This is part one of an occasional series looking at the Buxton retail development study of Emporia and potential new retailers who might be interested in the city.
In the four years since Emporia’s longest-running sit-down Italian restaurant closed, no restaurants, local or chain, have stepped up to fill that void. The retail development study performed for the city earlier this year won’t be changing that, even though two Italian quick-service restaurants were recently identified as potential matches with Emporia.
Beyond pasta available at some pizza restaurants such as Pizza Hut and Gambino’s, there aren’t any restaurants in Emporia that specialize in delivering methodically prepared Italian cuisine. For a town of Emporia’s size, that may not be atypical.
Kent Heermann, president of the Regional Development Association of East Central Kansas, recently told The Gazette many of the retailers matched as potential fits for Emporia in the retail study performed by Buxton, the customer analytics firm based in Fort Worth, Texas. After the study was presented in April, the RDA wanted to keep the city’s list of matches from widespread publication.
Heermann said two Italian chains were on Emporia’s list: Fazoli’s and Sbarro. Both are quick-service restaurants, rather than sit-down establishments like the Olive Garden or Johnny Carino’s.
“I don’t know on Italian,” Heermann said. “It seems like (with) people here and restaurants, if it’s good and you get a lot of food, people come back. I don’t know, it’s a tough thing. I don’t know how many people are going to be eating out anymore, with the cost of energy.”
The situation was different in 1990, when Randy Clark, his father, Al, and Larry Ramirez opened S’Ghettis at 1015 Commercial St., in the small space where U.P.’ers now sits. S’Ghettis served traditional Italian cuisine until it closed in 2004. Randy Clark said as far as sit-down Italian places went, S’Ghetti’s was the only game in town when he started, and business was great.
“The west end of town hadn’t boomed yet,” he said. “Applebee’s wasn’t there, Golden Corral wasn’t there, Montana Mike’s wasn’t there. I had probably about six years of business without that type of competition, and it was great.”
But each time one of those new chains opened, Clark said, it took his clientele away for around six to eight months before they would filter back to S’Ghettis. Another restaurant chain would open, and he would lose customers all over again for that six-to-eight-month period. During that time, he said, the popularity of the low-carbohydrate Atkins diet also hurt S’Ghettis.
“And by then, I think, it was close to 2001, and then 9/11 happened, and business really dropped after that,” he said. “It was just a lotta hours. The money was good, but it was a lotta hours, taking away from my kids, and I was glad to get out of it.”
Clark doesn’t think Emporia has the size to support a large Italian chain, such as the Olive Garden. His father ran a short-lived, sit-down restaurant called Little Italy, located in the 1100 block of Commercial, for about a year in the early 1970s. Styx, an upscale pasta restaurant that served Italian and Italian-style menu items, closed not long after Virgil Patterson opened it in late 2006.
“A smaller scale (could work) — not smaller than mine, so to speak, because it was a little restaurant,” Randy Clark said. “I think another one my size would probably work. Maybe a little bit bigger, but a bigger chain, you’ve gotta have a lot of numbers coming through your doors to make the money to keep it open.”
Emporia’s two matches in the Italian quick-service industry are both looking to expand, according to their Web sites. Fazoli’s has 280 restaurants in 30 states, the chain’s Web site said. It has six locations in the Kansas City area, two in Wichita, one in Hutchinson and one in Salina. A Fazoli’s corporate attorney didn’t return a phone message, but the site says Fazoli’s is “expanding across America.”
The Sbarro site bills the chain as “the nation’s leading quick-service Italian restaurant company” and says it has nearly 1,000 locations in 30 countries. Sbarro has restaurants in Kansas City, Kan., Manhattan, Salina, Topeka and Wichita. The site says the company plans to expand across the United States and includes detailed information about becoming a Sbarro franchisee.
Sit-down Italian restaurants are nowhere to be found in another Kansas town of similar population. Gina Broeckelman, director of operations for the Dodge City Area Chamber of Commerce, said there have been no sit-down Italian places in town in the more than 10 years she’s been there, but she’d like to have some. She said Dodge is waiting for the state lottery commission to award a bid to build a planned new casino in Ford County.
“And then as soon as that happens, then I’m sure we’ll be having an influx of different things at that point,” Broeckelman said. “And I hate to assume, but I’m assuming a lot of (businesses) are waiting to see where the casino’s going to be located.”
For now, she said, the closest thing Dodge has to a sit-down Italian restaurant is Pizza Hut, which has recently been touting its expanded pasta menu.
That’s similar to Emporia’s situation; pizza restaurants that offer pasta on their menus are the closest thing that Emporians can currently get to a leisurely Italian dining experience without leaving the city limits.
“Pizza seems to do well around here,” Heermann said.
mactlyon (anonymous) says...
I would not rely on how well Styx did. THe food wasn't that great it was ridiculously over priced and not much of a choice. S'ghetti's was wonderful wish it was still open.
July 9, 2008 at 4:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
proverbs18_21 (anonymous) says...
With all due respect, I would hardly refer to S'Ghetti's as 'typical Italian cuisine'. That's a bit like calling Long John Silvers 'typical seafood cuisine'.
July 9, 2008 at 5:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rmbcollege (anonymous) says...
Fazoli's is awesome! I wouldn't mind a place like that. I personally think that you get what you pay for when you go there. Everytime we go to Wichita, we eat there it seems. It is good pasta and reasonably priced!
July 9, 2008 at 7:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
gazette_reader (anonymous) says...
It may be because I tried S'ghetti's towards the end of its existence, but I think the food at that point was closer to Chef Boyardee than to Italian Cuisine. At that point, it seemed more like a "reheat-ery" than a restaurant. I heard, though, that the food was better in its earlier years.
July 9, 2008 at 9:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hornetfan00 (anonymous) says...
Dont think you realize how many people from Emporia travel to Topeka or Wichita to dine at the Olive Garden. The restaraunts mentioned in the article.....maybe the food just wasnt good. Reconsider the Olive Garden maybe with a smaller dining area
July 9, 2008 at 9:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
acricket (anonymous) says...
Fazol's is great I eat there 2-3 times a month in Shawnee,Ks They are thinking about opening one in Leavenworth, Ks. It seems like that town and area is growing fast. They are getting a new big Wal-Mart along with another big prison up that way. Leavenworth is the oldest city in Kansas and still growing, what is their secret?
July 9, 2008 at 10:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
peaches75 (anonymous) says...
Besides Italian, has anyone ever thought of putting a Chipotle in Emporia? I was at one in Topeka this past weekend and it's always busy whenever I'm there and also the one at The Legends mall in KC. A Chipotle would go over SO well in this town with all the high school and college students. It's not expensive and the prices are worth it for the food!
July 9, 2008 at 10:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
CassieJo (anonymous) says...
Did someone say Olive Garden??? mmmm it's well worth the drive to topeka for!!
July 9, 2008 at 10:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JohnDoe (anonymous) says...
how could an italian restaurant not make it on the west end of town?!? Somehow we support countless burger joints and mexican restaurants. An italian restaurant, like olive garden, would have the sole control of that corner of the market. Where can you really take a date in town? I love montana mike's as much as the next guy but it's not quite a fusion of fine dining and romantic ambience. Italian can work in this town... it just has to be done right. That means not Fazoli's. It pains me to have to drive to topeka and spend my money there for something we could/should have here.
July 10, 2008 at 12:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
josiesbar (anonymous) says...
For better or worse,I would like to see the results of this survey posted to the public. We paid for it, let us see it. This whole deal of "the RDA wanted to keep the city’s list of matches from widespread publication," is a load of horse-(expletive) if you ask me.
July 10, 2008 at 3:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
apsuz (anonymous) says...
How about before bringing more restaurants in, bring in more employers that pay a living wage so that there can be more potential customers for new dining establishments?
July 10, 2008 at 3:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
A good sit-down Italian restaurant could make it anywhere in this town, not just on the west end. Parking would be a major consideration, of course.
LOL proverbs, right on! I never cared for S'Ghetti's either. The pasta was overdone and the sauce tasted canned. We need to take a road trip to Pittsburgh where they have the real thing.
Eggplant Parmesan anyone? That's what I'm fixing for supper tonight with eggplant from my own garden.
July 10, 2008 at 6:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
siamesefred (anonymous) says...
Create, I'm sorry I have basketball practices on my schedule tonight. Otherwise, I'd be eating at your restaurant!
July 10, 2008 at 7:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
alfalfa (anonymous) says...
How bout a Hooters, can we expect one of those?
July 10, 2008 at 8:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
momus (anonymous) says...
I'll agree with apsuz. If you want higher end restaurants in Emporia, we need jobs that create the customer demographic (and population) that these restaurants are looking for. Manhattan can't get an Olive Garden, and their pull area population is five times larger than ours. The only short term solution is an entrepreneur opening a restaurant, but would they get consistent community support that would allow profitability?
July 10, 2008 at 8:37 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Weltha (anonymous) says...
The one time I ate at S'gettis it tasted and looked like they bought pre-made, frozen and releated it in a microwave. YUCK! I would hardly called a sit down w/ the small size of the building.
July 10, 2008 at 8:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
wanderer (anonymous) says...
Josiesbar, I'm with you. Let's see this list of the "big 20." Keeping it secret for purposes of competition is ridiculous -- other cities won't have quite our demographics or situation, even in Kansas. And as many have said before, Emporia 's residents paid for it. Anbody want to make a formal Open Records request? (I'd do it, but I'm not living here anymore).
July 10, 2008 at 11:49 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hornetfan00 (anonymous) says...
Peaches75....I emailed Chipotle about opening a store here two years ago.....they referred me to franchising
July 10, 2008 at 12:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
gazette_reader (anonymous) says...
momus is right about the customer demographic. Many people love Olive Garden and other restaurants like it (and in that price range), but how often could the average Emporian afford to plop down $25-$30 a person for a nice dinner? Especially when most of the jobs coming in are in the $7-$10 per hour range?
Sure, you might be able to afford to do it once every other month, but unless you have a very large population or a very wealthy one, there won't be enough people eating there often enough to make it profitable.
Why do we have so many burger and other low-end fast food places? Because people can afford to eat at a $5-$7 a person restaurant on a regular basis.
July 10, 2008 at 4:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
JohnDoe (anonymous) says...
Perhaps things have changed since the last time I was there. I always thought Olive Garden as being the "Applebees of Italian." Which it basically is. Also comparable in price. Applebee's is selling $9 burgers and $12 chicken pasta plates. What is a steak dinner at Montana Mikes running these days? Most dinners at OG cost between $9-13. Don't get me wrong, it isn't cheap and our(and my own) avg income obviously can't afford eating there everyday. But it's not a stretch at all from what applebee's and mike's have been pulling off for years. This isn't the giant leap everyone thinks it is.
My reference in the earlier post was not referring to McDonalds, Wendys, and BK. Applebee's, Montana Mike's, and Carlos O'Kelly's was the intended reference. I apologize for the lack of clarity.
July 11, 2008 at 12:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
paulkersey (anonymous) says...
So in a nutshell, the City spent $75,000 on a survey to tell them Emporia won't get an Olive Garden. Mr. Zimmerman, if you give me $5,000, I will give you a formal survey explaining why we aren't getting a Tiffany's, Chanel, or Sac's, and I'll have saved you $70,000! I am of the mindset that the City of Emporia has been somewhat sodomized by this "survey." As far as a formal Open Records Request, I think thats a GREAT idea!
July 11, 2008 at 2:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
gazette_reader (anonymous) says...
JohnDoe - Olive Garden has been trying to shake the image of being the Applebee's of Italian and their food has improved substantially since then. However, their prices have gone up - I think the last time I ate there, I spent about $15 for the entree, $5 for a glass of wine, then $4 or so for dessert. Double that for my husband, and then toss in a tip for good service, and you get a $50+ meal for two.
July 11, 2008 at 8:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
momus (anonymous) says...
JohnDoe,
The Olive Garden is a huge leap. Like I said earlier, the city of Manhattan has been trying to recruit an Olive Garden for the last two to three years and they were told that they were too small. The city of Manhattan its self has over double our residents, a D 1 university, and a pull area population of over 270,000 (versus our 55,000). I can't make it much clearer than: it's not going to happen. Not now, and not in the foreseeable future. The same holds true for every single chain identified by the community on the chamber's "wish list" (The Olive Garden, Red Lobster, Target, Best Buy, etc.). The question that we as Emporian's must ask ourselves is: are we prepared to "grow our own" unique substitutes to the large chains that are obviously not a good fit for us? It's much more realistic to assume that we could encourage an entrepreneur to open a sit down Italian restaurant that it is to expect the local trade area to more than quadruple in size, or for the Olive Garden to radically change its business model. But, would it matter? Would the citizens of the area be willing to financially support a mom and pop, or can they only eat at a place that has a green "Olive Garden" on the door or shop at a place with a bull's eye on the front.
I would like to say that everyone would go out of their way to help grow the local businesses, but if that were true we would have Braum's national headquarters located in Emporia today. Let's not waste time and money on Big Box pipe dreams. Let's build our own businesses, develop our own entrepreneurs and export them to other towns (while keeping their headquarters here). The grow from within, smart growth strategy keeps more money at home, improves the tax base and gives local residents more shopping and dining options. But, I'm not sure people are prepared to break away from chains in Emporia.
July 11, 2008 at 8:25 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hornetfan00 (anonymous) says...
dont know what you all eat at the olive garden but my unlimited soup/salad at lunch is only 5.95 and my entrees that I like at the dinner hour are under $10.........
July 11, 2008 at 10:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
netloafer (anonymous) says...
I think too much of the current development strategy amounts to little more than having a champagne wish list but a beer pocketbook. Momus is right. Chains like Olive Garden aren't going to come here. I'm not even sure that something like Fazoli's would/will either. The truth is, our median household incomes are too low to support these types of ventures.
I like the idea of home grown ventures, but I also think that folks considering these types of things see the same things that Olive garden's corporate folks see. Given our current demographics, these types of things are risky ventures.
Every once in a while my wife considers the idea of opening a fine dining establishment, something that would only be open three or four days a week. There wouldn't be a menu, per se. She would prepare a series of two or three gourment entrees, etc each day the place was open. We've thought of something downtown, available after events, etc., especially when the Granada opens. Dining would be by reservation only. It would be a bit pricey, to cover the cost of good food items to work with and good staff, etc. But, the food would be excellent.
When we lived in NJ there was a small place like that in the township we lived in. It was succesful, in part because the food was so good, and in part because the demographics of the township were favorable to such a venture. There was more than adequate disposable income and people were willing to spend some of it on really good meals.
I think as we talk about it we always end up nixing the idea, at least for the short term. There really isn't a market here for something like that and we come to see that it would probably wind up being a costly venture in the end.
I wish it weren't so, but Emporia is lagging further and further behind in the economic arena. Current development strategy has a lot to do with that.
I think there are other potential entrepreneurs here in town, but they see the same things my wife and I see.
July 11, 2008 at 10:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
Hey Brodie Cline, How about opening up a Italian restaurant with $5 meals, smoke free bar, complete with a set of full service gas pumps out front? Instead of your wrecker, put a dog cage on the back and do animal control duties or offer doggy rides for a fee for those that cannot take their dogs in the back of their trucks anymore.
$70,000 for a survey that any longtime resident could have answered if asked is exactly why the City of Emporia is in a budget crisis.
July 13, 2008 at 2:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Netloafer, your idea about opening a small fine-dining establishment with limited entree choices is practiced in many cities. They're called bistros.
When I lived in New Orleans, there were many bistros operating all over the city in two story homes where people lived upstairs and cooked and had public dining space downstairs. Open only for lunch or dinner, they offered one or two entrees, limited but excellent wine choices, superb table service, and high quality linens and silver. Many served either French style cooking or typical New Orleans fare. All made their own wonderful crusty French bread or rolls. Reservations are a must.
My favorite was a place that belonged to a woman with a penchant for raising herbs. Pots of herbs, which she used in her cooking, sat all over the courtyard, scenting the heavy New Orleans air. She cooked and her daughter provided service. I always enjoyed dressing up to go to dinner at those places.
But I don't believe the city ordinances for restaurants allow bistros in Emporia. Alas.
July 13, 2008 at 5 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
momus (anonymous) says...
Create,
I love the bistro suggestion! Another couple of ideas I've run across in trying to develop some unique dining options are "time share" restaurants, and restaurants that are run by culinary institutes. The first option goes by many names depending on the city, but essentially you have a restaurant that rotates menus and cooks (generally caterers) instead of having a set staff and theme. You can always count on something different and unique, plus you don't have the burn out that you sometimes deal with when people are just starting up a restaurant business. The down side is that these businesses are hard to manage, and you have to create seamless transitions from one menu to another. Marketing can also be difficult, but if one menu takes off it can move someone from catering or a hobby chef to opening a restaurant.
The culinary school restaurant exists in several places throughout the Midwest. Essentially, a school runs a restaurant with profits off setting the costs (or some of the costs) of the program. Students gain valuable real world experience from a master chef, and the community gets a sit down restaurant. I've talked to individuals associated with the Tech College about this idea, but I don't think they are interested at this point.
I think your bistro idea could happen with a loft apartment in a downtown building and a restaurant downstairs. I can almost guarantee that there is money out there in the form of low interest loans or grants to make something like that happen.
July 13, 2008 at 9:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
I like the idea of the "time share" restaurant too, and yes, I can see where there could be management difficulties, the pantry for one. But a well-trained wait staff would remain the same; just the cook staff would change along with the menus. Yes, marketing might be a problem and advertising is so expensive. In Chicago, where my daughter lives, a favorite small Italian eatery just posts their menu on a chalkboard on the sidewalk. Of course, they have numbers there.
It would be expensive at the outset considering you have to outfit an entire kitchen, but it could happen. Imagine a downtown bistro that would also invite guest chefs from time to time.
You're making me hungry, momus. I'm going out to my garden and gather whatever is out there for a breakfast frittata. Bon apetit!
July 14, 2008 at 7:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )