboy (anonymous) says...

Wrong, you can vote 3rd party, there NEEDS to be one, not voting is apathy, and we all would not be here if we were apathetic.

October 11, 2008 at 11:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

goodoleboy (anonymous) says...

styrker,

So can I vote God on the 4th and everything will be alright? Last I checked God was to have no place in government, and I would wager at this point he would not want anything to do with it either lol.

I have a real hard time injecting religion into politics, its recipe for disaster. But if he can solve the financial crisis, end the war in Iraq, and reduce the national deficit then hell even I will believe my great great great great granddad ran from Trex.

October 11, 2008 at 11:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

stryker1_25 (anonymous) says...

The same God that gives is the very same God that takes. You can believe what you want, but He's still in control.

October 12, 2008 at 1:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

I'm all for separation of church and state. But, I think, if there was a little more God in government, or at least in the heart of the politicians there (and don't start throwing crap at me about extremists who would overturn everything and turn government into a Christian version of Sharia law) - that we wouldn't be in the mess we are now. I would love to see a little more Christian principles of honesty and doing the right thing replacing the corruption and greed in the hearts of our politicians these days..... so, yes, let's put a little more God in the government. At least in the hearts and minds of those leading us. Because I don't trust those who think mankind is the sole and end-all purpose of the universe, and that all laws, ethics, and morals rest on their particular interpretation at that time.

October 12, 2008 at 10:22 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

wirewatt (Ken Bazil) says...

The comments I read hear about a person from Alaska is about as dumb as can be. Most people would have fired the cabinet member before she ever got their. The Trooper should have been taken care of by his immediate supervisors. I don't agree with everything she stands for, but isn't afraid to do what she thinks is best. I would bet if all of Obama 's past where to be under a magnifing glass, they would be yelling race and more. If he gets in and he probably will I sure hope all of you good ole boys are ready for a real mess. He and his Chicago buddies have been a major players in the housing mess and thats the truth.

October 12, 2008 at 10:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

oh, create, I've been apathetic and disallusioned from the moment I saw who America narrowed our choices down to for us. More disallisioned on one side than the other, (I think you know who) - since I was truly hoping for a candidate of change - but in the right direction.

October 12, 2008 at 10:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

wirewatt. I think Obama's past has already been
"under a magnifing glass" many times. Palin may not be afraid of doing what she thinks is best, but look at the mess she created in Alaska by doing it. The whole brother-in-law thing should have been left alone or taken care of within the family, not the governor's office. Even the legislature thinks so. As far as any "real mess," you claim will take place, I think you're wrong and we will all see that soon. I'm gonna remember your post, maybe even refer to it six months from now.

I'm still optimistic, open_eyes. I think we're all going to board a new boat. There may be a few leaks so we have to keep an eye on them. No need to bail, but we can't go too fast yet, and we have to watch the weather carefully because the seas can suddenly get choppy . But we have a big box of good patches and some guys who know how to patch canvas. "The good seaman is known in bad weather."

October 12, 2008 at 11:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

I don't perceive what happened in Alaska as a very big "mess". If she wasn't running for VP we'd have never known about it. We're talking about 1 person getting fired who it seems everyone is in 100% agreement NEEDED to be fired. Gee, what a terrible mess. If you want to look at abuses of power, look at all the people that get pardoned when a president leaves office, especially the last one.
I look at the current housing mess we are in, and the major players that started us in this direction, as a much bigger mess than anything coming out of Alaska. But, as long as we just keep chanting the mantra of "it's all because of Bush's policies the last 8 years", those that want to believe that deep in their hearts will continue to believe it. Elections are, unfortunately, sometimes all about who managed to fool the most people.

October 12, 2008 at 11:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

Create, I'd never vote for McCain just to spite you. After all...

"There once was a gal named Create,
Who's meals were considered by all great.
She came down from her castle,
and flavored the food with basil,
and never again for supper were people late!"

LOL

October 12, 2008 at 12:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

It would be interesting for everyone to write down their predictions for 6 mon, 1 year from now, seal them up, then take them out and read them. Their predictions for what happens in the case of each candidate being elected.
As for me, what you'll probably hear most from me in one of the cases will be something along the lines of "Hey - you got exactly what you voted for - don't whine to me".

October 12, 2008 at 3:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

LOL, a limerick, how neat! I'll have to stock the sailboat with basil.

