Bjnemp (anonymous) says...

You are so right. I live in Emporia and always made good money with exceptional benefits, as did several people who worked under me and who also live here. However, our employer was in Seattle. Emporians have become acclimated to thinking ten bucks an hour is "good" money. The truth is, pay below 40K is bare minimum in today's economic environment. 50K is decent, 60K is good, and above that is getting into some real money. A husband and wife both earning 50K per year can get along okay. Jobs like that are out there, but not in Emporia.

June 4, 2008 at 4:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

flexj66801 (anonymous) says...

The city won't stand up for better paying jobs because they themselves don't pay very well. You are so right Bjnemp, The idea that "$10" an hour is good pay has become the staple of almost all employers here (including the city). Its sad that most people have to leave Emporia to make a decent wage. But its reassuring to know that better employers are as close as 50 miles down the turnpike!

June 4, 2008 at 6:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

truelovecharlie (anonymous) says...

It's all in your perspective. A husband and wife that make $50,000 combined and not making it, are living beyond their means. I have said in many comments on in these forums that people are greedy. They want more car than they need, they want more house than they need....I prefer going to auctions, yard sales, bartering and thrift stores to get many of my wants and desires. My wife and I drive 10 year old vehichles, but they are still as good as new and we owe no one for them. We live in a very nice house that I purchased at an estate sale for $18,000 that occupies 1/2 a city block and has a 2 car attached garage. It is all the house we need, not more nor less, just right. Our total fixed expenses are around $1200 a month. That is only $16,000 a year to live and we live well. I just purchased new livingroom furniture, recently bought a new bedroom suite and am soon to remodel the entire kitchen. Coveting the things of the rich is what gets people in over their heads. When you want to live like a rich person, you have to work long and hard to pay for all the extra LUXURIES. I much prefer to live simply and have no worries. Don't get me wrong, I used to want everything and the best of it; in the long run you end up with nervous breakdowns, strokes, heart attacks and take none of it with you. 'Tis better to live simply and enjoy life than to slave for material possessions that are here today, gone tomorrow. 15 years used to be a very long time to pay for a house; now 30 is the norm. A new car would take you 3 years to pay off, now you can finance it for 8 years. As the economy turns sour, it is those with a healthier outlook at what is truly important that will survive the best. Those that are mortgaged and over-mortgaged will lose everything and have nothing to show for all the years they slaved away for those material possessions.

June 4, 2008 at 7:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

flexj66801 (anonymous) says...

I suppose you did all that on a $10 an hour salary? I am glad you're happy with life. But please consider that when wages remain low in a town or area, Its usually to the benefit of the employer & not the employees.

June 4, 2008 at 9:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Bjnemp (anonymous) says...

Truelovecharlie: You are a better money manager than I. My wife and I have been making 90 to 110K per year and we don't live beyond our means or buy (many) luxury items. We live simply and have few worries. Keep in mind, though, that we have saved 28% of every cent we made for many years. 15% goes to 401Ks, 5% to Roth IRAs, 3% to self directed IRAs, and 5% to purchase company stock through payroll deduction. That takes a chunk. Then taxes take about 40%. That leaves about 33%, or 33K to 40K, to live on. From that, we have three cars (two paid for), a moderate home (stole it for 90K), and are paying for a daughters college education and sorority room and board. We have, however, saved enough we should enjoy a comfortable retirement. Anyone who gets by on less is either a better money manager than I, or invests a lot less. The most important payment a person should make each month is to themselves.

June 4, 2008 at 10:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

truelovecharlie (anonymous) says...

flexj66801-Actually, I have rarely ever made more than $10 an hour and my wife is only a para for the middle school; making next to nothing and only 9 months out of the year. It all has to do with priorities. People are obsessed with amassing great wealth in material things, while the family unit goes awry. How many families actually raised their own children, in this generation? How many poeple even truly know their own children? Children are left to raise themselves or strangers are hired to raise them while the parents are out working themselves into early graves. In a nut shell, that is what has happened to society; peoples priorities are all out of whack. I just turned 46 and have owned around 15 houses in my time. The most I ever paid for a house was $36,900 and that was a 3 bedroom, 2 bath house on 2 1/2 acres. My current home is super efficient with heating only running me $65 in the coldest months of winter, keeping the house at 71-72 degrees and cooling costing around $125 in the hottest months of summer, keeping it around the same temparatures of 71-72 degrees. The best thing that could happen in society is for people to slow down, get back to basics and start taking the time to get to know their families and smell the roses again.

June 5, 2008 at 7:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Bjnemp (anonymous) says...

truelovecharlie: You hit a nail directly on the head there. Too many people today live to work instead of work to live. Every hour spent actively engaged (playing, laughing, reading, talking) with your children is REAL living, as is taking time to smell a rose, enjoy a sunset, appreciate a rainbow, or pet a puppy. When we are lying on our death bed, will it be the countless hours spent in the board room we reflect on, or the hours spent fishing with a child?

I'm with you, Charlie. Life is only as good as we make it... and it can be made to be incredibly good.

June 5, 2008 at 2:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

slipandslide (anonymous) says...

you make sense charlie

June 6, 2008 at 12:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

blulitespecial (anonymous) says...

same here..... Nobody ever had a tombstone that "If only I coulda spent more time at work"

June 6, 2008 at 12:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Weltha (anonymous) says...

bluelitespecial- LOL Yeah, I bet we will never see that. But. I bet my boss sometimes wishes I felt that way. LOL

June 6, 2008 at 1:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

hogan77 (anonymous) says...

I completely understand what people mean when they say, we need to slow down. However, I agree with the letter written. Say you DON'T own a house, and you have NO control over your heating and cooling (how efficient it is). What do you do then, when you are simply making minimum wage?

Example:
The Smith family is a family of 4. They need at least a 2 bedroom dwelling. For a years worth of rent, based on the lowest priced apartment available now, would be $4,560 a year. Let's go the cheap route, and say every appliance is electric. On a low end average, let's say that the electric bill ends up being around $1,200 for the year. Add in cost of food, for a family of 4, low end would be approximately $2,400 a year (this is shopping at Aldi's). Now for gasoline. On average, say the Smith family spends $1,440 a month. This would be for both Mr. and Mrs. Smith to get back and forth to work. Add in child care for the youngest, say she is 1. At even $10.00 a week, so Mrs. Smith can work part time at a convenience store, that is $520 a year. Little girl Smith also needs diapers, since she is only 1. Buying the cheapest available, estimated, this rounds out to $312 a year, that is given that she is only using one $6.00 pack a week. Now, let's do a tally of all necessary things. All of this together adds up to $10,432 a year. Keep in mind, this does not count for extra things, such as schooling, clothing, car upkeep.

Now for jobs. Mr. Smith hasn't completed his college education, he had to drop out due to the family coming along, and his need to support them. Therefore, he is working a job that pays a little more than minimum wage, say, $6.00 an hour. At 30 hours a week, that is only $9,360 a year. Say he works at KFC. At least he has a job, but they give him hours like a teenager instead of a grown man. Mrs. Smith, she works at a gas station, part time. She gets 20 hours a week, at $5.75 an hour. This totals up to $5,980 a year. This makes the Smith Family's grand total income, BEFORE taxes, $15,340 a year. Take 30% of that for taxes, they are left with a whopping $10,738 a year.

Now, can you all see a problem here? Emporia is lacking quality jobs that will give the lower man on the totem pole a chance to survive. I am not saying that some people don't live beyond their means, but I am trying to point out to you all that it isn't a handful of roses either. Before anyone says it, yes. There always is the possibility of state funds to help the Smith family out. But, what if you are too proud? Or.... what is SRS tells you you make too much to qualify? Don't tell me it hasn't and won't happen that way. I know first hand that is HAS happened, and WILL happen again.

June 7, 2008 at 8:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

apsuz (anonymous) says...

For the "Smith" family...

First, I don't know where they find daycare for $10/week, unless it's state paid, and that is their share (most recently I paid $12/day). But here are a few tips to live a little better on this type of situation.

Since both parents are only working part-time, arrange the work schedules so no outside daycare is needed. Switch to cloth diapers (not only cheaper, but also better for the environment). Take advantage of (used to be called, but not sure now) Heartland Share, to get a better value for the food dollars. Shop around for car insurance to find the best deal. Keep the car tuned up to get better gas mileage (do it yourself instead of paying someone else). Since both Mr. and Mrs. Smith are only working part time, they could also check into going back to school. At this income level, they would definately qualify for financial aide (assuming they didn't abuse the privelage in the past, and if they are behind on student loan payments, consolidate and file for forebearance before doing the applying for financial aide). They should easily be able to get enough to cover the financial expenses, plus a little extra to help with living expenses. There are a wide variety of vocations available at the vo-tech, as well as ESU and many online colleges (which you need to check out well to make sure they aren't a "diploma mill". Many employers also offer scholarships or have classes (like CNA or CMA classes at nursing homes). Other things that they can do in their spare time is volunteer for church or non-profit organizations. Even though this won't increase the income right away, it does give experience that can be put on a job application and resume, as well as contacts for possible future employment. When the opportunity comes to increase income, take care not to increase spending, save the extra instead for retirement or emergencies (or at least a portion of it). Keep a clean, well-kept appearance (doesn't mean expensive clothes, just clean and appropriate). And keep a positive attitude.

June 7, 2008 at 10:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

apsuz (anonymous) says...

There are many things the "Smiths" can do to live on that income, or prepare to increase their income. The thing that gets me is when people with lower or fixed incomes do nothing but whine about it and want everyone to feel sorry for them. But they aren't willing to take a look at their situation, and what they might be able to do to improve it. Maybe they are scared of change, or just like living on hand-outs. But there is always something you can do, even if it's something small. And that something small can turn into something a little bigger and better. Sometimes a daily shower, decent clothing and a haircut can lead to a better opportunity. But there is no excuse for laziness, which is exactly what I call it when people say there is no way out and blame everyone else. I'm sorry, but even though I don't make a lot of money, I will never go back to living with that lifestyle and attitude (I've been there, even to the point of being homeless a time or two). Funny what happens when you take a look at yourself with an open mind and willingness to make a few changes.

June 7, 2008 at 10:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Bjnemp (anonymous) says...

That "Smith Family" story is a load of "Oh, poor me" nonsense. Had to drop out of college so now all you can find is a part-time job at six bucks an hour? I dropped out of college after one year and never had a problem finding a good paying full-time job. I changed jobs more than a dozen times in 30 years. I started out earning less than 20K per year, but I needed more so I looked for a better job. I eventually worked hard and upgraded jobs to make 30K, 50K, 70K, and finally broke the six--figure barrier just before retiring. All I heard in that Smith sob story was rationalization and excuses. Get off your butt and find full-time jobs then work like hell! Do you know there is a guy here in town with a beat-up old truck and flatbed trailer that makes a thousand bucks a week mowing lawns, hauling trash and tree limbs, and doing odd jobs? This is America, Bucko, and with all her current problems this is still the land of unlimited opportunity. The money flows like water over Niagara Falls out there and it's available to anyone with enough guts and willing to work hard enough to haul it home.

June 7, 2008 at 11:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

blulitespecial (anonymous) says...

"That "Smith Family" story is a load of "Oh, poor me" nonsense."
Nonsense is RIGHT! Hard times ain't an excuse,it's a wakeup call.Let's try a "Dr. Phil" approach-
Broke? Hard times? How's that workin' out for ya?

June 8, 2008 at 3:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

emporian (anonymous) says...

And that attitude is why Emporia is going to slowly fade away. There is nothing to draw young people with young families here. Some are just kinda stuck here if guess, but many who grew up here are leaving and never returning or returning to find there is nothing for them. There are simply few jobs. Emporia is at a crossroads right now. Which road to take I am not sure, but they need to try something else or Emporia will continue to fade away.

June 8, 2008 at 5:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bdprotheroe (anonymous) says...

Just for a moment, I'd like to set aside the matter of looking for a job and focus upon what an earlier blogger had to say about passion and work. As a human resources manager, I do have to say that I see too many people going to work for a paycheck only and not taking pride in their vocation. Reminds me of a quote...

"If a man is called to be a streetsweeper, he should sweep streets even as Michelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music, or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the host of heaven and earth will pause to say, here lived a great streetsweeper who did his job well." -- Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

June 8, 2008 at 3:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Bjnemp (anonymous) says...

Protheroe! You're on a roll! As a regional manager, I hired close to 100 people in the last 15 years and I fully agree with your comment. No one wants to work! 50 years ago I remember my father asking me, "who is the more successful man: the best garbage man in town or the best banker in town?" His answer was: they are equally successful. Why? Because they both worked hard and reached the top of their chosen professions. There is no substitute for hard work. When combined with honesty, success is imminent.

June 8, 2008 at 5:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bdprotheroe (anonymous) says...

I'll do my best to keep the next point from sounding like a rant. Make of it as you wish.

In addition to the employees, there are issues with the employer, dare I say too many hiring managers. The hiring manager's impatience pushes the human resources manager/recruiter to hire someone who has done the work (identical job) before, every task. So, to hire someone who is already doing the same job elsewhere means you will have to pay them more to switch employers, ultimately going to the higher end or over the salary range. This process is nothing short of inflating the cost of the service (which hits the bottom line).

Employees (including new hires) crave career development, but too many employers don't want to waste their time with training. But, by bringing in a new employee who has most of the necessary skills to do the job and promising to teach the a new skill, you can hire them at a more reasonable level on the pay scale.

Employees complain about salary, but in the end they want career development and to be valued. I've worked with enough exit interviews and employee satisfaction surveys to know that while salary is important, career development is a sure fire way to retain the employee.

June 8, 2008 at 5:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bdprotheroe (anonymous) says...

BTW, bjnemp, I just reread that last comment and it was not directed at you as an employer. Please do not misconstrue my intent. My point is that there are too many hiring managers too focused upon making money to remember that their employee population needs just as much skill cultivation as the clients need TLC.

June 8, 2008 at 5:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

apsuz (anonymous) says...

Another thing employees crave is recognition and respect that is deserved. The relationship among employees and employer, as well as among co-workers, has a lot to do with whether or not one take's pride in their work. I don't know how many times I've seen employers only point out things employees do wrong using negative communication without first finding out what could have been done first to prevent the incident, thereby possible preventing the same thing in the future. Maybe the employee wasn't properly trained, or just showed poor judgement in a situation they weren't prepared for. But there should also be acknowledgement of a job well done, even if it's a simple, "good work". I've never been in the position to hire or supervise anyone, but if I were I would definately take into consideration the fact that it costs less to retain good employees (including training for career advancements) than it does to have a high turn-over rate and having to hire and train new people every week or every month. It may be harder to get hired at a place like that (because of low turn-over), but it makes for a more desirable employer where people actually want to go to work.

June 8, 2008 at 6:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Bjnemp (anonymous) says...

No problem, bdprotheroe. I agree with that opinion also. I have seen the same trends. In fact, I have personally felt the same way. Too many employers fail to understand that all their computers, buildings, trucks, furniture, and hardware, are just that---dispensable and replaceable hardware. Their real company, and real future, is their employees. Unfortunately, many employers fail to realize that and don't allow their employees to be part of the decision making process or reward them for jobs well done. Employees who feel they matter work harder and longer and feel good about doing so.

June 8, 2008 at 9:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bdprotheroe (anonymous) says...

1 + 1 = 2. Citizens need jobs, and the state needs tax dollars from a source that will be sustainble into the future. This seems to be one logical solution.

http://www.cjonline.com/stories/06110...

June 11, 2008 at 1:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bellabrooke (anonymous) says...

Exactly the reason we are not long for Emporia.

We don't live above our means nor do we covet material things. However, despite pretty good insurance, our daughter's 3 major hospitalizations in her first year of life have taken away our safety net and we cannot stay with the one good salary that's coming in.

June 11, 2008 at 3:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

hogan77 (anonymous) says...

Here is my favorite quote, take it as you may.

“The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about”

Have you looked in the want ads lately? Have you seen the rising cost of living (housing, gas, food, etc)? Are you blind, or even worse, completely oblivious to everything that goes on around you? Kudos to you, the people that had the opportunity to earn the high wages before retiring. What was that, 10 years ago, 5 years ago? Back when the dollar was actually worth a dollar I assume. Back when businesses let the "older" person work his way up the ladder, before they realized they could pay 20 something managers pud pay with long hours, because they are young and stupid and don't know any better.

As for the college ordeal. What if you go to college and earn a masters degree. However, you were so determined to get schooling to help your family out, that you only worked as a cashier somewhere, to make a few ends meet until you were done with schooling. Then when you go out in the real world, no one will hire you for entry positions (to get experience you need for those higher paying jobs), because you are OVER QUALIFIED?? Then you are stuck working that KFC job, at minimum wage. Sucks, doesn't it?

The simple fact is, the writer has stated that there need to be more jobs that pay better. I completely agree with this. Convenience stores should pay more than $5.75 an hour. So should fast food restaurants. Is it going to happen? Not any time soon.

I consider myself fully blessed. My husband has a great paying job, one that he loves. It has allowed me to stay at home and care for our one child, to watch her grow and mature. We sometimes struggle financially, but we are intelligent enough to make it work. We live frugally, never beyond our means. We only owe another $7,000 on our house, paid through an escrow with no bouncing interest rates. We have a 10 year old TV, rabbit ears for news and weather. We borrow internet service from family. No long distance calls, regular servicing on our car, done by our father, for free. My husband walks to work, which saves us on that high priced gas. We buy food in bulk, hardly ever buy new clothes. We watch the thermostat on our heating and cooling. We conserve water, never eat out, and do free activities with our child, like having a picnic and play time at the park. Do we still have problems with bills? Yes, sometimes we do. Why? Because, things keep going up in price, and wages never budge.

June 11, 2008 at 7:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

mythoughts (anonymous) says...

I have the skills and experience for a $50K annual salary (or more) which I would be making if I could relocate to KC. What can I get in Emporia? $20K if I'm lucky. This is the lowest wage I have ever earned in my professional life. The people who are in the jobs I need aren't going anywhere, and without the creation of new mid-range to upper-range professional positions I'm left with very little choice or opportunity. The first chance my husband has to relocate, we are out of here.

June 13, 2008 at 8:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bdprotheroe (anonymous) says...

FOOD FOR THOUGHT...

Here's an insightful article from the AP, which is certainly directly connected to this editorial about searching for sustainable employment. The average CEO salary is over $8M. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25106423/

I would think more Americans would encourage their elected officials (both parties) to push for more "Say on Pay" legislation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Say_on_pay

And as for those tax cuts, sure they may benefit us, the lower and middle classes, but do we truly trust the upper crust to reinvest their fortunes at "home?" http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article...

June 15, 2008 at 6:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )