This year’s deer rifle season is going well for some hunters and not others, depending on where the hunters are.
Ed Rathke, an Emporia hunter, said he hasn’t taken any deer yet this year. People in his hunting party have, however.
“One of them took a nice 10-point buck,” Rathke said. “Another took a nice 8-point. One of my nephews took a nice 5-point.”
Lloyd Fox, big-game program director for the Emporia office of Kansas Wildlife and Parks, said overall the season is normal.
“It appears to be a pretty good deer season for most of the hunters,” Fox said. “It looks more or less like a typical season and harvest.”
Fox said the deer population numbers are about the same this year as in past years.
“I do a spotlight survey here in deer management and one of the routes just south of Emporia ... that route I think was just a little bit more this year,” Fox said.
Fox said good populations of deer can be found across Kansas.
“That’s one of the great things about deer hunting in Kansas is that the potential to find excellent quality deer occurs in all parts of the state,” Fox said.
It does depend on where a hunter is located and weather conditions, Fox added.
“There’s some areas that have lots of deer and a few miles away there are very few deer. That has to do with the habitat and the hunting history that goes on.”
Areas that have had lighter hunting pressure tend to have more deer, Fox said.
Rathke said he’s in his tree stand no later than a quarter to six each morning that he hunts. He stays until about 10:30 a.m. and is back up around 3:30 p.m.
“I got to watch lots of birds and some squirrels fighting every day,” he said. “I saw a couple of big flocks of bluebirds and some really neat finches.”
Rathke said his hunting group normally has a better season than this.
“It just seems like the numbers for us have been down,” he said.
Wind also has been a factor on some of the hunts, Rathke said. Since deers have a good sense of smell and they can’t smell as well in the wind, they tend to stay put.
“They really sit tight in the grass when it’s windy,” he said. “They don’t move around much.”
Fox said that with snow on the ground, Wednesday afternoon was a perfect day to go deer hunting.
“They show up better on snow than they would on drab and brown,” Fox said. “The hunters can trail deer and follow tracks on the snow. (Wednesday) afternoon the advantage is for the hunter. (Tuesday) the advantage was with the deer.”
Even if their luck hasn’t been great, Rathke said it’s not always about the deer.
“If nothing else you get out,” he said. “It’s not just for the deer hunting. It’s for the friends. We all sit around and tell stories. It makes it worthwhile right there.”
The 12-day rifle season continues through Sunday.
madpoet (anonymous) says...
I wish we had a longer rifle season. It makes it hard to get out if you have to work. And if the weekend weather is bad, there goes the hunting season.
We have had more deer on our property this year. I think the better fruit harvest was a factor. They come up and eat the windfall apples and pears. We see them only at night slinking through the yard behind the outbuildings. I had a close encounter with a small doe on my way to get firewood last month. She snorted and watched me for a while. It was the closest I've been to a deer in a long while. It was wonderful!
December 11, 2008 at 2:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Happiness08 (anonymous) says...
Most people don't realize that a deer can be a dangerous animal during the rut (breeding) season. They have been known to actually attack people. I also disagree with the statement that they can't smell as well in the wind. They have a very good sense of smell, and when hunting it is important to stay upwind of them.
December 11, 2008 at 2:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
madpoet (anonymous) says...
Bucks can be dangerous during rut. I certainly didn't try to go up and pet the doe. She was probably 25 feet from me. Wind makes animals nervous since they can't hear or smell as well and tend not to travel any more than they have to. I've noticed this in many different animals, not just deer.
December 11, 2008 at 3:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
A 5 point buck? It's people shooting anything with horns that makes true trophies few and far between. I have not shot a buck in 2 years, I hunt for a trophy and for the venison, if the trophy is not present then its does for me. I see too many people come in with bucks that should be left alone for another few years, clearly good judgement and conservation has gone by the wayside.
December 11, 2008 at 3:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Gorilla (anonymous) says...
I am lookinng for anyone willing to give me permission to take a doe or shoot some coyotes. I teach here (didn't grow up here) and wear several other hats and just haven't had time to knock on doors to get permission sadly in the past 10 years that I have lived here. I know a lot of people that hunt and have land but seems like when I bring up trying to find a place to hunt, the conversation changes quickly!
I'm not a trophy hunter. Just enjoy the outdoors and getting some meat plus I have a daughter that I would enjoy going with me.
Feel free to email me at cmwiltz@cableone.net!
December 12, 2008 at 11:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
goodoleboy,Not everybody hunts just for a "trophy" buck. I happen to hunt for the Food, not just because a deer has a large rack. I see to many "trophy" hunters shoot deer, cut the head, backstrap and rump roast off then leave the rest for waste, to me That means good judgement and conservation has gone by the wayside. So, I'll shot any deer, no rack, big rack or a 5 point buck!
December 12, 2008 at 2:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Shoot a doe then, like I said in the above post, I hunt for the rack and venison, if the rack is no good I take does and that way maybe in a few years someone will have a shot at something worth putting on a wall. Every meat hunter I talk to takes does conserve and encourage growth in our trophy population. I never waste anything, and that includes taking a young male before he blossoms, its like picking a rose before it blooms in my book. , and just as wasteful as people taking the choice cuts and leaving the rest for the coyotes.
December 12, 2008 at 10:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
I do shoot a doe first when opportunity is there, If it happens that it getting close to the end of season and I have not got a deer yet, a little forked buck comes along, he is dead.
You hunt how you want, I'll do the same
when you make comments like
"I see too many people come in with bucks that should be left alone for another few years, clearly good judgement and conservation has gone by the wayside."
it makes you seem arrogant or that your judgement is so much better than others.
who are you to tell people how to hunt and what to shoot?
December 13, 2008 at 6:01 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
I advocate conservation and echoe the sentiments of almost every prominent hunter and sports enthusiast group. You have 2 bow seasons, a muzzle loader season, and 2 rifle seasons, if a "little forked buck" is all your seeing around here then something is wrong. But by all means if yuou think I am off track, send in your comments to an outdoor magazine and see what kinda repsonse you get with that kinda attitude. I've seen more than a few articles with people stating the exempt same rhetoric that you are, then are promptly skewered by the editors, readers, and experts. But by all means, hunt the way YOU want, have it your way, screw future generations and everyone else.
December 13, 2008 at 8:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
goodoleboy, maybe you cant read or maybe you just cany understand, My comment
"I do shoot a doe first when opportunity is there" seemed pretty easy to comprehend to me but maybe I should just Type slower for you...
maybe the areas I hunt dont have the population of the areas you hunt, Not all of us as so lucky as to just see deer after deer. OR maybe we all have jobs the prevent us from hunting during every season (bow/blackpowder/rifle) OR maybe the time we have is limited to hunting a few short days. So when I purchase a hunting permit to hunt deer, buy a gun,ammo,camo, etc,etc, I have a few dollars wrapped up in the sport, So I damn sure will kill what comes along and I will damn sure enjoy the eating of it. I dont need to write anybody about my hunting habits, I follow the law AND "I do shoot a doe first when opportunity is there"
Get off your high horse and give me a break, you are no better than I and your opinion of my hunting ways, matter little to me. Do not ASSUME you know me or how I conduct my business.
December 13, 2008 at 9:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
Drs Bennett looked to be having a good time together, enjoying each other's company and following a tradition near and dear to their family obviously. They get out and enjoy the outdoors, help control the population of the wildlife resource through harvest, benefit from getting to eat the lean game meat, they are a family who share their passion for the sport and the outdoors having quality time together. These are good times for many.