I think I will write down my predictions for one year from now re: each candidate. Not going to share. We'll see. Of course no matter who wins, you can still say, "Hey - you got exactly what you voted for - don't whine to me".

I remember the bumper stickers that used to say "Don't blame me, I voted for Bush" back when Clinton was in office, back when everybody wanted to impeach him for Monica, back when we had money, back when there was basil in every pot.

October 12, 2008 at 5:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

True, but ya gotta look at how that basil got there. Was it paid for, donated, or given on bad credit? Lots of basil in every pot after Clinton regulations forced lending institutions to be held accountable to organizations like ACORN. Short-term short-sighted feel-good policies are always wildly popular at the time, and once they inevitable fail, they are always pinned on the one who has the reigns when the collection agent knocks on the door. And anyone who dares put a damper on it will always be extremely unpopular at the time. Now the basil bill has come due, and once again, I am saying: "Don't blame me, I voted for the guy that tried to nip this in the bud 5 years ago".

I will say that no matter who is elected, things are gonna get worse before they get better.
North Korea has stopped work on the nuke reactor, and once again starting dismantling it. Yet another mess created over a decade ago, being cleaned up now.

October 12, 2008 at 9:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

Did anyone google Steve Stoll and Palin? I didn't at first, but I did this morning. It's an eye opener.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/200...

October 13, 2008 at 7:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

momus (anonymous) says...

Thanks for the link create. Wow. I mean, wow. If we want to have the degrees of seperation to nut jobs contest, game set match Palin.

October 13, 2008 at 8:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

kseyetie (anonymous) says...

"Does that make Obama a Muslim and racist? Does the fact that Ayers supports him make him a terrorist? Certainly not....." ===== Good point. Machine Gun Johnny is in league with two of the most well-known domestic and international terrorists, who happen to hold important jobs......president and vice president of the United States.

October 13, 2008 at 8:44 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

"two of the most well-known domestic and international terrorists...... president and vice president of the US"....

create, what was it you were pointing out about the people at the Palin/McCain rallies? Should the guy in the article you posted a link to be fair and point out people like kseyetie as also "stoking the fires of hatred"? Why or why not? Why is kseytetie's view/opinion any different? Is it just because they were written down, instead of shouted out? Why does that make a difference or not? Should Obama do like McCain, and denounce this kind of talk? Why or why not?

October 13, 2008 at 9:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

acricket (anonymous) says...

If you don't like the two on the ballot than go look on line at the others that you can vote for.

October 13, 2008 at 10:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

Palin is on TV right now picking on the Democrats for "looking to the past" to assign blame. HUH? Is she living on the same planet that I am?

"We will balance the federal budget by the end of our term." Wow, big brave promise for such a big problem.

"Drill Baby Drill and Mine Baby Mine." No mention at all about other kinds of energy resources. Same old, same old.

There she goes again, bringing up Ronald Reagan, riding on his coattails, even using Reagan's "That shining city on the hill...." More originality.

open_eyes, you yourself must denounce any talk you hear on this forum. Neither candidate is reading nor posting here so how can we expect them to denounce kseyetie or any others for stoking the fires?

I'm sure if some man or lady stood up and made a comment to Obama at a rally like the gal in red did last Friday at McCain's rally, that Obama would do the same thing. I'm sure he has it in him if someone stood up and said, "McCain buckled in that prison camp. He gave secrets and I don't trust him." Don't you think that Obama would immediately dimiss that person at least as strongly as McCain did with that misinformed woman in red? I'm quite confident that he would put that person in a well-deserved place for making such a stupid comment.

October 13, 2008 at 10:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

Democrats need to look into their own past for some blame, not just the GOP. That is the planet I and 300million+ other Americans live on.

Can't remember the last candidate from either party that hasn't promised to balance the budget.

"No mention at all about other kinds of energy resources"

I guess you haven't really listened to any of what Palin says yourself. At all. Only Olbermann's reports on her. If you had, you would have heard the constant emphasis on the fact that we DO need to work hard on alternative energy sources. We also need to "Drill, Baby, Drill" in the meantime. They CONSTANTLY harp on the fact that we need to find energy independence, which includes any and all forms of alternative energy, including solar, wind, as yet undiscovered, etc.... they list them EXPLICITY and out loud. Not exactly a "no mention at all", if you keep your ears and eyes open.

So, when Obama quotes MLK, JFK, or someone like that, exactly what is he doing? Is he being original? Is he the only one that is allowed to quote figures from history without losing his originality? Why? Why does he deserve to be viewed in a totally different light when quoting others?

I'm glad you said yourself I must denounce any hate-mongering talk here. You posted a link to the left-wing idiot talking about how McCain-Palin were stoking the fires of hatred, yet when Gary Lukin posted his idiotic Repub hate-editorial...... you didn't post anything denouncing that. I have stated on here and denounced statements about Obama being a Muslim and the like. I've said whoever is elected I will give the benefit of the doubt, that they will be MY president, and see what the next 4 years bring. You don't denounce the hate against Palin, and especially the hate against Republicans and Bush. Sure, the candidates don't read this forum. But are you trying to tell me Obama is ignorant to Bush haters and the like such as kseyetie? Or the movie about assassinating Bush? Or the DailyKos? Which candidates have appeared with the DailyDos? I'm just asking why hate is ok on one side, and not the other?

I have no interest whatsoever in posting any links to DailyKos, or links like you posted. I have no interest in giving any of the Hate-mongers on either side yet another outlet for their hatred. If that is what discussions here are going to amount to then it is time for me to find another outlet to have sane, sensible, honest, intellectually stimulating discussions (I can hear the cheers and applauds already).

October 13, 2008 at 11:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Fixed_News (anonymous) says...

Does anyone realize Kathleen Parker is a right-wing columnist?

October 13, 2008 at 12:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

lycomu (anonymous) says...

open-eyes i rarely agree with you. but this post is completly right on. how can our leaders truly lead when they spend most of their time assualting their opponent rather than assualting the problems at hand. Both parties engage in this he said she said, can you believe who they know, met, pal around with nonsense. I propose we eliminate all parities. Then the candidate or the incumbent might represent all of their district, state or country. I am so sick and tired of the same old crap. Does anyone wonder how we ever get anything done, right or wrong, just something accomplished? I might have drank the kool-aid but i think obama has more of chance to affect change, but like you, i will support whomever is our next president. I may be old fashioned, but i do truly beleive in WE THE PEOPLE and COUNTRY FIRST.

October 13, 2008 at 12:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

lycomu, we're definitely on the same page on this. I've repeatedly said I wish we would do away with the party system. COUNTRY FIRST may just happen to be the McCain campaign slogan at this time, but it's high time both parties used it as more than just a slogan. Some of the Dems that said there was nothing wrong with Fannie & Freddie not too long ago have come out and admitted they were wrong on that point (but not good old Barney Frank). Which gives me alot more respect for them, and if they were in my state, they would at least stand a decent chance of me voting for them next time.
We may disagree on who has the most chance to affect change, but I respect your views, as I do the views of all, as long as they give an honest assessment of both sides, and don't fall down into the hate-mongering-its-all-Bush crap. As I've said before, I don't WANT to be somewhere where I only hear one side (which is never going to be 100% the truth). I wouldn't watch Hannity & Combes if they got rid of Alan. I wouldn't watch O'Reilly if he started only putting on people that agreed with him 100%, from only one point of view. (Regardless of the fact that it sounds like I'm plugging Fox News, "yet again", I'm just using them as an example for somewhere I can hear both sides of the issue in the same forum on a regular basis - unfortunately, I don't have many others to choose from to make my point).
As it sits right now, I'm voting McCain. If he is elected, and screws it up, he won't get my vote again. If Obama is elected, the same will happen. If things go differently under his administration than what he has planned, and better, then he just might earn my vote in 4 years. We shall see. But links to hate-posts and Gary Lukin do nothing except exactly the opposite of their intended effect. The people that already have their minds set in stone are not going to be changed by anything short of a nuclear bomb. And probably not even then.

October 13, 2008 at 12:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

I was listening to what Palin herself said this morning at their rally in Virginia Beach. It was live. I wasn't filtering it through any talking head, no matter what program. I "really listened" to what she said about drilling and mining. I even quoted it. I did not hear her say anything about alternative energy sources this morning.

"Can't remember the last candidate from either party that hasn't promised to balance the budget." Sure, they all promise to balance the budget, but under the present economic circumstances when everything is in chaos? McCain is a senator. If he has some secret to success then he needs to be back in Washington letting them know now while we're all bleeding money.

I don't remember posting on the Gary Lukin article. I'd have to look that up, but you're awfully good at research so I'm trusting you. I'll remember to get ready and pounce on any and all hate I see from now on. I'm not just saying that. I do my share of denouncing on here as it is, that's for sure. I'm sure people are sick of seeing my name.

And by the way, I am always quick to credit you when I agree with you. When McCain was quick to put that woman in red in her place, I immediately gave him credit. It made me feel good for him (and for me) to see him refuse to let that comment go. I will say again that I respect him for having done that and keeping his temper too. I wouldn't have. Sorry, I still will not vote for him, but I do respect his having immediately squelched a very damaging rumor.

I don't know what movie you're talking about with regard to assassinating Bush so please don't hold me responsible for pop culture. In addition, the link I posted was to an interview with one of Alaska's better known citizens and a colleague of Palin who had wanted to secede when she was mayor of Wasilla. I don't think it had anything to do with hate. It is evidence that she allowed herself to be involved with folks like him. I'm guessing that's the link you're talking about; otherwise, I don't know where you're coming from.

As far as sane, sensible, intellectually stimulating discussions, I hope we can keep it as sane as possible. Let's not attend any rallies. But it's getting ugly because it's getting late.

I will say this, it's too bad that Troopergate must come out now right in the middle of the campaign. Is the timing a coincidence? Sounds like it. Shall we blame Alaskan legislators for pulling strings or the media for making a big deal of it? Palin says those legislators never did get along with her to begin with. Makes me think that they might be willing to damage their own governor at this, the worst time of all. I'd like to hear from them. If I were a journalist, I'd go interview those legislators to ask them why they only now pushed the ethics case.

Sigh, cook, grow basil....do I have to do everything?

October 13, 2008 at 12:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

lycomu (anonymous) says...

if intelligent, decent people like us can have actual discourse about such important matters, then why is it so very difficult to our elected officials do do the same? Even if i disagreed with a politician, i would have great deal of resepect for them if they would speak in complete sentences that were used to directly answer a direct question. Im a bigboy, i can handle the truth, try using it

October 13, 2008 at 12:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

just to clarify my earlier statement, Bush IS to blame for some things, no doubt. Things he has done completely wrong, some partly wrong, some he could have done better, some he has done very well.

What politician in history can you not say the same things about? But if you like to refer to him and Cheney as "terrorists, both international and domestic"....well.... take 2 aspirin and call me in the morning.

I didn't listen to Palin this morning so I will trust you on that - but I've seen plenty of interviews and other speeches where she specifically named alternative sources. She'd be a fool not to. And I'll say if she left them out of her speech today that was foolish. That might be the only speech of hers some people will ever listen to, and base everything on that.

I pretty much roll my eyes anytime anyone promises to balance the budget. Yep, Clinton did it, but he had an extraordinary set of curcumstances happen under his watch that certainly did not hurt (the dotcom bubble). Not to mention easy credit for millions who didn't deserve it, sure made for good economic times.

For awhile, at least.

The movie I'm referring to is "Death Of A President", released in 2006. Haven't seen it, never will. But I've read plenty of reviews, some positive, some negative. It deals with anger and resentment in the US against Bush over the Iraq war, and his assassination, and the aftermath. A movie.... about the assassination of a sitting president.... while he is still in office...... hmm....

Like I said, let's put a movie out similar to this called "Death of a Candidate", about Obama, and release it right now, during the campaign, and see if there is the same kind of ..... NON-outcry. Anyone care to place any wagers?

I've been multi-tasking all morning, I gotta get some real work done. So I gotta leave the posting to others for awhile (yet again, I hear the cheers and applause :). At least I don't have to grow the basil this afternoon.... LOL

October 13, 2008 at 1:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

I did not accuse Bush and Cheney as being terrorists, open_eyes. That was kseyetie. Stop lumping me together with other people.

I'm going out to the basil patch right now! At least it's green out there unlike my IRA.

October 13, 2008 at 1:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

I was fully aware of that, create. I intended that for kseyetie. Next time I will mention them by name.
Had to take a break and peek in.....

October 13, 2008 at 2:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

Thank you, open_eyes. A bushel of basil for you today.

October 13, 2008 at 3:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

I'm surprised you didn't weigh in on that other article, open_eyes, the editorial by Chris Walker.

October 13, 2008 at 3:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

which one? Sorry, jumping between computers today...

October 13, 2008 at 3:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

Here you go...sorry.

http://www.emporiagazette.com/news/20...

October 13, 2008 at 3:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

The only one recently I see in the list by him other than community news (Pats on the back, etc) was "Learn from the Past", which I posted on frequently. Check out the post near the bottom on the porkbarrel spending habits of the new Democratic congressmen (No more guilty than the Republicans, just showing how they got elected on the promise of cutting back on porkbarrel spending, then......... lied......)

October 13, 2008 at 3:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

Oh... yeah.... well, I didn't bother, nothing new there. I've already harped on Bush trying to push it thru 5 years ago, and agreed that he didn't harp nearly loudly enough. Then again, if he had, since the housing bubble was still going strong, I'm sure by doing the "unpopular" thing, he would have been branded racist, uncaring, etc.... the Bush-haters would have been out in force...... but I won't excuse him for not making it more central to the public eye at the time. Maybe he thought, much as Clinton in the 90's, if and when it finally burst, it wouldn't be on his watch....

As far as "Mission Accomplished", I'm not enough of a military brass to define exactly the fuzzy line between "major combat operations" and what we are doing now, training, assisting, rebuilding, etc., along with the smaller ongoing combat operations. Regardless of the numbers of people stationed in a particular area. You'd have to ask some ex-military person that frequents these boards for their take on that. Any opinions from them?

October 13, 2008 at 4:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

No training, rebuilding, or assisting was taking place during the Battle of Fallujah, March, 2004. "Mission Accomplished" was one year before, May 1, 2003.

No fuzzy lines here: One of the most fierce battles of the war can be considered The Battle of Fallujah (the first one). It took place right after those Blackwater contractors were ambushed by insurgents and dragged through the streets. We were unsuccessful in capturing the city and it resulted in an insurgent victory. 27 American soldiers were killed and some 90+ were wounded. Later, we did capture Fallujah and more bloody fighting took place. I'm no military expert; my late husband was a Marine. Semper Fidelis.

October 13, 2008 at 5:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

The lead story/talking points on O'Reilly tonight was all the hate rhetoric lately, he specifically mentioned first the people showing up at the McCain campaigns and yelling racist and other insults. He's playing clips of Palin bringing up Ayers also. And, as usual, commentators from both sides giving comments on it. To be fair, he also pointed out the crap that comes out of the DailyKos daily, and replayed his question to Obama about his support of that site. They're blasting what comes out from both sides.
Too bad you can't stand him, create. You'll never get anything like this from Olbermann. Well, you'll get 50% of it, anyway - LOL

October 13, 2008 at 7:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

Surprise!!! I watched O'Reilly tonight just to keep up with you, open_eyes. I was particularly interested in his "discussion" with his guests. He doesn't really let them talk much, does he? And he dismisses hyperbole. But I watched him tonight.

October 13, 2008 at 7:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

OMG!!!!! I'm so shocked..... I don't know what to say.... LOL

Welcome to the Dark Side, Luke........ (But I am not your father).....LOL

Yep, sometimes he gets a little overbearing, sometimes not. Depends. I don't know of any commentator or talk show host that doesn't at times. I've pretty much seen them all cut off their guests at times. But I thought dismissing hyperbole was a good thing?

Anyway, I only got to watch the first 15 min then had to leave. I'll watch the remainder later tonight..... but thru completely different eyes, now that I know create watched it too.... I might have to have a basil-flavored late snack while I watch it..... :)

October 13, 2008 at 9:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

Dismissing hyperbole IS a good thing. I was being facetious. I should have said it this way. And he dismisses hyperbole. Wow!

Hope you enjoyed your basil snack. A little fresh mozzarella drizzled with extra-virgin olive oil and basil on toasted baguette. Today, I'm making basil salt -- fresh basil blended with sea salt -- for cooking or even...sigh....BATHING!!!

October 14, 2008 at 7:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

More ethics investigations in Alaska. Heck of a place. I like their salmon.

http://www.adn.com/troopergate/story/...

October 14, 2008 at 7:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

kseyetie (anonymous) says...

At least Palin is consistent; after the report came out, she lied about its conclusions and her role in the matter. If the AK Supremes turn her down today, all h*ll will break lose. I don't dislike the woman (although her voice is grating); I just don't see what's special about her.

October 14, 2008 at 9:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

Would that be similar to how Obama consistently lies when he denies he ever trained ACORN people?

http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/ob...

I don't dislike Obama either, nor do I see what is so special about him. He claims to be some "new kind of politics", but all I see is more of the same old, same old... work to get voters registered, then work to get names thrown off your opponents petition so you can run unopposed, etc..... same old politics. All 4 of them. (Yawn)
What this country needs is a good old-fashioned house-cleaning. If every Senator, Rep, & governor knew for a fact that unless they started representing THE PEOPLE they would be out on their arse in 4 or 6 years, they might actually change. But now, the only aim they have for their first 4 years is making sure they get re-elected for the next 4, or that their party stays in power.....

Here I go, getting cynical again about the whole thing. I'm the only person I would trust for President. At least 70% of the time - LOL

October 14, 2008 at 12:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

kseyetie (anonymous) says...

"open_eyes (anonymous) Would that be similar to how Obama consistently lies when he denies he ever trained ACORN people?" == not a bad point, actually. Registration problems and voter fraud are not the same thing. There is lots of the first, and almost none of the second. BTW: Machine Gun John likes ACORN too.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10...

October 14, 2008 at 1:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

Like I've said, I think ACORN has some good-intentioned, well-meaning aims that have gotten derailed, especially in their drive to provide housing for the poor. But the way it was done once Clinton modified the Community Reinvestment Act even more was, as we are now all finding out, not the correct course.
Yes, they may be different things, but there have been voter FRAUD convictions of ACORN members in the past. So I'd say that bears keeping in mind. And alot of voter fraud starts with....... fraudulent registration.........

October 14, 2008 at 1:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

USNretired (anonymous) says...

Nation building has a goal, it can be put together as a mission. The mssion that was accomplished that all of the lefty types decry was the invasion. It was accomplished quickly and, from a military standpoint, correctly. That means with minimal loss of lives and equipment, our wish is to never lose one of our people and bring them all home walking on their own two feet. Plain and simple.

October 14, 2008 at 3:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

ACORN, ethics investigations, Ayers, banking blame game, yada yada. We hear so much about negative campaigning, but here's an article from the Christian Science Monitor that says that all the mudslinging has a purpose and it's really good for us. I paused to think too. After all, we pay attention don't we? Give it a quick read.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20081014/...

October 14, 2008 at 4:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

Good find, create. And a sensible article.
I think people need to separate out what is mud-slinging and what is prudent to point out. For instance, does Obama's involvement with Ayers deserve scrutiny? Yes. Does it automatically make him a terrorist? Of course not. Does Palin's role in Troopergate deserve scrutiny? Yes. Does it automatically make her a chronic power abuser? Of course not. Mud, for me, is bashing Obama because he is black, just like bashing Palin because she is a woman. Or bashing her because her 17-year old daughter got pregnant out of wedlock. I'm still waiting for the book written by those bashers who can guarantee a parent that their teenager will never stray from the path their parents taught them... GUARANTEED best seller.... :).

October 14, 2008 at 6:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

Source: Washington Post, 10 Oct 2008

"Alaska Governor Sarah Palin's meteoric rise to prominence on the national political scene after only 21 months in office came about with the help of a media relations and marketing consulting firm hired to draw national attention to the state's proposed natural gas pipeline project. Alaska's Department of Natural Resources paid public relations expert Marcia Brier of Needham, Massachusetts $31,000 to pitch stories to the national media that promoted Palin as the driving force behind the pipeline and getting the state legislature to go along with it. Brier sent press releases to national media outlets portraying Palin as an "upstart governor" and crusader against Big Oil, the same story line Palin now uses in her campaign with John McCain. Some state legislators take exception to the portayal of Palin as the sole force behind the pipeline, when many other people worked on the project. Once the PR campaign began, Palin was away from the Legislature so much that lawmakers started sporting red and white "Where's Sarah?" buttons. Among Brier's past clients is a 23 year-old Saudi prince, Bader al-Saud, whom she helped to get a plea deal in a vehicular homicide case after he was arrested for drinking and driving in Martha's Vineyard in 2005."

So the whole maverick thing is contrived! I'm going to just stop digging on the Net and go out to the basil farm where digging at least produces good scents.

October 15, 2008 at 4:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )