Posted by madpoet (anonymous) on June 11, 2008 at 3:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

PLEASE! You can't compare dogs, which are selectively bred to have certain traits and temperaments to humans. Yes, each dog is an unique animal but basic traits are bred in.

Posted by stevenlk (anonymous) on June 11, 2008 at 5:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

madpoet >> traits are bred into them but that WAS BACK THEN. the "WERE" used for pit fighting, bull baiting, and rat baiting, but they were all in the SERVICE of the human. (whom happen to raise them to do so). Yorkies are bred to kill vermin. Daschunds are bred to go into burrows and get badgers. Irish Wolfhounds were bred to take down and kill wolves.(which are more aggressive then the domesticated dogs, But its now the 21st century and WE are breeding them for COMPANIONSHIP. the irresponsible owners that are breeding them backwards for their OWN pleasure to fight and bet on is what is happening. its not the dogs/ breeds fault. its the owners and how they are raised.

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Posted by landofoz (anonymous) on June 11, 2008 at 5:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree with you madpoet it is a thankful thing that pit bulls don't have any bad genetic traits or temperments!!! I do believe that the breed you are thinking of was way back in the day and they quit breeding it and it no longer exists. They already took care of the problem a long time ago. The pit bulls of today are bred to be sweet loving companions, just alot of people who don't know anything about dogs believe that today's pitt bulls are the same but they are nothing like the fighting dogs that you are refering to so you don't have to worry yourself about it anymore. All the genetic trait stuff is all just urban legends and everyone who hears it believes that it is true then they tell someone esle and so on and so on. I believe it is called the snowball effect, it just starts out from one uneducated person and before you know thousands of other people believe the same thing. If you are not a pitt bull owner you really don't have a clue. I don't talk bad about things that I haven't owned before, why? Because I don't know crap about if it is good or not so I just keep my mouth shut like alot of these people on here refuse to do. That one guy in the other article "I got my revolver" what an idiot, is he sure he should own a gun all they were made to do was kill people!!! LOL This town has so many idiots in it they should change the name from Emporia to Smallmindedville, lets just make everything that each person doesn't like illegal.

Posted by landofoz (anonymous) on June 11, 2008 at 5:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

There are alot of people who don't teach their kids how to respect animals, I always see kids poking sticks through a fence at dogs and laughing and teasing them. Barking at them to make the dog bark back. If I were a dog I would want to bite them also guess it isn't the parents fault they must just have been bred with bad traits and temperments, guess we should ban the kids who show aggressive behavior also. Only the kids who are good and do exactly what they are told to do all the time will be allowed to live in this city. Oh wait that is wrong because we are civilized and are only allowed to kill animals that we don't like. We didn't create this Earth we are just guests here and no one should have the right to say what animals should stay and what ones should be killed that is not our place to do, I believe that is another persons job, after all humans are animals also just because we can use tools build city's, and machines we think that we are better than every other animal but that is incorrect all of gods creatures deserve the right to live here. The human race are all like Nazi's we take all of the animals habitats away and they all die because they have no place to live and we cut down all their trees and they have no homes to go to but that is ok to most because we are the Mighty Humans and who cares about the other animals we share this planet with as long as we are alright. It will start with the Pit Bulls, then Dobermans, Rotts, German Shepards. Then what Mastiffs, boxers, blood hounds, great danes. Pretty soon when all of you are done all that will be left are dogs under 10 lbs. because when you pick on them and they get angry all you have to do is kick them off your leg and you will be fine. Because if the Pitt Bulls get banned the media will have to focus there poor reporting to some other breed of dogs so they can fire up the lench mob to ban them also. But I am sure you will make up some kind of excuse to get rid of those dogs also because you are scared of anything that may have a chance of staning up and defending it's self. I look forward to seeing you staning on the street corner with your torch and pitch fork to go on a Pit Bull hunt. :)

Posted by dml (anonymous) on June 11, 2008 at 6:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ok, so based on the argument that animals are only mean because they are mistreated, I do not understand why in my cow herd most of my cattle are very docile and don't mind being touched, but there are a few, that if you get too close to them, they start kicking at you or swinging their head at you and snorting. It seems there is some genetic predisposition to bad temperment, especially since their offspring usually have the same temperment as the parent animals (especially their dams (mothers,) although I have been able to trace it back to their sires (dads)also.)

Posted by Bjnemp (anonymous) on June 11, 2008 at 9:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Whew! That clears up some nasty rumors! For a while there I was actually beginning to believe all those newspaper and TV news reports of people being mauled to death by Pit Bulls. I should have known better. Why would a muscular animal with an inbred penchant to attack and kill, and with jaws exerting 800 pounds of pressure, be dangerous? Sure, they can shred flesh like a garbage disposal and crush bones like a vice, but they are just cuddly little bunnies and wouldn't hurt a fly. I'll feel much safer now as I'm walking and see one racing toward me or I see one charging a smal child playing in his yard.

I'm also glad to know an animal's behavior is not formed by genetics. Now I can get a cute baby lion, or wolfe, and raise it with love and kindness and never have to worry about it attacking one of my children or an innocent citizen.

Besides, who cares if the animal has a history and high propensity toward violence? It's all about me and my lawful right to own the animal. If my sweet little lion kills someone, or disfigures a small child, too bad: it was probably their fault. They were likely teasing it, or they shouldn't have been on the streets anyway.

Posted by stevenlk (anonymous) on June 11, 2008 at 11:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

dml - first off, are your cows domesticated animals that all have human contact and are loyal and do everything they can to try and please you? no. its a cow. not a dog. and they arent raised by mistreated and abused. the bad owners are raising them not being top dog. are playing tug o war games with them are having them fight other dogs to train for dog fighting events.

Bjnemp - your pretty ignorant arent you, wolves and lions are EXOTIC animals and not domesticated. you cant really relate them to dogs. like cats and dogs. you can pet a cat when it WANTS to let you. and you have to please it. a DOG will do everything to please you and give you affection. ALSO this si trying to be a pitbull ban. its not just pit bulls. PEOPLE TALK about them. there are dalmations and all kinds of breeds that TEAR KIDS to shreds. its all STEREOTYPING what we are trying to avoid.

http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Article...
http://www2.hernandotoday.com/content/20...
http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Article...
http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Article...
http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Article...
http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Article...

trying not to waste my time with you but are those pit bulls? there are millions more i can show you but your so hard headed to accept that your wrong....

Posted by slipandslide (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 12:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

http://www.kansascity.com/115/story/6585...

an easy way to end the bad reputation of pit bulls is to keep the dogs under control. arent most dog attacks by dogs that are not penned or on a chain? pit bulls are not the only dogs people are afraid of, but they have the worst reputations, a reputation they have earned along with the help of those who have been breeding and training them to fight.

Posted by Bjnemp (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 2:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ah, Stevenik, my judgemental friend. I would be glad to compare IQs, educations, incomes, or accomplishments with you anytime you choose. I love a sure bet. I'm sorry you feel the need to put others in danger just so you can get some masochistic cheap thrill by harboring a dangerous animal in your home. And what's this bogus "exotic" argument you pulled out of the joke bag? Any animal, and I mean any, can be "domesticated", including Pit Bulls, lions, and wolves. The point is, for how long and at what risk? Sorry, Stevenik: you're fighting a losing battle.

Posted by stevenlk (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 4:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Any animal, and I mean any, can be "domesticated", including Pit Bulls, lions, and wolves

any animal CAN but lions wolves and bears ARENT. these are. they are just brought up by the wrong people because the animal laws here arent enforcing registering vaccinating ect ect ect.

BTW i dont have a pitbull i just know and understand a blanket legislation is the wrong way to go. it HASNT workd and never WILL. take a look at CO. they adopted the legislation in 1990. it was pointless.

so what lets compare incomes , iq's, education, and acomplishments. what do u do , what have you done , what do you got???

Posted by TacoBellB (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 7:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

That's a broad statement to say any animal can be domesticated - I'd like to see that proven. stevenlk - are you really saying that you could take any wild animal and domesticate it so it wouldn't attack? ever?

If you two would like to borrow my measuring stick, let me know. :)

Posted by madpoet (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 8:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm not trying to start a witch hunt or ban pit bulls. But it sure is strange that I personally have been threatened by more pit bulls than any other breed. We have several that run loose in my area now that will growl and charge at you. The owners don't live near my home so I can't say how they're treated other than they have free run of the section. I have a small child and these dogs have been in my yard. Should I assume they're sweet and won't attack and maul me or my child? I'm not that trusting. I believe too many people still breed pit bulls to be aggressive. I don't know how many generations it would take to erase an inborn trait. Probably more than we've seen since pit bulls were in a bull ring. Especially since some jerks think it's macho to have a big bad dog only they can handle.

Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 9:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

What I have a difficult time understanding is the way Pit Bull advocates and defenders ignore the public safety concerns.

I've been around Pit Bulls, and while it's true that they can be very affectionate, etc, there is no denying that they are an extremely powerful animal. When I was doing my graduate work in Kansas City a fellow student, who owned two Pit Bulls, applied the same reasoning I see over and over here. His dogs were safe, well domesticated, incapable of doing any harm. In time one of the dogs mauled his youngest daughter. Only then did he do something about the problem he had created.

Further, the other cases where they have mauled people aren't fiction. They're very real. Earlier this week a Kansas City man was awarded $7.5MM in a judgement against a Pit Bull owner whose dog had mauled the man and his wife.

I think the same reasoning should apply to any type of vicious dog. If a Lab mauls a child or a senior citizen, the owner should be held accountable. Etc, etc, etc.

I'd like to think that Pit Bull owners and advocates would work with the community to solve a problem that is only going to get worse with time. The ticking time bomb will go off. A young child on the way to school will be badly mauled. A senior citizen going to his/her mailbox will be attacked and badly injured. It will happen! Given that, I'd like to think that Pit Bull owners would find a way to support the community and solve the problem. Apparently that is too much to expect. All we seem to get is rhetoric telling us how unenlightened we are. We need, and expect, better!

Posted by CassieJo (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 9:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Net -- Further, the other cases where they have mauled people aren't fiction. They're very real. Earlier this week a Kansas City man was awarded $7.5MM in a judgement against a Pit Bull owner whose dog had mauled the man and his wife.

It was a GROUP of dogs .....maybe you need to read the article again ....

Alan L. Hill, who suffered severe injuries when viciously attacked BY A GROUP OF Pit bulls two years ago, was awarded $7.25 million by a Jackson County judge Tuesday.

Maybe you can explain the difference in "a dog" and a "group of dogs". Obviously there is a difference!

Posted by CassieJo (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 10:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

http://www.badrap.org/rescue/

Owning ...
http://www.badrap.org/rescue/owning.cfm

Myths
http://www.badrap.org/rescue/myths.cfm

http://www.pitprintsrescue.com/html/bree...

Posted by CassieJo (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 10:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Aren't Pit Bulls MEAN and VICIOUS?

No more vicious than golden retrievers, beagles or other popular dogs! In a recent study of 122 dog breeds by the American Temperament Testing Society (ATTS), pit bulls achieved a passing rate of 83.9%. That's as good or better than beagles ... 78.2%, and golden retrievers ... 83.2%. How did your favorite breed do? See for yourself: www.ATTS.org

Posted by CassieJo (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 10:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Pits and Kids ....
http://pitbulls.iwarp.com/photo.html

While everyone is searching for negative information on the dogs why not search for positive things as well.... I could post positive links all day long ....

What about the guy that was attacked by an AKITA in emporia the other day??? Why didnt this make the headlines????

Posted by methusla (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 10:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Stevenlk- Your statement that any animal can be domesticated, especially lions, etc. is not entirely true.
You or anyone cannot completely domesticate (tame) a wild animal, because the wild animal will always retain the wild nature no matter how tame or domesticated it may seem, futher a wild animal is very unpredictable nomatter how tame it may seem and may turn on its owner (trainer) etc. at any time with no warning what-so-ever. Case in point, remember when Roy of Siegfried and Roy was attacked on stage by a white tiger that he had raised from a cub, the animal had not been abused, mistreated, etc. and to this day noone knows why the animal attacked Roy. Also any Zoo keeper, worker or Vet will tell you wild animals do not make good pets because of the unpredictability of their wild nature.
Also domesticated dogs, cats, etc. only became domesticated pets through 1,000s' of years of human contact and breeding to make them the cute cuddly pets they are today, however a few bad, abusive and stupid pet owners have managed to give most all pet breeds a bad rap and it is these type pet owners who should be punished along with their unfortunate animals.

Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 12:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

CassieJo

You've really missed the point. Was I supposed to feel better because the man in Kansas City was attacked by a pack of Pit Bulls versus one? That only serves to re-inforce the points I was trying to make.

My daughter of my friend in graduate school was mauled by a family Pit Bull. It's wasn't a Lab or a Welsh Corgi or a Poodle. It was a Pit Bull and it did terrible damage to the little girl's body and her psyche.

Pit Bulls are extremely strong animals. Is that a correct statement? The public deserves protection from vicious animals. Is that a correct statement? Owners should bear monetary and legal responsibility for attacks on people. Is that a correct statement?

I've never said that other breeds of dogs don't do vicious things. I am saying that I believe the city needs to either enforce the ordinances on vicious animals, whether Pit Bull, Akita, Poodle, Jack Russell, snake, alligator, etc., or draft new ordinances that will send the message to the public that the city is serious about this issue. I've said that this is a ticking time bomb, and it is. I've said that Pit Bull owners and advocates need to work with the public to ensure, as much as is humanly possible, that the public, particularly the children and elderly, are safe from the types of maulings and attacks that happen. The problem with too many Pit Bull owners and advocates is that they refuse to step back and see that this is a public safety issue first and a pet owner's rights issue second. I'd like to think that they care about the safety of the people of this city, especially those most vulnerable when these attacks occur, but after reading reams and reams of comments on these forums I must say I have my doubts.

The lines are clearly drawn on this issue. Those of us who want the public to be safe are going to continue complaining and petioning city government until something is done to satisfy the public's right to safety.

Posted by stevenlk (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 1:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

TacoBellB i didnt say that. i was saying DOGS are domesticated animals. so you cant compare them to lions and tigers. also dogs will do anything to please you will other animals wont. a dog is loyal and would never turn on its master.

Posted by stevenlk (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 1:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

methusla my fault. i was QUOTING it from above from Bjnemp ... i was saying. they can. but THEY ARENT. it takes so many generations to which is thousands. .. im not saying they are. it was myfault i left out the quotes. so let Bjnemp know that. Bjnemp is trying to compare a DOMESTICATED LOYAL dog to lions bears and tigers. they are exotic. meaning they arent domesticated. thanks.

i think the city should have every dog owner vaccinate, register, microchip/tattoo their dogs so they are help responsible for the dogs actions.

Posted by TacoBellB (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 1:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

stevenlk -
I see where you explained that you misspoke above. Did you also misspeak when you said that
"a dog is loyal and would never turn on its master"?

I'm just curious because you are wrong if you believe that. Regardless of how loyal a dog is, it has basic instincts and will act on those.

Posted by laughoutloud (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 1:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

i was attacked by a cat

Posted by KUtriSIS (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 1:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I really hate to get started with this again but I can't help but say what I am going to. And if it doesn't help with some understanding on what REALLY needs to be done than you really are NOT listening or just being ignorant, stubborn, and smallminded.

I own a Pit Mix. I also own a Foxhound Terrier. My dogs are best friends and I have never had a problem with one or the other starting a fight with each other. They have always loved other animals too, not just themselves. This will all come down to the irresponsible pet owners who let there animals run loose around the neighborhoods, because that is where the main portion of attacks come from. Not all animals that are loose are going to be mean. They could have just gotten away from their owner and are the sweetest thing but it is still a matter of pet responsibility to keep your animal, sweet and loving or "gentle as a bear", in the proper place for the safety of everyone. This is no matter what breed you own, Great Dane or Yorkie.

So, down the road is the definition of a VERY IRRESPONSIBLE OWNER. They know that their dog has always gotten loose and that it has attacked before because of the conditions they keep it in but still they don't care. Since this dog has attacked my dogs three times now in my own yard, they are very skepticle of other animals other than themselves. It has to do with a self-protective nature and a trust issue, you know all animals, us included, have this. I have to take two times the responsibility for my animals. Now I am not ignorant and I know that dogs, all dogs, can attack. This is why I take extra attention to keeping my animals safe from others but at the same time I don't want to have my animals harm others either for any reason. This is where intolerance and ignorance MUST be thrown out the window and realize what needs to be done.

Please understand what I am getting at. If people go off banning breeds it will still come down to these irresponsible pet owners to find another animal to abuse in the same way. Yes, animals that attack should be punished, ALONG WITH their owners, to the extent of what would be done if a person stole from a store or murdered some one. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE realize that banning is not going to solve the problem with dog attacks, no matter what breed you ban. In all honesty, the above mentioned Boxer has gotten loose and attacked so many times that it should have been put down a long time ago but what keeps happening? Animal control just returns the animal to the owners. Now, what does that tell us? Obviously our animal control is not helping with the matter and they are just letting these irresponsible owners think it is OK.

Posted by KUtriSIS (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 2:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

HAHA...cats can be very vicious and those claws can rip someone's face apart. Hey, I have an idea, let's ban them! j/k

Posted by Bjnemp (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 2:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"A dog is loyal and would never turn on it's master"? I thought I had heard the complete portfolio of slanted Pit Bull hype and propaganda but that statement takes the cake. It also proves the point that Pit Bull owners are deluded and irresponsible. Thousands of dogs, good dogs, turn on their masters every year. Fortunately, most just get bitten. Pit Bull owners don't fair as well.

Posted by KUtriSIS (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 2:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Bjnemp >>>>>> I can't take it anymore. You claim to know so much about these animals, facts and details, but all the while you are just one of those people that has bought into the hype and myths created by other people just like you. Next time you decide to be "Mr. Right on Everything", maybe you should do a little research before you stick your foot in your mouth. Proof in point to the following regarding your early comment of PSI in their jaws:

Dr. I. Lerh Brisbin of the University of Georgia states stated, To the best of our knowledge, there are no published scientific studies that would allow any meaningful comparison to be made of the biting power of various breeds of dogs. There are, moreover, compelling technical reasons why such data describing biting power in terms of ‘pounds per square inch’ can never be collected in a meaningful way. All figures describing biting power in such terms can be traced to either unfounded rumor or, in some cases, to newspaper articles with no foundation in factual data. (From the ADBA booklet, “Discover the American Pit Bull Terrier.)

And just another little point to help everyone with the above loyal dogs don't turn on their master quote.

"Dogs, as a species, do not perform behaviors “just because”. There are always reasons for behavior, and when aggression becomes a problem the reasons can be such things as improper handling, lack of socialization or training, a misreading of dog behavior by the owner, or, rarely, disease. Aggression, when it presents in pet dogs, follows specific patterns. First occur warning signs, then more warning signs, and finally, when those signs are continually ignored or misinterpreted, the dog resorts to using its teeth. When an owner is startled by a sudden, aggressive outburst, it is because they have been unaware of problems that were brewing. This is true of all dogs, not just Pit Bulls. Pit Bulls, indeed no dogs, “turn” on their owners."

Posted by methusla (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 3:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

First, I would like to appologize to stephenlk for seemingly jumping all over you for your misquote, my fault !
I would also like to say that this whole good animal bad animal phobia is, I believe , because now a days the irr
esposible, abusive animal owners with an " I don't care or I don't have to abide by public or common sense law, seem to outnumber the responsible animal owners who do abide by the public and common sense laws and are not abusive, cruel, train their animal to be vicious and think it's cute, macho or o.k. to have a vicious animal.
Just a little incite into how an animal can be mistreated into being vicious. I have a next door neighbor who has a rotweiler that is kept in a totally enclosed privacy fenced pen day in and day out, the only way the poor animal can see out of this pen is through the gate. I don't know wheather or not the animals' pen is cleaned or not, sometimes from the smell, I would guess, not very often, anyway every time I mow the yard the poor animal just goes crazy and I hope that it cannot knock the pen walls down to get at me. I have tried to talk to the dog in a low friendly voice to try and calm it, but it just carries on like its out of control and it may sound silly but I truly feel sorry for the poor animal and yet I really fear it.
Just a little example of how a possibly wonderful dog may be a risk to anyone if it were to get loose, because of abuse and neglect.

Posted by Bjnemp (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 3:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

KUtruSIS: Forgive me. I didn't realize "no dogs turn on their owners". I will pass that revelation on to my friend in Topeka, my neighbor across the street, my daughter, and the elderly lady in Wisconsin who was mauled to death by her two Pit Bulls. All were attacked by their own loving dogs for totally unexplained reasons. I'm sure they will all be relieved to know that KUtriSIS assured us dogs "never turn on their owners". Thanks for sharing your wealth of biased misinformation.

Posted by CassieJo (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 3:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

*Pit bull is NOT a breed. It's a generic term often used to describe all dogs with similar traits and characteristics often known by the public as "pit bulls".

http://www.pbrc.net/faq.html

How can we tell the difference? We can't really. We can only try to guess the breed based on subtle characteristics. Note that even experts can't always tell if a Pit Bull is an APBT, an AST or a SBT.

Posted by CassieJo (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 3:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

http://www.pbrc.net/

Posted by momof3 (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 3:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Bjnemp seems to like to sterotype people as well....

"I would be glad to compare IQs, educations, incomes, or accomplishments with you anytime you choose. I love a sure bet." What kind of statement is that?

My dog is in a 12 foot by 6 foot by 6 foot kennel...anchored to a concrete slab, with concrete anchors and his kennel door is padlocked. He is NEVER out of his kennel without being on his leash.

I do not do this because he is mean...I do this because I am a responsible pet owner. He also has a nice house and is given food, water, exercise and love everyday.

I follow all existing laws and take all the necessary precautions to avoid putting myself or my dog in any situation that I do not feel comfortable in.

Also, we have changed our walking schedule many times to avoid the loose dogs...all breeds that run rampant around Emporia after 5:00 pm. We have been attacked more than once by vicious small dogs...

The last one the owners sat on their porch and laughed because my "big bad dog" would not defend himself. These people don't deserve to own any animal...JMO

I am a responsible pet owner and yet some of you would have my dog banned.....

If you are willing to compare IQ's and education with people, you must consider yourself intellegent, so surely you can see that there is no reason for my dog to be banned. You can surely see that I am responsible and go out of my way to make sure no one feels threatened by my dog.

Please tell me what you think I am doing wrong....how am I being the sterotype....on parole or probation....drive a big truck with big tires....own alot of guns.....the list goes on and on.....

Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 3:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I can only speak for myself about this issue. Here's what I believe is a reasonable approach.

Pets should be licensed. Owners should bear responsibility for what they do. They should also carry liability insurance to cover damage, injury,hospital bills, etc. They should be expected to abide by the rules. There should be sanctions if they don't

To me it's not much different than what we do with our cars. Most people in this city own cars. They have to license them. They have to insure them. They are expected to operate them safely and abide by the rules outlined by the state or muncipality.

Most of understand that, while a car is a necessity, they also understand that they are operating a piece of powerful equipment that can do great damage. Most of us abide by the rules and things are almost always okay. But, occasionally, there are accidents. Most of these aren't intentional. But there are times when law enforcement has to deal with "accidents" that really aren't accidents at all. Some refuse to obey the rules and drive while intoxicated. Some drive far beyond posted speed limits. Some pass stopped school busses. It's difficult enough when accidents happen under the best of circumstances, but when people deliberately flaunt the rules and someone is injured or killed penalities are applied. In some cases licenses are suspended and the vehicle is impounded. In most cases heavy fines are levied. Even for those who have insurance rates are increased. In some cases, the irresponsible driver is sent to prison.

I think it's reasonable to expect drivers and car owners to abide by these rules. And, the rules generally work. Insurance covers in cases of real accidental loss and the law covers cases for those who flaunt the rules.

I think the same types of standards should be applied to animals like Pit Bulls or other powerful animals. I don't think it's unreasonable for the public to expect the owners of these pets to act responsibly. Requiring licenses/registration, updated immunizations, and insurance are good starts. Further, those who own particularly powerful animals need to be on legal notice that they will be held accountable when these animals attack and maim, injure, or kill someone. The pet should be "impounded" in these cases and the owners should be subject to legal sanctions/penalties and those injured should be able to receive justice in the form of monetary awards or the knowledge that the owner has been given a sentence and the animal has been removed so that it cannot inflict more damage.

Posted by KUtriSIS (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 3:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Bjnemp >>>>>> Seriously, you are being very ignorant and your making this all of too easy. If you would read my statement on dogs attacking owners you would realize that I did NOT say they don't attack. The fact is that there are ALWAYS warning signs and many, many people overlook them. All I can say is you must not read very well because I clearly stated what I had to say. I'm sorry if it was not readable to you. I know you are wanting me to get upset and down to your level but I just don't think that is possible. This is like trying to win the special olympics. Believe me this makes me happier than you think it is upsetting me because you have called Pit Bull owners stupid, ignorant, and all sorts of other names but when you point one finger there are three more pointing back at you. Maybe you should read my post again and then stick that other foot in your mouth. Would you like some water? Thanks for the entertainment.

Posted by CassieJo (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 3:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I have yet to figure out why when bj's daughter was trapped in her car because of vicious dogs .... why wasnt animal control or the police called instead of someone with a permit to carry a gun taking it upon himself to take care of it.

The thought of people walking our streets with guns bothers me more then a vicious dog! If she was in such a horrible position dont you think it would have been more wise to contact the police dept instead of taking matters into your own hands .... you better have a good reason to pull a gun on anything or anyone .... sounds to me like these people who have carry permits should also have rules to flollow ..... I doubt that one of the rules is to threaten anything that moves or flexes its muscles .... sounds like to me you have your gun permit for all the wrong reasons. Sounds like another bully on the streets with a gun waiting for a chance to pull the trigger.

Posted by CassieJo (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 4:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Pit Bull Detection Dogs
http://www.lawdogsusa.org/otherdogs.html...

Law Dogs USA
http://www.lawdogsusa.org/whypitbulls1.h...

http://www.lawdogsusa.org/GEAR.html

http://www.lawdogsusa.org/ourdogs.html

Posted by CassieJo (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 4:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

http://www.kold.com/Global/story.asp?S=8...
Pit Bulls As Police Dogs

Especially when it comes to Pit Bulls, with the surge of Pit Bulls being seized from dog fighting rings or breeders raising and training dogs to fight. Jessup found four recruits from the latest dod fighting breeder bust here in Tucson in February. When they graduate from her school they will go to an officer and live with his family at no cost. Little by little she says the idea of Pit Bulls are police dogs is catching on. "We have several working in Washington on ferries and in several counties right now. At first there was a lot of prejudice but now that the officers have the dogs they don't want any other dog," says Jessup.

Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 4:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'll let Bjnemp speak for himself.

But, about six weeks ago my wife was outside and a Pit Bull, owned by someone around the corner from us, was loose and approaching our house. I was inside and heard her calling for me. When I came out the dog was coming closer. It got close to our driveway and stopped, then started growling. We both went inside and tried calling animal control. Since it was after hours all we got was a recording to leave a message. We then called the police. They never came. I think the dog stayed around our house for about fifteen minutes. We also called our neighbor who has two small children and told her what was going on so that she would make sure the kids didn't go out while the dog was still there.

I don't believe for a second that things should be like this in our neighborhoods.

As I said, I'll leg Bjnemp speak for himself. I'd like to think that the owners and advocates of these animals could see that it's not unreasonable for the rest of us to expect being able to walk the streets of this city safely, but that seems to be too much to ask. I can tell you that if a Pit Bull ever attacks me, my wife, or my grandchildren when they visit. I will ensure that the owner of the animal is subjected to the maximum legal and monetary penalties.

Now, I don't own a gun, nor do I intend to. But I do intend to do all I can to ensure that city statues protect me, my neighbors, and my family. Further, I don't think that the public should have to wait until something very tragic happens before action is taken. We should be able to walk the streets of this city freely without having to worry about being attacked by a very powerful dog.

I'm still bothered by idea that too many don't seem to really care about public safety. That's the issue here. A lot of us aren't willing to wait until something awful happens. We believe that the community has a legitmate right to expect the city to be pro-active in this regard, especially since so many Pit Bull owners and advocates seem to believe that their rights trump the rights of the rest of the community.

I've outlined what I believe is a reasonable approach. If we can't get the owners and advocates of these animals to agree on what seems to be a sensible approach, then there is no room for dialogue.

Posted by TacoBellB (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 5:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Net - I think you have offered a good analogy and reasonable ideas on this. Now the question is, will anyone listen?

KUtriSis - My dog bit me and there were NO warning signs - no growling, no nothing and I am definitely not an abusive owner, so your statement that there are ALWAYS warning signs doesn't hold true.

Also, the guy you quoted about biting power - I would dare to guess that there are just as many scientists who will argue the exact opposite. I'm not a math genius, but I would think with science and math combined that they would be able to figure out the power of a bite - at least I've heard of them being able to do that with a shark attack, so why wouldn't they be able to do it with a dog?

Posted by Bjnemp (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 8:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Momof3: Don't comment unless you know what you are talking about. Stevenik called me "pretty ignorant" and I was just replying to him... and just him. Are you his mom? If not, butt out.

Posted by jennienbj (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 9:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow. I just got to say we have a lot of cruel people in emporia and I reallly hope that I never run into any of you against pit bulls. I am a proud owner of 2 of them. I love to hang out with them and take them for dogs and a lot of people can't believe how dogs act. It is crap that everyone believes it is the breed. I allow my dogs to be raised around people of all ages, color, and all different animals. I also have two cats that are indoors and are around the dogs when we are at work. I have never come home and my cats were hurt. Also I went for a walk the other night and two blocks from my house a loose dog was coming after us. My male pit looked at it and started pulling me the other way. I told the owner that emporia had a leash law and if his dog came after me again that I would call the cops. An akita tried jumping out of its pen and he was going to eat us if he got close enough to us. I am not saying that pit bulls can be bad and poeple can't have their own opinions. But if I were to get by a different breed of a dog and turned it in, everyone knows for sure that it would not be in the paper and nobody would be on the gazette posting blogs.

Tonight when the weather got bad, we took our dogs and went to my boss's house. She has a 2 yr old pug and a 16 week old american bulldog. So her two dogs, and my two dogs were together for 3 hours. None of the dogs fought with each other, they played and played and played. Now my dogs are dead tired. My sister stopped by with her 10 month old snauzer and no dog tried to eat that dog. So it is not the pit bull, it can be any breed that could bite you. I think it is funny when people start to cross the street or say stuff when we are walking our dogs. I do not say anything back to them, we mind our own business.

There are so many people that live in my neighborhood that I could turn into animal services but don't, because for one I am not a nark and two I do not want people to think that I own pit bulls but can rag on all other dogs. If you are a pet owner and you leave your dog on a chain or tie-out all day long, you are a terrible pet owner. That is when the dogs get mean because they have a 5 foot radious to play in. If anyone on here wants to know where the dogs are that will come after you when you are out walking, I will give you addresses, then you can decide to call the cops. But if I get bitten by any dog, you better be prepared to go to court and lose a case. If my dog bites someone, I am liable and I will pay for the hospital bills. Not a big deal.

Posted by jennienbj (anonymous) on June 12, 2008 at 9:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

KUtriSIS~ I completely agree with you. If we ban certain breeds of dogs, then why aren't we "banning" the sexual predators going after our children, or the murderers, or people that have attempted to murder someone and get away with it. Animals get one chance, in most cases, not all, and if they bite someone normally they are put to sleep. So why do we turn loose the predators and murderers from prison after ten years because they are "reformed" or "good behavior." That is crud. If someone murdered or attempted to murder someone close to me, you better spend the rest of your life behind bars. We are not afraid to put animals to sleep, but the second someone thinks of putting an inmate on deathrow, it is a big debate and normally they never go on deathrow. They get to live a tax free, paid for life, with cable, 3 meals a day and most of the time air conditioning and heat? Not fair is it? I do not think so.

Posted by methusla (anonymous) on June 13, 2008 at 9:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Please, everyone here really needs to log on to the "Wikipedia Free Encyclopedia" website and click on or type in "Pit Bull". I am sure everyone here will gain a special insight into how the term "Pit Bull" origionally started as a sport and how many breeds of dogs are put into the catagory of Pit Bull and pay particular attention to the section called " Animal Baiting " and see if the info rings any bells.
This really is a very insightful and informative website.

Posted by CassieJo (anonymous) on June 13, 2008 at 10:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ten Facts About Pit Bulls Every One Should Know

http://www.pitbulllovers.com/pit-bulls-t...

Posted by CassieJo (anonymous) on June 13, 2008 at 10:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Myths and Facts

http://www.happypitbull.com/basics/myths...

Posted by CassieJo (anonymous) on June 13, 2008 at 10:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Where Heroes Are The Pits

http://www.forpitssake.org/

Posted by sunshine72198 (anonymous) on June 13, 2008 at 11:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ten Facts About Pit Bulls Every One Should Know
1. Pit Bulls are commonly used as therapy dogs. Whether they are visiting a senior care facility or helping someone recover from an emotional accident, Pit Bulls are making a mark as outstanding therapy dogs.
2. Pit Bulls are used in Search and Rescue work. One example of well known SAR Pit Bulls is Kris Crawford and her dogs. Kris and her dogs have helped save the lives of many people during their efforts. http://www.ForPitsSake.org
3. Pit Bulls serve as narcotic and bomb sniffing dogs. One Pit Bull, Popsicle (named that because he was found in an old freezer) has the largest recorded single drug find in Texas history. Read more about Popsicle here. Including how he found over 3,000 lbs of cocaine in Hildago, Texas.
4. Pit Bulls are great with kids. They weren't referred to as the "nanny's dog" for nothing that's for sure.
5. Pit Bulls are not human aggressive. The American Pit Bull Terrier as a breed is not human aggressive. In fact, quite the opposite is true of the breed. They are gentle and loving dogs. Like any dog individuals can be unsound and have behavior problems.
6. The Pit Bull was so popular in the early 1900's they were our mascot not only in World War One, but World War Two as well. They were featured on recruiting and propoganda posters during this time period.
7. Sgt. Stubby. A Pit Bull war hero. Stubby was wounded in action twice, he saved his entire platoon by warning them of a poison gas attack and he single handedly captured a German spy.
8. Pete the Pup on the orginal Little Rascals was a Pit Bull.
9. Pit Bulls score an 83.4% passing rate with the American Temperament Test Society. That's better than the popular Border Collie (a breed who scores 79.6%). View the ATTS stats here.
10. They are dogs not killing machines.

Posted by KUtriSIS (anonymous) on June 13, 2008 at 1:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

jennienbj >>>>>> My point exactly. The problem that is occurring with the majority of people that are getting stuck in their own stubborn ways of saying they hate pit bulls and nothing will change their mind are only being narrow-minded. They don't even realize that there are responsible owners out there like you and me that have very good dogs BUT we also realize that if something or someone is hurt by our dogs that we ARE responsible and we WILL take the responsibility for it. There are a lot more good people with good pets out there than bad ones and when people are attacking ALL of "us" or "them" they are not even giving the good people and their animals a chance. It's like the whole bad apple saying. Well, there is no need to throw out that whole bushel of apples, just wash away the bad stuff. To do that we need to get to the irresponsible owners first (bad apples). The unfortunate dogs that have been mistreated and abused by them probably won't stand a chance but many more animals will suffer the same if we leave that bad apple in there and don't do anything about it. Something does need to be done soon but it's not the solution that a lot of people are coming up with.

Posted by Bjnemp (anonymous) on June 13, 2008 at 2:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

KutriSIS: You make good sense. I'm still not convinced Pit Bulls are a real smart choice as a pet, but I have to admit your arguments have softened my approach to the problem. You're arguments have been intelligent and civil, unlike a few of the other more militant and irrational Pit Bull advocates.

I love dogs, as you obviously do, so I would support laws in our city that did not ban any particular breed, but promised very stiff fines for irresponsible pet owners who allow their pets to roam and attack people. The ordinances should include heavy fines for violators and restitution for victims plus confiscation of a violent animal for second offenses, or first offenses if the attack was extremely violent, or worse. That is, if your dogs bites me it (you) deserves a second chance. If it tries to kill me, your puppy goes to doggy heaven and you file bankruptcy before you begin your jail sentence.

If we could have strict laws to protect citizens, and the ability to enforce those laws (therein lies another big issue), then I have no problem with what breed of dog you own. The issue, bottom line, is not about Pit Bulls, or Rotteilers, or Cocker Spaniels. It's about public safety and peace of mind. You sound like a responsible pet owner. Let's pass laws to ensure that all local pet owners are as responsible as you so our streets, our children, and my leathery old hide, will be safe.

Posted by KUtriSIS (anonymous) on June 13, 2008 at 2:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Bjnemp >>>>>> I very much appreciate you trying to understand my point. Yes, I am a very responsible pet owner and I will take any measure possible to insure the safety of my animals AND the safety of the public, both with the same passion. I am not that ignorant to think that nothing could ever happen just because it hasn't. Like I said I take full responsibility for my pets and that includes their safety or the safety of others. I am not going to give up my pets because of something they and I have not done. This is exactly my reasoning on pushing for better inforcement on ownership part and I know from personal experience that this is lacking here very much.

Another point I must make is that I love my dogs, both of them, no matter what breed they are so that is not saying that I will choose not to own any other dog but an APBT, obviously I have 2 and only one is. I saved my dog when he was 4 months old because of irresponsible breeders who dumped him. He was about to be put down when I walked through the shelter cause something just told me that I needed a pet. It wasn't the choice that he was a pit bull that made me pick him, not at all. It was the choice I made because I knew I could give life to him. Well, that and the way he looked at me broke my heart but i'm a softy for ALL animals. He has been the best decision I have made in a long time. He will always be my best friend and he knows that because I take care of him. That's just a little more knowledge on me but again I truly appreciate you trying to be more understanding of what I am trying prove here.

Posted by KUtriSIS (anonymous) on June 13, 2008 at 2:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

CassieJo >>>>>> I must comment on your early post about concealed carry permits. I quote you as "sounds to me like these people who have carry permits should also have rules to flollow ..... I doubt that one of the rules is to threaten anything that moves or flexes its muscles". As for the second part of this quote you are right. There are rules and for anyone that is going about things this way they are not following them. As for the first part though, I understand what you are trying to say but you may want to rephrase and rethink it a little bit because you have kind of made it sound like you are bunching EVERYONE that has a concealed carry permit in the same group. I do know people that have them and they are very responsible. They follow the rules and do not flash around the fact that they have it. I am just trying to keep another argument from getting started and I am not attacking you but I think I am being a calmer person in saying this first before some one else with less patience decides to cut in. Just know what it sounds like you are saying and that what it sounds like is not true. So hopefully this helps clear it up for the other readers also. Thanks

Posted by momof3 (anonymous) on June 13, 2008 at 3:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You make me laugh Bjnemp.

Just so you know, I am not stevenlk's mom.

I did however take my dog from my son. I believe in my heart that my son got this dog for most of the stereotypical reasons....if a mom can't be honest about her son, who can...

I was not about to have this animal become what some people make them.

I have had him for 2 years now and love him dearly. When he was 9 months old he was stolen out of his kennel.....I forgot to lock it. I had flyers printed and posted all over this town...and thank the good lord above, got a call telling me where he was.

The police were less than entusiastic about going to the house to get my dog. When they met me there, they said "These people have alot of "Pits"..we have been here before"

They went in, came out later and said my dog was not in there...right after they left...the owners opened the door and out came my dog...running for his life. He had been beat and I doubt if he had been given food or water.

I called EPD and they came to my house and then said "We saw that dog, but are you sure it is yours?" Then did nothing to the people that had him....so typical.

Very long story, perhaps of no interest to you, but you will see that I love and care about this animal. To my other children and I he is a family member, just like our cats.

I have lived my entire life with cats, dogs, horses and all the other typical farm animals. I love animals, but I also value human life and others rights.

So again I ask you to look at the precautions I take and if you find fault with them, please let me know.

Posted by KUtriSIS (anonymous) on June 13, 2008 at 3:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Momof3 >>>>>>> I must say I don't know the exact feeling but this is the typical problem I am having with the loose dog and it's owners down the road. Nothing is getting done about it. I fear now more than ever that it may be because they are not worried about my dog so when I call they don't care. That's the impression I get anyway.

TO EVERYONE >>>>>>> What can we do to solve this type of problem? Is it possible to work together on this to do the right thing or is this going to be another fight between people?

Posted by momof3 (anonymous) on June 13, 2008 at 4:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

KUtriSIS,

I feel they don't care about my dog because of his breed, but that is just my opinion. I am ashamed to say that I have even gone as far as saying this very thing to the dispatch person that answered the phone.

I don't pretend to know the workload of EPD, but if they have been to a house several times for problems with dogs why is nothing done?

If they keep getting calls about the same loose dogs from the same areas, why is nothing done?

They don't even seem to care about cruelty to animals. My poor baby had very prominent marks of abuse all over his head and back. It took a very long time for him to overcome his fear of everything.....he was very spooked and with good reason.

I as well can provide numerous addresses where dogs are almost always loose.

I had said earlier that I think of my dog as a family member. That is true so like a child who I am responsible for, legally and financially, until they are 18, I am, and accept, responsibility, legally and financially for my dog until his time here on earth is over.

My ONLY problem with some of the people that post is they want to group all of us and our dogs into one category. I agree with most everything else they have to say.

Posted by jennienbj (anonymous) on June 13, 2008 at 10:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

momof3, I believe I helped you find your dog a year ago or so. Was it the red nose pit? Also I will give you addresses of the loose dogs in my neighborhood. 9th and east street always has loose dogs and 9th and whitter. I walk the same route every time we walk and we always have to be careful with where we walk and what time.

I think something should be done with all loose dogs, any breed.I also believe that you should be issued a fine if your dogs are caught running loose. Our cops should be able to do this and help us with the laws. It is crap that you can call the cops and then nothing gets done, unless a pit attacks. Hello, why is this the only way to get anyones attention? If a dog ever bites me, I am just going to call it in as a pit attack and then when the cops get there I will be like " I was mistaken it was a poodle." Then it will make the paper and have some awareness that pits are not the only dogs that attack people.

Posted by glarson (Gwen Larson) on June 14, 2008 at 9:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Sorry I'm a bit late, but we'll be closing this down and moving the discussion along:

http://www.emporiagazette.com/forums/ope...