There are those that despise hunting, the ownership of guns, and the killing of animals. They typically have low opinions of the hunting and shooting community as a whole and paint us as redneck uneducated bubbas and killers. They think that their ways and beliefs are the only correct way to live and are lobbying hard against guns and hunting. They feel the government should protect us, the public should behave like sheep and join the herd expecting the sheperd(big brother) to provide us food and protection. (their peers/relatives belong to CAE)
I was disappointed to see the picture they chose to include with the story. I know the doctors and know they are a fun loving bunch, but those kinds of pictures fuel the hatred from the people mentioned above. The pictures are great to share with family and friends, but in a very public format like on the front page of the Gazette, it was very inappropriate pose and representation IMO.
And to lgo and gob, your arguing over who is right about which animal you should shoot, has anti's paying attention and smiling. You're letting them know that their efforts are working and hunting is vulnerable because of the infighting that exists amongst the hunting ranks. Hunt the ethical way of your choosing and let the other guy decide for himself what animal to harvest.
December 14, 2008 at 9:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
I read your comment, and understand your stance on the matter. Perhaps I am a little bitter about the topic, but as an avid outdoorsman and a land owner of large sect of acerage I have seen first hand what conservation and management can do, and the effects of what people in the article above shooting "5 point bucks" has done. I was raised to let the little guys go in hopes that someday someone else or even myself might see him all grown up. We are so very lucky that where we live has an abundance of game and great places to hunt, I just feel very strongly that harvesting animals before their time is a waste, I would rather not shoot anything then something that is not ready to be taken. It makes us look bad in the eyes of all people out there that would like to see us lose that priviledge. You get desperate and need a deer for meat, PM me your number. I'll gladly put you on a big doe.
And neighbor, I could not agree more with you on being ethical, but as I mentioned above I think it speaks volumes for us as hunters when we can give an animal a pass today to generate a better quality hunt tommorrow. We must strive to shed the image of "redneck with a gun", I get a lot of my beliefs on this from the Indians who respected the animals, and it saddens me to see that there are a lot of people out there that have lost that respect. Just the other day I was at Bluestem and I overheard a conversation that summed it up to me on how things have gone downhill with certain sects of our membership. Fellow #1 said " Man that would have been a real monster in a few years!" Fellow #2 replies " Yea I had to shoot him now before anyone else could" It is this kinda of rhetoric that disgusts me and is a cancer to our cause.
My 2 cents
December 14, 2008 at 11:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
neighbor, your jumping in and scolding us for having a dispute put you in the same boat you acuse us of being in! Butt out, no one was talking to you.
Also you being "disappointed" in the pictures that were posted and posting your opinion "has anti's paying attention and smiling. You're letting them know that their efforts are working and hunting is vulnerable because of the infighting that exists amongst the hunting ranks"
get a life.
December 14, 2008 at 5:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
oh4theluvof (anonymous) says...
LGO,
Two words: PUBLIC forum
December 14, 2008 at 9:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
Sensitive are we? You read much more into my entry then what really existed and added the "scolding" tone yourself, it was not intended as such. I was hoping it would be obvious that my response supported your belief that you had the right to choose which deer made you happy(read my last sentence).
Nice thing about public forums, everyone is invited into the conversation, whether you agree with what they have to say or not.
December 14, 2008 at 10:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
oh4theluvof
Two More words
Public Forum
December 14, 2008 at 10:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
admireed (anonymous) says...
Should shoot a heck of a lot more. Cut the herd 60% and save a lot of car accidents
December 14, 2008 at 10:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
alfalfa (anonymous) says...
From my vantage point, there are more than enough deer, and hardly anyone who wants to kill a doe for meat. The KWP has become a taxing agency rather than a conservation agency, their doe permits are too expensive.
What is going to do hunting in is fewer and fewer young people are involved in it...someday we will no longer have a hunting tradition. This is unfortunate because hunting is the only real way to control the population of alot of wildlife.
December 14, 2008 at 11:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
neighbor, maybe I am a bit sensitive but your statement,
"your arguing over who is right about which animal you should shoot, has anti's paying attention and smiling. You're letting them know that their efforts are working and hunting is vulnerable because of the infighting that exists amongst the hunting ranks."
sounded like a scolding to me.
alfalfa, what other reason would you shoot a doe? and you are correct, doe permits are too expensive .
December 15, 2008 at 5:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
alfalfa (anonymous) says...
I should have just said hardly anyone wants to shoot a doe, or hardly anyone hunts for meat anymore, that would have been a clearer statement....at least that is the way it is with the hunters I run into.
December 15, 2008 at 7:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
outdoorsman25 (anonymous) says...
I agree 100% with goodoleboy, There are wayyy too many people who go out and see a few horns and shoot. If you are going to shoot a little 5 point. Why not shoot a doe and let that probably year in a half old 5 point grow into a 4 in a half yeard old 10 point. There will be much more satisfaction in knowing what your conservation and management can do and what you will get in return. That's fine if you're taking out a first time deer hunter or a kid, let them shoot whatever they want. In many of the big buck states there is a restriction; there has to be atleast 3 points on a side to be legal to shoot, which is a great managment tool, fantastic management tool which needs to be brough to KANSAS. ADMIREED, cut the herd by 60%, you're crazy, lets just kill them all!?
December 15, 2008 at 1:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
emporian (anonymous) says...
Read some of these stories the Conservation Officers have to tell.
http://www.kdwp.state.ks.us/news/Othe...
December 15, 2008 at 2:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
alfalfa (anonymous) says...
Cutting the herd by 60% sounds good to me. I have 3 pickups, all three have been involved in at least 2 deer accidents, including 2 different occasions when the deer came out of a field in the dark and hit the bed of the pickup. Ruined one front combine tire from a deer antler, cost me $1000. Ran 3 antlers through a front tractor tire in one day this spring planting soybeans(at different times during the day). You can just figure the first 12-15 rows of corn all the way around most fields in the bottoms will go to the deer and coons(and turkeys). The standard answer is "let more people hunt". Won't work. First of all, hardly anyone wants a doe,they all sit around waiting for these huge bucks. Second, how many guys with high powered rifles do you want on every quarter section, and, hardly any of them want to be on a place with 2 or 3 other guys(and I don't really blame them). I guess if you are not trying to make a living farming, deer are great, and there aren't too many.
Reading these comments about how terrible it is to take a 5 point buck at first made me laugh out loud, as it has gone on I am getting a little POd about it. If someone has a buck license, they can shoot whatever they want it would seem to me.
The next point I am going to make is this is why so much land is now going to lease hunting. I figure conservatively the deer are costing me about $7500 a year in lost crops, broken fences, and things like the combine tire. Since so few of the local guys will stoop so low as to shoot a doe, more and more landowners who don't hunt themselves are leasing the ground out to try to recover some of the costs from the deer..this for sure doesn't set well with the local hunters. I am livid the state has set the extra doe season for just 4 days, for the few guys who will shoot a doe, the permits ought to be $5(they really ought to be free, but that will never fly), and the season ought to cover at least 2 weekends.
December 15, 2008 at 7:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
admireed (anonymous) says...
Wonder how much our car insurance rates are "upped" to cover deer whack claims?
December 15, 2008 at 9:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
Go ask your insurance agent admireed. If you use an honest one, they'll gladly tell you they don't have a problem with deer, they like increasing their profit raising everyone's rates using deer as an excuse. Next question for the agent, if deer were all exterminated, would your insurance rates go down. You might want to take an oxygen bottle with you to help revive the agent after they pass out laughing at you.
I've driven thru farm country for 30 yrs in multiple vehicles. I watch for deer all the time knowing they are there and expecting them. I've had $0 dollars damage to my vehicles that I've been driving. I've had near misses, thank goodness I was aware of the deer in the area. All cannot be avoided I realize, so does my wife who did hit one right along the Neosho River, who could have ever expected one there?
My grandparents farmed and my father still does, funny they've never ruined tires on deer antlers farming bottom ground. Deer go where there is little/no hunting pressure. Right now after rifle season has ended, they are up in pastures and out of the bottoms due to all the pressure that has been put on them during rifle season. If you don't allow hunting they get real cozy and settle in. You don't need an army of orange to pressure them out, two or three hunters thru the season with a rule that a doe or two have to be taken first before a buck can be shot should do it. Lease hunting is taking hold, because there are people willing to pay to hunt here and due to the fact that deer are quickly being turned into a cash crop. I don't blame land owners one bit for collecting from people willing to shell out the money(Barnum statement comes to mind). Enjoy it while you can collect it, because the folks paying lease money don't want does either, they are paying for horns and when they don't find any on your place, they go to the next place leaving you high and dry. When all the big horns are gone, they will leave Kansas like locusts that have stripped a field. Also keep in mind, if you try to expand your operation, don't cry loudly when your billfold isn't deep enough to compete with the ones that buy and lease land solely to hunt. I'm sure you've seen that at auctions already, leasers and Kansas Farm Bureau have helped make that happen. When you call the neighbor kid who used to hunt for "free" before the leasers, to come help move cattle, fix fence, burn pasture, etc, I certainly hope you pay him this time.
Before you accuse me of being anti-farmer or anti-ag, please know I am from a multi-generation farming family, live in the country, own land, work in the ag industry and support land owner rights 100%.
December 15, 2008 at 10:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
alfalfa (anonymous) says...
There are plenty of people who have ruined tires on equipment from deer antlers neighbor, no matter what your personal experience is. Our bottoms have been crawling with hunters the last 10 days, and there have been does out every night of deer season, you are delusional if you think otherwise. I don't ever remember any "neighbor kid" helping for free, what I do remember is having more friends about a month of the year(hunting season) than any other time. Nobody is suggesting exterminating all the deer, I am suggesting that KWP has gone from managing wildlife to being an extension of the Kansas Department of Revenue.
If my cattle get out and cause a wreck, I am liable. If my cattle get into someones crops, I am liable. If the deer belong to the state, maybe the state needs to pay damages for some of the damage they cause, either that or actually start to manage the population.
Many landowners lease to pay the taxes, some lease to help them compete with wealthy guys from Wichita or KC trying to buy land. Alot lease to compensate for damage caused by wildlife.
I have never had anyone local offer me anything for the privilege of hunting. Not a days work, often not even a thank you. We are a long, long way from being out of deer, and we are a long, long way from being out of trophy bucks. If I were serious about hunting, I would be out cooperating with 3 or 4 other hunters to lease 160-320. Often it can be done for $3-$5 an acre if you play your cards right. It has always irked me to have a couple guys drive up in a $40000 pickup to ask to hunt and never offer to do anything in return. Often these same guys want to have exclusive rights to 500-1000 acres or more, just as if they were leasing it.
December 15, 2008 at 11:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
alfalfa (anonymous) says...
A couple other things neighbor, give the folks at Mels tire a call, or any other outfit that fixes and sells ag tires, and ask them if anyone ever runs a deer antler through a tire. Also, so what if the does leave for a few days during hunting season, the damage is caused during the growing season.
I like wildlife as much as the next guy, and it is nice to be able to give people the privilege to hunt for free. The reality is, farmers are suffering heavy damage from deer, I am sure it varies from area to area, and farming is a tough business anyway. If hunters really value hunting, they will partner with farmers to manage wildlife to acceptable numbers. One thing I feel is certain, the KWP is not a friend to either the landowner or the in state hunters, they are in the business of collecting fees.
December 15, 2008 at 11:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Just as outdoorsman said, if there was a limit on the size of the buck you could take it go a long way towards solving the problem. The does are the ones that need culled more if you are to shrink to population to more acceptable levels. States that have implemented these programs are seeing great returns on all venues, people are too concerned with what they can and cannot do and not what best for whole.
December 16, 2008 at 3:26 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
Never denied farmers get antlers in the tires. Three in one day is excessive and so is your claim of losing $7500 in a year to wildlife. That's like saying if I just got another inch of rain, I'd had 500 more bushel. I'm sorry your hunting "friends' weren't more responsible about helping you manage your wildlife populations. Shame they didn't show their appreciation to you for being gracious by allowing them to hunt your land. They should have been helping out in your operation without being asked for the help. Not all hunters are that way.
The reason KDWP is operating the way they are and making changes to the deer hunting regulations the way they have been, is because of political pressure in Topeka from the Agriculture lobbies and those pushing deer commercialism. The claims you hear on the radio about car/deer accidents being a problem statewide are bogus as well. 80% of the car deer accidents in Kansas happen in 10 of the 105 counties. Several counties in Western Ks have had multiple years without a single one at all. Two counties, Johnson and Leavenworth, have the most reported accidents, because there is very limited hunted allowed in the KC Metro area, city limits.
The two biggest ag lobbying firms in Topeka have been behind and promoted every single deer hunting change since 1996. KSU is involved. Deer are supposedly the bane to farming, yet everyone in agriculture wants to make money off them.
Funny how many claim there are too many deer and too much crop damage, but how quick that claim disappears once lease money enters the discussion and the landowner gets mad when does or small horned deer get shot. Why is it deer, coons and turkey are the only wildlife blamed for crop damages? Ever seen what a flock of black birds do to a milo field in one day? Geese to a green wheat field? Some people are willing to pay to hunt the first three.
December 16, 2008 at 6:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
alfalfa (anonymous) says...
I guess neighbor you are telling me I am making my figures up? You are amazing, you evidently know my business better than I do.
We no-tilled alot of beans into wheat stubble. Evidently, since the wheat was the only thing growing when they dropped their antlers, the fields with wheat were full of antlers. Watched as close as we could and picked as many up as we could, but the truth is I did run three through in one day, telling me I didn't is calling me a liar.
I never actually have heard of anyone paying to hunt coons, so I doubt your assertion that farmers only complain about the wildlife that can be hunted for money are what cause the damage. Geese do alot of damage to wheat, that is why I am glad to see goose hunters show up. I have spent plenty of time with a shotgun trying to get blackbirds out of milo(pretty much a waste of my time and shells).
My point of posting is that we would not have the amount of wildlife we have today if not for the cropland. Farmers are taking the brunt of wildlife damage. There are too many deer in many of the bottoms, and more does need to be taken. In the end neighbor what you are really saying is people like me should just accept the losses cheerfully, very easy for you to say when you are not paying $200 a sack for seed corn, and $1000 a ton for fertilizer like we did last year. I have had more than my share of "good old boy good buddy" hunters who always promised to take a doe, but in the end were just too busy trying to get a trophy buck to be bothered with a doe. I think there are plenty of people who need the meat, but the KWP has priced them out of the equation.
I think there needs to be two completely different seasons,one for bucks and one for does, of equal length, or the doe season could be longer. Just yesterday in the two mile stretch I drive in the bottoms to feed cattle, I counted 45 deer along that stretch, one evening bringing the combine out of a field on a 3/4 mile drive we counted 35. If you had 35 young calves of your neighbors in your soybean and corn fields every evening, you probably would sue the neighbor, but nothing can be done about the deer.
I have got everyone I know with a doe tag coming for the big 4 day doe season that is 10 days too short, but that will not solve the problem.
To switch gears, the biggest enemy to hunting is that fewer and fewer young people are taking it up. It is more expensive then it use to be I guess is one of the reasons. I haven't seen a dove hunter in two years, I have only seen one quail hunter, he hunted all day and couldn't find any quail(that population has dropped like a rock, you hardly ever see a covey). One of the reasons we don't have more restrictive anti hunting laws is we still have alot of people that maybe at least hunted once or twice in their lives with Grandpa or dad, and know it isn't evil.
December 16, 2008 at 9:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Hillbilly (anonymous) says...
I am not against hunting, I know that the area is being taken over by turkeys and deer. I allow a few to hunt my land. The problem I have is that some of the hunters, and yes they have been to my place ONCE, do not ever practice or probably even pick up their weapons before they morning they decide to go for the trophy, Especially bow hunters, (gun hunters also), those of you that think you are a perfect shot, guess what, you ain't, if you shot, kill the thing, don't let me find it a few days later with the arrow in its butt. Now, I know I will probably have a few tell me crap about this post, that's fine, you are only hurting yourself as those of us who do own land read these posts to. So think about your comments to land owners before you post. REMEMBER, you are a guest on the owners land and you should consider it a PRIVILEGE to hunt on the landowners land.
December 16, 2008 at 9:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
alfalfa (anonymous) says...
Hillbilly, I was just thinking about how much neighbors post has reinforced my opinion that most hunters see landowners as more of an obstacle than anything else. On one hand he minimizes my losses, more or less telling me I am making them up, on the other he is really put out over the idea someone might have to pay to hunt, in other words his $$ and finances are alot more important in the whole scheme of things than mine. I can pretty much see his opinion is it is fine for me to make the land payments and pay the taxes, pay the insurance, and accept the losses so people like him have a place to hunt for free...you are right that landowners do read these posts too, and I can tell you first hand when a group of farmer/landowners get together and the subject of hunting comes up, the poor attitude we encounter from hunters is brought up, often, and is one of the main factors in the shrinking number of places people can hunt. Just as the post with all the KWP officers griping, most farmers I know have a whole book of stories of hunters who did everything in their power to give the entire hunting brotherhood a bad name.
Every year, less land is owned by landowner/farmers and more by absentee landowners and owners of very large landholdings...very few of those two groups care at all whether or not local guys have a place to hunt. One would think that hunters would do everything in their power not to offend the few remaining owner/operators who will allow hunting, I find most have the attitude neighbor seems to have, and that attitude doesn't make me any more likely to let someone hunt.
December 16, 2008 at 10:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
goodoleboy, when you make comments like "people are too concerned with what they can and cannot do and not what best for whole."
I guess you consider yourself to be the "whole"
You a mamber of CAE?
Once again, some people trying to force their opinions and way of living off on everybody else. JMO
outdoorsman25, according to some on here there are plenty of deer to shoot, so what difference does it make what deer is shot? as long as one has a tag and shoots it legal, Meat Is Meat. Some of you sound like little kids, Leave the big ones for me!!! I want the big one!!!
Goodolboy says there are plenty of deer which means there are plenty of bucks to keep the population going doesnt it? So if shooting a 5 pointer puts some food on a table, there will be others left for you to kill, BIG and small.
December 16, 2008 at 5:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
Alfalfa,
Nope, sure didn't say you were making your figures up, just think that perhaps you're counting the chicks before they hatch.
No, I didn't call you a liar about your tire, just can't imagine having so many horns in one field. Even though I did not intend my statement to imply you are a liar, I do apologize for not being clearer on what I meant. I go looking for shed antlers in our fields and timber as well as on other properties I have permission on every year in March and April. Rarely do I find one, let alone three in one field. One field I'll hit next spring, the farmer complained to me about getting antlers in his swather tires when he cut his brome in July. I offered to scan the field for him next spring before the new growth got too tall to see them, he was more than glad to have someone do that, and I don't even hunt there.
No, don't put words in my mouth. I did not say you should accept wildlife damages as the norm. Wildlife needs to be managed right along with how you manage the land and livestock you make your living from. Having people pay to hunt there doesn't address the issue of too many deer(it usually compounds it)but I understand it does take the sting out of it for some.
Trust me, you have me figured all wrong and you are painting hunters with too broad of a brush.
December 16, 2008 at 6:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
What in the hell does CAE have to do with hunting? Is one of our mottos not to preserve and pass down our tradition to next generation? This is not about rights, its about ethics and management of a natural resource, its a PRIVILEDGE to hunt, NOT a right, that is on page one of hunter's safety just an FYI. Like I said before, people are too damn concened with what they can and cannot do, rahter than what is best for the whole. The whole being our brotherhood of outdoorsman. This is not the 1800's, people here do not depend on hunting to feed their families anymore. People nowdays get caught up way too much in what they can and cannot do when in fact they should be asking themselves if they should. There are plenty of does yes, but our trophy population is declining, and harvesting of these tiny bucks are part of that. Hunters do occaisonally strike out, but it's the experiences and getting back to nature and appreciating it is what the sport is truly about. Heaven forbid we not fill our tags every year, that is just madness!
December 18, 2008 at 10:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
Goodolboy, some people trying to force their opinions and way of living off on everybody else, that is what CAE does and thats what you seem to what to do. Answer your question?
As for huting being a priviledge, probably so, but that does not mean YOU get to decide how I use my priviledge.
to use your words
"People nowdays get caught up way too much in what they can and cannot do when in fact they should be asking themselves if they should"
Should one hunt just for the trophy buck?
Some hunt to spend time with family, time to relax, for food, to get away from it all, etc,
Not everybody is in it just so they can puff out their chest and say lokk at the big buck I got or to mount a head on a wall, give me a break! Next you will be telling me not to shot a turkey unless it has a 12" beard, 3" spurs and weighs 30 lbs.
you also say "people here do not depend on hunting to feed their families anymore" Dont pretend you know all people!
And if you have the money to throw away every year by not filling your tags with anything less than a TROPHY , good for you! My money does not come that easy.
I can agree with you that the little bucks should be left until they get a little older but I do not agree, or do I tell others what they should and should not hunt, If John Doe landowner goes out to hunt, I dont give a crap what he shoots, its his time, his gun, his money, and his PRIVILEDGE to hunt how he wants.
December 18, 2008 at 2:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
I know this, people do not depend on deer hunting to feed their famlies, this is a reasonable assertion that one does not have to know anybody to come to. Those days are gone, and I challenge anyone to elighten me as to if there is anyone in this region living exclusively off the land with their family.
2nd, again I care less about the CAE issue, it has no place as that is a RIGHTS issue and this is a PRIVILEDGE issue. I and many other fellow landowners do in fact tell hunters that we permit on our lands that if they shoot a tiny buck when there are nice big does a plenty that they will not be welcome back. Anything average or up is fair game, but shoot something with horns just because it has them will exclude you from my land and the other folks I know. Many people I know feel this same way, and I hedge many a bet that any landowner around here would love to see a guy come in and snag 2-3 does vs. waiting around for the big guy. So yes in fact I and many other landowners do have a say in what the hunters on our lands do. Unless of course you hunt public grounds, in which case good luck because the pressure on those lands is such that the game is gone very quickly.
3rd, comparing turkey and deer is apples and oranges, irrelevant to the topic and not even worth debating.
And finally I never said to waste your money not filling your tags, I said sometimes it would be best to leave that little guy out there versus filling a tag, tags are not that expensive, gimme a break, a box of shells costs about as much as a tag anymore. Perhaps if more hunters went out and thinned out the does on these farmers grounds that are having trouble with deer than they would be less likely to lease out to some out of state guy under the pretense that the local will better cull his population. My whole argument has always been that if a quality deer is not present than I advocate a conservation and management policy to facilitate quality hunts for us and the generations to come. I feel this is ethical, reasonable, and above all promtes a positve image for our brotherhood.
December 18, 2008 at 3:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
glarson (anonymous) says...
I, for one, can say that we do hunt for the meat. Yeah, the men in my house enjoy the hunt, but I enjoy a full freezer. We process 90 percent into burger with the remainder minute steaks and butterflied tenderloin.
This year, I ran out of burger about 2 months before rifle season started (my guys don't bow hunt). I was devastated because I really don't like cooking with ground beef anymore.
No, we don't live completely off the land. I still balance our deer meat with some pork steaks and chicken purchased in the grocery store.
My fellas managed to fill all their tags this year, and were able to do it on our land. They took 4 does and 2 bucks, I think. The bucks were exciting, but none were trophies. And the bottom line is the meat. A good-sized doe works fine for all of us.
Alfalfa, if you need more help thinning the herds next year, please call. I've got 4 fellas who would be happy to harvest does for you.
Gwen Larson
December 18, 2008 at 3:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
I am not saying there is anyone in this region living exclusively off the land with their family, but a deer is a hell of a lot cheaper than buying meat in the store Duh!
as for hunting public grounds, you cant say
"Unless of course you hunt public grounds, in which case good luck because the pressure on those lands is such that the game is gone very quickly." and then say just the oppisite in an eariler post "You have 2 bow seasons, a muzzle loader season, and 2 rifle seasons, if a "little forked buck" is all your seeing around here then something is wrong"
Not everybody is a landowner, not everybody has money to waste by not filling their tag, what about that dont you get??
comparing turkey and deer is apples and oranges, no it is not, why say only shoot the big bucks, the same should go for turkeys if you use your logic, conservation right?
you say " Heaven forbid we not fill our tags every year, that is just madness!" that is called sarcasim, meaning no need to fill a tag if ya dont see a big buck. So Yes you did say waste your money!
Lastly you seem to think Everybody is just like you, did ya ever stop and think that there are people right here in Emporia and Lyon County who are without jobs or have little income, dont have the places to hunt like you do and who are struggling to get by with what they have, NO YOU DIDN'T! it's all about you thinking you know everybodies situation and therefore try to dictate to them whats best for them and the wildlife population. Get real you arrogant know it all.
December 18, 2008 at 3:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
and BTW, I can feed my family darn neer all winter on one deer (buck or doe) for less than 50 dollars and a little time, I can not however let a 5 pointer go by and then spend the money needed to buy all my winters meat at the market.
December 18, 2008 at 3:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
I apoligize for getting out of hand with my comments, but you upset me when I think people like you have the money and resourses to have the luxury of sitiing back and waiting around to shoot only trophy bucks. You assume everybody has what you have and therefore should live your way of life. Not all of us are so lucky. I am not whining about my situation,I'll get by just fine, I'm just saying.
December 18, 2008 at 3:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
As I said earlier Mrs. Larson, being dependent on deer for ones family and being able to enjoy it as an alternative to store brought products is 2 different issues. I'm implying that that people do not DEPEND on deer for food, it is a luxury in that it stems from a priviledge, and when considering the equipment, time element, and processing fee( or cost of euipment to do it yourself) its really not a massive savings unless your quartering the thing in the barn and making the whole thing into jerky. Glad to hear your fellas did well this year, enjoy your holiday.
December 18, 2008 at 3:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
not sure who mrs larson is? as for the equipment needed, a knife and bone saw is not that expensive, and I do butcher my own game, it seems you pay someone to do yours (must be nice) anyway I get plenty of Rounds, Tenderloins, Loins, Ribs, Stew Meat and Ground Meat for Sausage and Burger. It goes a long way and is cheaper than store bought burger and steaks. You are out of touch with the real world, been reading to many hunting mags and talking with your coffee shop buddies (all of whom I bet have 1000 dollar guns)
Lastly you "implying" people do not depend on deer for food, just shows how out of touch you really are. I buy a small pig every year also, raise it, kill it, butcher it, eat it, Thats cheaper than buying a the market too! do the same with sheep also! Cheaper than buying at the market!
When you stop driving around in your 40 thousand dollar truck and living in your 100 to 200 thousand dollar house and hunting in your 300 dollar camos with your 800 dollar gun, you may just realize what I'm talking about, until then keep your head in the clouds with the rest of your god like friends.
December 18, 2008 at 3:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Quotes
"but a deer is a hell of a lot cheaper than buying meat in the store Duh!"
Unless you do your own processing then no it is not, want me to break down the $/lb? MOST people do not process their own.
"Not everybody is a landowner, not everybody has money to waste by not filling their tag, what about that dont you get??"
Were in my post did I advocate wasting money on tags to not fill them? Oh thats right I didn't! I said that sometimes the more ethical thing to do is to let an animal mature rather than fill your quota, and that is out of line?
"comparing turkey and deer is apples and oranges, no it is not, why say only shoot the big bucks, the same should go for turkeys if you use your logic, conservation right?
logic check deer=apple turkey=orange. Are they the same? nope. Ergo no comparison. Besides I NEVER said ONLY shoot trophies did I? reread again plz
Lastly if there are people here that are that destitute the last thing they need to be doing is dedicating time and resources to hunting, hunting is a priviledge and a luxury that should go to the bottom of priorites if one is in fiscal disarray, or is that line of thought not responsible and ethical to your fellow citizen?. I don't just speak for me, i echoe the sentiments in almost every wildlife magazine I pickup anymore. In fact I'll do you a favor I'll submit our comments to a F&S and a few others, and lets see what the general hunting populace has to say about it, you think its only me that feels this, your dead wrong. If it gets any ink I'll link it here or host it for you to see how about that.
PS I do not "sit" around waiting for only trophy bucks, I have shot nothing but does for the past few years and that has not changed this year. As I said before, if a quality male is not present then I take does. I have never been an elitest and I routinely take handicapped hunters out for deer and turkey and try to help and promote our brotherhood as best I can, so stop painting me something I am not.
December 18, 2008 at 3:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Perhaps if you read the posts better you would see who Gwen Larson is. I know what it cost to process a deer, I rarely take mine there because I am not a huge fan of burger and I can cut my own up as needed. I am a jerky nut, I jerky the whole deer and give much of it away to friends and family. You seem to have a rather large chip on your shoulder, sorry the world has wronged you so.
December 18, 2008 at 4:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
goodoleboy , forgive me I forgot arrogant elitests such as yourself can only see things from their own point of view and all others have no merit, so you win, you are 100% correct in your way of seeing this matter, everything you said is right on the mark, you should write your own hunting magizine and share all your wisdom with the rest of us little people. good luck with your hunts and have a holiday.
December 18, 2008 at 10:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
alfalfa (anonymous) says...
I know of one family that is poor and has no meat other than deer meat. I disagree strongly that a poor person cannot afford to hunt for meat. They do process their own.
I am glad to see someone admit that hunting for trophies is a luxury. Good that is out in the open. People who consider hunting a luxury should not object in anyway to paying the landowner for the priviledge of using his land. No one has ever offered to let me farm their land for nothing.
I am not an expert on many things, but I am an expert on the do's and don'ts of getting permission to hunt. LifeGoesOn, I respect the position you are in. I know not everyone can own land. There are plenty of landowners who are glad to see someone hunting for meat, because to us that means you WILL fill your permit. Unless someone is paying me to hunt, I am not interested in granting permission for someone to sit in a tree for 10 days and not shoot anything, because nothing big enough came along. If you make it clear you will take a deer, and will take a doe if necessary, you will probably always be able to find a place to hunt, as long as you respect the landowner and whatever rules he/she might have.
Back to my original theme, I still feel KWP is more of a taxation agency than a management agency. With the deer population we have in the area and what will probably be a growing number of people with constricted incomes, KWP should be making an effort to see that poorer people could afford to hunt deer for meat, it would serve two purposes, one being control of the deer population and two feeding the hungry.
December 18, 2008 at 10:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
goodoleboy, I noticed that you didnt tell Mrs Larson that her fellas "good judgement and conservation has gone by the wayside." (your words) because they shot two bucks that were not trophy bucks???? instead of taking 6 does.
Funny how your opinions change depending on who you are talking to.
Heres another quote from goodolboy,"I know this, people do not depend on deer hunting to feed their famlies"
Funny how I said I do, but you didnt hear that
Funny how gwen Larson said "I, for one, can say that we do hunt for the meat"
aother quote for goodolboy "I hunt for a trophy" after a statment like that dont preach to me or anyone else about good judgement and conservation when others hunt for meat/food. Maybe goodolboy could read a bit of history and see why people hunted to begin with, it wasnt for the "trophy" it was for the food, In my eyes, those people knew more about "good judgement and conservation" than the ones who hunted for trophys. Remember the buffalo, who had better judgement there? The indians or the goodolboys.
Ive probably said enough on this subject, so I'll leave it up to goodolboy to get the last word, the floor is yours.
December 19, 2008 at 5:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
glarson (anonymous) says...
You're right that I was naive not to take into account the cost of the tags, licenses and processing. But, because I don't see that money spent, I guess I don't factor it in. I do see it spent if I'm at the grocery store.
Not all would want to spend the money, but, because my husband loves to hunt, he budgets for it. (Doubt he'd do the same if I wanted to spend the same amount on shoes -- but you can't eat those!) Hubby also saves up his vacation time for rifle season. I've often said that I'm a single mom during deer season... but I don't mind if he fills my freezer.
In years past, my husband did process his own. His dad, in another county, was all set up for processing and we still made most into burger. After several years of doing the careful trimming, however, I think my husband decided it was well worth it to pay someone else to process. He's had good experiences with both lockers in Lyon County.
Like every topic, this one has many sides. We are lucky to have our own land to hunt. Because we don't farm it, however, what deer is on it doesn't affect our livelihood.
Alfalfa, I appreciated your comments, because I'm more of a citified country person. Grew up in rural Osage County, but we weren't farmers. My folks commuted to work in Topeka. So, I'm still learning much of the issues that farmers and ranchers face. I assumed that wildlife eating crops was the only issue. Thanks for educating me.
Gwen
December 19, 2008 at 6:40 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
alfalfa (anonymous) says...
Gwen, I am glad someone got educated from my posts. The deer population has exploded in my area in the last 10 years. I think one reason is we have nearly perfect conditions for such an explosion ie less hunting pressure, great winter feed, and no natural predators(and I don't want any either). The KWP is of the opinion that farmers can just keep on feeding the deer at their cost, KWP has moved to position of enemy number one to this farmer.
Aside from eating crops, deer tear up fences, the antlers go through tires, and they are a hazard on the road at night and early morning. The turkeys eat crops, but I have not been convinced they are even close to the problem deer are. Geese can also be a problem, I know of one fellow who lost 40 acres of wheat because the goose manure that is so high in N burned his wheat up. The fact is while some hunters who have posted on this thread do hunt for meat, far more local hunters are trophy hunters, no different than the out of state guys. The out of state guys are willing to pay to hunt, it makes perfect sense that they will be the people getting most of the best hunting ground. For the most part, leases that I know of are running $3-$10 per acre. Given the money many hunters spend on guns and pickups, spending $500-$1000 for a place to hunt doesn't seem that out of line to me, much cheaper than owning the land. People who hunt does often can still gain access to land if they talk to the landowner and the person leasing it, because generally the lease hunter has no interest in does. Leasing is a trend that will continue to grow in popularity. Inputs for growing crops are getting higher, land prices and rents are getting higher(for now anyway) and the economic pressure on owner operators is getting higher. We need every $ we can get. If hunters really are serious about hunting, they will group together and make some deals with landowners, rather than gripe about leasing.
December 19, 2008 at 7:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
alfalfa (anonymous) says...
One further bit of explanation. The reason I believe KWP is to blame is this. As has been illustrated in this thread, there are people willing to hunt for meat, but in many cases they are not the wealthiest in the area. KWP has made hunting deer expensive, in spite of the fact the area doe herd needs thinned. KWP opened the state to out of state hunters knowing surely that most who come from another state are going to be wealthier than average, and want to hunt trophy bucks. This has led to an explosion in leases(along with the economic factors I mentioned) putting pressure on local hunters. The more affluent local hunters have been able to deal with this, but the less well off guys, and those who just don't want to spend a fortune to hunt get squeezed out. The good answer to me is as I mentioned local guys going together to spend probably an average of $5 an acre to secure hunting rights, but also a 2 part deer season of equal lengths. Many landowners would tell their paid guys they will have to let doe hunters hunt. I still let people hunt does for free, but do lease for bucks. There is resistance from the buck guys at first when you tell them you are going to let doe hunters in after they are gone, but if you have good enough ground and tell them it is that or nothing, they will readily agree to let local guys hunt does, because few lease hunters want anything to do with does. There simply aren't enough guys who want does, the KWP could help this by making doe permits cheaper, or giving landowners with problems doe permits that could be given away(not sold). Landowners can get depredation permits, but these have to be taken outside of deer season. The problem this caused me is I had several hunters lined up to shoot does and donate them to the hunters feeding the hungry program, but since it was outside of deer season they couldn't be processed, and the hunters didn't want to process them...if we had a doe season where depredation permits could be used, that problem would end, and the meat could go to good use.
December 19, 2008 at 8:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
Gwen, I'd like to suggest you get some other views on the issue before feeling you have graduated from Deer 101. I assure you there are much different opinions on the subject that was has been laid out on this thread.
I would suggest contacting Keith Sexton at KDWP and discussing the deer hunting progression and time line with him. He held Lloyd Fox's job until he was made Assistant Sec. of KDWP. He knows deer, and he knows how Ag Politics have gotten involved.
December 19, 2008 at 10:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
Keith works out of the Topeka Office, not the Emporia Office.
December 19, 2008 at 10:19 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
How in the hell do I know what Mrs. Larson's hunters shot? Again you fail at reading my posts. Not every deer is a trophy, it would be absurd to assume so, there are quality bucks out there that will NOT be trophies and I have said before there is nothing wrong with shooting quality deer, but it is a travesty to shoot little 5 points and the like. Unlike you I do not assume things that are illogical.
This is NOT THE GOOD OLE DAYS ANYMORE! Good god drop that crap already, people do not hunt exclusiely for food. Comparing today to the days of old is just flat out retarded. Like I said before I respect the animals as the indians did, and many indians believed it to be commintting an atrocity to take animals before their time. I have not taken a buck in 3 years, I do HUNT FOR A TROPHY but in the mean time I shoot 3 does a year and have a ton of venison and jerky stowed for my family and friends, again you fail to read my posts.....
You attack me over and again, I have never once attacked your person, yet you paint me as some rich jerk without knowing a thing about me. My personal finances and how I live is none of your damn business, I give a lot back to this sport and promote responisble and ethical hunting and wildlife conservation. As I said before I take handicapped kids out for deer and turkey hunts on my land, I take kids hunting a teach them to value the animals and try to instill good ethics in the next generation of hunters. I give a lot to this sport and I am very passionate about it, you sir a very sour indvidual and again I feel sorry for you that the world has wronged you so that you lash out at anyone you think might have more money than you and use that ammuntion for your ideals.
December 19, 2008 at 1:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
goodolboy, i'll bite
You ask " How in the hell do I know what Mrs. Larson's hunters shot"
the answer is , YOU responded to the post where she said
"They took 4 does and 2 bucks, I think. The bucks were exciting, but none were trophies"
maybe you need your glasses checked there big boy!
you say "people do not hunt exclusiely for food" and I'm telling you I DO, doesnt seem to hard to understand, that is for anyone with half a brain.
LMAO, Now you go on to say what an expert on what the Indians believe, WOW! you are a no it all
Then you go on to preach "good judgement and conservation" then go out and shoot MORE THAN YOU NEED, so much so that you have to give it away!
you say "I give a lot back to this sport and promote responisble and ethical hunting and wildlife conservation" then talk about "I shoot 3 does a year and have a TON of venison and jerky Stowed"
Now that seems like an ethical way to hunt?
And as far as me painting you in a certain light, If the shoe fits
Last question, you say "there are quality bucks out there that will NOT be trophies"
OK we see 5 pointers do not fall in that group, so what does? a 6 pointer? 8 pointer? 7 pointer? One with one antler? Do they have to weigh a certain amount? Does their hide have to be a certain color?
Shall we all leave it all up to You to decide what is a "quality buck"? I dont need to read your posts, in my opinion, you are Arrogant. again thats JMO, I dont pretend to speak for everybody else or decide for everybody else. maybe if I read a few more magizines like you, I could learn how to tell everybody else how to hunt.
December 19, 2008 at 2:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
alfalfa (anonymous) says...
You are certainly not going to get an unbiased opinion from anyone with any position of power in the KDWP. There is a definite attitude at the top that farmers will just have to live with their decisions. KDWP believes deer are way more important than farmers, and our only job is to provide habitat(and pay taxes on it, to help support the state).
What seems to escape so many hunters is this. The days of the farmer/landowner seem to be fading, much of the land being sold is either being purchased by very wealthy people who have large tracts and for the most part are not interested in letting Joe Public hunt, or people who want to move to the country and buy an 80 or a quarter, and more than likely are going either to hunt it themselves, or not allow hunting. The guys who traditionally have allowed hunting, farmers who either have more land than they can hunt themselves or farmers who have no interest in hunting and have no family members hunting are themselves becoming an endangered species. SO it is kind of like this neighbor. You can tell me all you want that I don't know what I am talking about, and you can infer through your comment about Gwen contacting KWDP that I am misleading her. In the end though, thank goodness, the individual landowners decide who hunts and who doesn't. If KWDP wants to keep up this charade that the deer are not seriously impacting farmers, and guys like you want to go along with that, guys like me will just continue to go by the wayside, and with us will go much of the access to private lands.
December 19, 2008 at 2:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Holy crap batman do you comprehend what I wrote?
goodolboy, i'll bite
You ask " How in the hell do I know what Mrs. Larson's hunters shot"
the answer is , YOU responded to the post where she said
"They took 4 does and 2 bucks, I think. The bucks were exciting, but none were trophies"
maybe you need your glasses checked there big boy!
__________________________________
Logic check, as I said before, quality deer are fine to harvest, all I know is that the deer she spoke of were not trophies, does that mean they are not quality deer? NOPE! Strike One
You say "people do not hunt exclusively for food" and I'm telling you I DO, doesn’t seem to hard to understand, that is for anyone with half a brain.
_________________________________
You feed your family exclusively off the land? SUUURRREE! Again you fail at reading what I said. I said no one depends on hunting exclusively to feed their family. Back up and read it again please, Strike two!
LMAO, Now you go on to say what an expert on what the Indians believe, WOW! you are a no it all
__________________________________
So because I read and educate myself on the people that inhabited this land before us I am a know it all? Hmmm
Then you go on to preach "good judgment and conservation" then go out and shoot MORE THAN YOU NEED, so much so that you have to give it away!
You say "I give a lot back to this sport and promote responsible and ethical hunting and wildlife conservation" then talk about "I shoot 3 does a year and have a TON of venison and jerky Stowed"
__________________________________
As a landowner I get these little things called nuisance tags, I can shoot a lot more than 3 if I want but 3 is I will use. I stow away deer to give away to people because they like my jerky, damn me for giving to others! I also keep a bit on hand for smoking and steaks. So yeah, nothing wasted, I conserve and try to manage my doe population, dur, STRIKE THREE!!
Last question, you say "there are quality bucks out there that will NOT be trophies"
OK we see 5 pointers do not fall in that group, so what does? a 6 pointer? 8 pointer? 7 pointer? One with one antler? Do they have to weigh a certain amount? Does their hide have to be a certain color?
Shall we all leave it all up to You to decide what is a "quality buck"? I dont need to read your posts, in my opinion, you are Arrogant. again thats JMO, I dont pretend to speak for everybody else or decide for everybody else. maybe if I read a few more magizines like you, I could learn how to tell everybody else how to hunt.
cont......
December 19, 2008 at 3:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
________________________________
Go research the states that do have size limits on bucks harvested, educate yourself on that first because you obviously do not read my posts.
And as far as me painting you in a certain light, If the shoe fits
__________________________________
I could paint you a bunch of different ways I'll take the high road and not attack YOU as a person, you assume you know so much about me, well you know what happens when you assume...
December 19, 2008 at 3:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
goodoleboy, Take the high road? Right
lets see, you say I cant read, I'm illogical, I am a sour indvidual , I have a large chip on my shoulder, my stance is dead wrong, etc etc, If thats the high road, I would hate to see your low road!
Now lets see how you paint yourself , you say
" I conserve"
"I respect the animals as the indians did"
"i echoe the sentiments in almost every wildlife magazine"
" I routinely take handicapped hunters out for deer and turkey "
"I challenge anyone to elighten me "
" I hunt for a trophy "
" I read and educate myself on the people that inhabited this land before us "
" I take kids hunting a teach them to value the animals and try to instill good ethics in the next generation of hunters"
My God Man You sure think its all about you and that is your problem, That is why I say you are Arrogant! About every post you make is all about how YOU do this and YOU do that, How You know the truth and are so much more educated than the rest of us, give me a break.
Finally you say "You feed your family exclusively off the land? SUUURRREE! "
I NEVER said that, what I did say is that I hunt exclusively for Food, I didnt say I live off the land, i didnt say I feed my family by doing nothing more than hunting. Geez olboy, YOU need to reread!!
Let be be as Clear as I can for you and I'll type real slow!
I.......hunt.......exclusively......for.......food....NO.......OTHER......REASON
can ya get that or do I need to send you a picture??
December 19, 2008 at 3:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
I NEVER said that, what I did say is that I hunt exclusively for Food, I didnt say I live off the land, i didnt say I feed my family by doing nothing more than hunting. Geez olboy, YOU need to reread!!
Let be be as Clear as I can for you and I'll type real slow!
I.......hunt.......exclusively......for.......food....NO.......OTHER......REASON
can ya get that or do I need to send you a picture??
And go ahead and show me where I said that people do not do that, I said and I quote "I know this, people do not depend on deer hunting to feed their famlies". Meaning that people do not depend on deer hunting entirely for their food. Hunting is a priviledge and luxury, there is no right saying that you can go and harvest deer for your family, it is a priviledge given to you. No family is gonna go hungry if they do not get a deer, and if people are that destitute that they are in that situation then the money, time, and resources devoted to hunting would be allocated elsewhere.
yes I give a lot back to the sport, it makes me feel good to do so and give people opportunites they might not have, should just be a jerk and not share my land and time with others? How in hell is it all about me when I am there offering up my land and time to others in hopes that it will help our future hunting generations? Shame on me.......
December 19, 2008 at 3:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
boy, I'm not saying what you do with your time and land is wrong, my problem lies in the fact that you have to tell me all about it, You seem to feel the need to impress me by telling me what a good guy you are, that is just plain self centered and egotistical, Again JMO
"I know this,people do not depend on deer hunting to feed their famlies"
AND
"people do not depend on deer hunting Entirely for their food"
Two Different meanings all together, you seriously cant see that?
you talk about all the the money, time, and resources "destitute" people use and then have the gall to tell them their money,time and resourses could be better spent? Who the hell are you to tell anybody how to live?
BTW, I use my grandpas gun, Free, licence and tag, less than 50 bucks, Butcher my own meat Free, a few shells , a couple dollars, hunting public grounds,free
. maybe you can tell me where I can get 100lbs of meat for approx 60 dollars? That dont seem to be wasteing my time to me! Maybe you think it would be better to go get food stamps and live off others?
Now, see if you can respond without telling me about all the good things you do and how educated you are, i know it will be hard, but give it a try.
December 19, 2008 at 4:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Interpret both statements however you like, the message behind it still the same one I have been expounding upon time after time, and that is that people do not depend on HUNTING anymore to feed their families. Supplement sure, depend on it or starve no. Feel free to reread my posts where I explain that very sentiment.
Hell yes I am gonna tell someone how to live if their family is staring and they are out deer hunting. If someone is in poverty or welfare and they are out trying to drop a deer rather than find a source of income to find themselves or their family then yes I have a problem with it. Hunting is a privilege, and it is logical to assume that you take care of things at him 1st before you start doing the extra things. There are programs in place where deer are donated to the needy, hence said people in need food do not need to be out hunting. I have a real hard time paying taxes for a guy to go out hunting instead of looking for a way to support him/herself and family, don't you?
And hell yes I am gonna tell you about what I do because your painting me as some elitist, I am not some wealthy jerk that leases up everything I can and screws over all the locals, far from it. YOU are the one making me be out to be someone I am not and I feel obliged to defend myself from those accusations like anyone else. Its people like you spitting on my generosity and goodwill that ruins it for the others, and just because I think shooting small deer is unethical, think about that.
December 19, 2008 at 6:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
outdoorsman25 (anonymous) says...
If goodoleboy does really does take handicapped kids out for deer and turkey hunts on his land, and take kids hunting a teach them to value the animals and try to instill good ethics in the next generation of hunters. He is a standout person and outdoorsman and you all should take notes for him. He says he shoots atleast 3 does a year. There is an overpopulation of does and it's great management tactics and promotes better overall heard health of deer. Which will in return produce bigger and better bucks. A 5 pointer could be a good deer to take if it's old and will not grow into anything better, that would be called a management deer. If you hunt on your own land you do whatever you want but I just don't understand why people just go out to shoot just any buck? The satisfaction of letting a little and young 5,6,7 point go and let him grow into a bigger buck is much more satisfying of shooting alittle buck every year. Much more...you all should try it. Make it a hobby set out trail cameras, keep tabs on your little 5 point and watch him grow into a 150 inch 10 point and reak the beneifits of your own management.
December 19, 2008 at 6:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
goodoleboy (anonymous) says...
Appreciate the nod outsdoorsman, I built a wheelchair accessible blind 4 years ago and been doing deer and turkey hunts from it ever since, and I'll be damned if the handicapped hunters always get a better Tom than I do! Our ranks have been shrinking for years, I'll continue to do my best to get kids into hunting as I feel it teaches them values and life lessons they can carry on and be better individuals because of. Glad to see someone understand what I mean by conservation and management, thought I was alone there for awhile, maybe it will sink in better coming from someone else.
December 19, 2008 at 7 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
ooboy I am not spitting on your generosity and goodwill, I can commend you for it, I am however Spitting on your arrogant attitude when it comes to bragging about it. If I had read in the paper or heard on the radio from friends of yours or others about what good you do and how you help others, I would have the upmost respect, the fact that you just keep tooting your own horn shows your arrogant way.
Outdoorman says "A 5 pointer could be a good deer to take if it's old and will not grow into anything better, that would be called a management deer"
Good ol boy says,clearly good judgement and conservation has gone by the wayside when you shoot a 5 pointer
Which is it boys? Lets here your next set of new rules for hunters.
So goodolboy, would the deer outdoorman described be a "good quality deer"????? Aint that what you say to shoot?
December 19, 2008 at 8:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
"You are certainly not going to get an unbiased opinion from anyone with any position of power in the KDWP. There is a definite attitude at the top that farmers will just have to live with their decisions."
That must be why they have made so many changes to the deer hunting regulations that they have in the last 12 years? Because they arent listening to farmers? Funny, I hear alot of hunters, non-hunters, and animal activists cussing KDWP because farmers and ranchers seem to be the only group that seem to get any consideration. There were very few changes made to the regulations from 1965 to 1996. In 1996, when they were pressured into opening the borders to non-resident hunters or face lawsuits from other states while Kansas residents were denied access to hunt out of state. Every year since then, there have been multiple changes made not only to the regulations, but also to deer related State Statutes. They have liberalized access to the resource by allowing more tags every year which was attractive to the deer hunting lease investors, outfitters, and individuals from out of state. They've offered multiple antlerless tags, special doe seasons, and offered extended antlerless only seasons. They've made their weapons regulations less strict to allow access to more people, did away with alot of mandatory hunter education requirements so it was easier for NR hunters to come here. They've allowed NR hunters to be able to get antelope tags over the counter when resident hunters haven't been able to draw one after applying seven years in a row. That change came at the request of a rancher(s) out West because resident hunters wouldn't pay to hunt their "problem animals" out there either. Up until last year, they allowed landowners to get half the NR deer tags issued. These tags gave the applicant the ability to resell(scalp) them to the highest bidder. I'm proud to say I was involved in getting that unjustified and unethical program discontinued. I can provide you many more examples if you'd like. I do believe, because of your bias against KDWP, you are one that chooses to dislike KDWP because they refuse to turn total control of the wildlife resources over to farmers.
Are you aware of the various programs they offer landowners to deal with deer population claims? Hunter Referral, Deer Depridation tags, HYL tags? There are others.
Read the fine print of the CRP and other farm subsidy program contracts. If you participate in any of those programs, you are in fact being compensated for wildlife damages in those payments.
I won't be coming to ask for permission to hunt your land, I don't need anymore than what I can already hunt. Nor will I ever pay you or anyone else to help manage your wildlife population. You thinking you need paid for hunting access is as absurd to me as it would be if I demanded you to pay me to fix your deer problem(that could be easily remedied).
December 20, 2008 at 9:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
outdoorsman25 (anonymous) says...
LIFEGOESON...
A year in a half old or two in a half year old 5 point buck would be a bad buck to take because it is young and has the potential to grow into a great buck in a few years. However a 4 in a half or 5 in a half year old 5 point will not grow any bigger so that is called a management deer. You shoot that old 5 point to get his genes out of the heard. Like I said before a first time hunter or a kid should shoot anything they want. In this day in age in deer management you judge deer by how old they are...not just if they are a 6 point..8 point and so on. If I saw a 3 in a half year old 10 point that scored 150 inches I would not shoot that deer because he hasn't reached his prime yet and next year he'll be a 4 in a half year old 170 in monster. But if you're going to shoot a little buck....shot a doe and let that little buck grow into a BIG old buck and reak the benefits of you passing up that little buck 3 years earlier. I just don't understand why people just go out and see horns and shoot? Shoot a doe.
December 20, 2008 at 12:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
outdoorsman25 (anonymous) says...
For those of who you don't view goodoleboys and my comments go ahead and check out articles from the professionals at qdma.com, or any other outdoor website field and stream for example, they all will tell you shooting young little deer is not good, let the little ones go and let them grow bigger; and then you people who don't have a clue about managing deer might get a clue
December 20, 2008 at 12:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
glarson (anonymous) says...
Time to move this discussion:
http://www.emporiagazette.com/forums/...
December 20, 2008 at 6:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LifeGoesOn (anonymous) says...
outdoorsman25, Thanks for the lesson, I hate to say it and I dont really care, but If and when I hunt, I dont see a doe to shoot, (as I have said before) I will shoot what comes along, be it a little buck or a monster, I'm not in it for a trophy and according to YOU and Goodolboy and just about Everybody else in this area, there are Many Deer and I dont think me shooting whatever the hell i want is going to put deer on the endangered species list. As Goodolboy said, he shoots 3 deer every year. That MUST mean that there are PLENTY of "quality bucks" out there to keep the herd going. Oh and BTW, I have hunted for about 20 yrs now and have shot two bucks less than 6 points. So forgive the hell out of me for not "managing" the deer herd better. I get so damn tired of hearing all the so called "self appointed" experts telling me what to shoot and when to shoot it. I abide by the laws and that gives me the RIGHT to shoot what I want, regardless of how you or goodolboy feel about it. get over yourselves.
I also have no doubt you and goodolboy have shot at the VERY LEAST 10 times as many deer as I have shot, and on top of that, I would bet you have those big old antlers hung on your wall showing your manhood for all your friends to see. there is a big difference to me between hunting for food and hunting for a sport,hobby and for a trophy. I'll leave the management to you two and you leave the food gathering to me
December 20, 2008 at 6:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )