Retail project proposed on 24th
By Bobbi Mlynar
Originally published 10:14 p.m., August 13, 2008
Updated 12:17 p.m., August 14, 2008
Elvis Lindquist is trying to see both sides of a proposal to change his neighborhood from a residential area to a commercial development site.
Lindquist and other property owners around 24th Avenue and Industrial Road recently received letters notifying them that a public meeting had been set about a proposed zoning change for commercial development on the northeast side of the intersection.
The meeting will be this evening at 6 o’clock in the conference room of the Flint Hills Technical College.
Lindquist, whose property abuts the east side of the proposed development area, recalled that the property earlier had been under consideration for development by D.J. Christie.
David Christie and city commissioners had discussed the potential for getting tax incentives to help finance a Home Depot at that location. The city did not have tax incentives for retail businesses then, and the talks ended without a zoning application being made.
Now, the possibility exists for such tax relief.
In June 2007, the city commission voted 4-1 in favor of a policy allowing tax-increment financing (TIFs) and transportation development districts (TDDs) to attract businesses.
Under a TIF, the cost of developing a property is repaid by the additional property taxes it generates. A TDD uses city bonds to make improvements at a property, such as roads and utilities, with repayment through taxes at that particular business.
Lindquist said he was able to see several sides of the issue of commercial development in his neighborhood and, in particular, adjacent to his home and the seven acres that surround it.
He had heard rumors about the companies that might be interested in the property, and used Lowe’s as the example in his remarks.
“I’m not interested in having them next door,” Lindquist said. “Now, hey, if they want to buy our property, that’s negotiable as well, because I can relocate.
“I’m not against what’s good for Emporia, if you think a Lowe’s is good, or whatever. What I am against is people coming in and disrupting what you’ve got. I wouldn’t have bought my house if it was next to Lowe’s.”
The Lindquist property holds a multi-story home with a large pond behind that his children and neighbors use for fishing. He said the children also enjoy interacting with the horses that graze in the adjoining property.
It’s not something that he wants to give up, or see changed, but business and the city also have to be served, he said.
Changing traffic, building up the property’s elevation and installing infrastructure and streets all would be expensive.
“And when you’re dealing with $30 million (in gross revenues), if you’ve got to spend a couple of million dollars more to get things done, you’re gonna get that back,” he said.
The potential depreciation of his property concerned Lindquist, but he said that he could be satisfied if a retail company would reimburse him for that depreciation and build a brick wall to match the front of his house between his property and the development.
Other property owners may be supportive, he said, if similar compromises could be worked out.
Lindquist was concerned, however, that the low-paying jobs that seem to follow retail stores would not be good for the community. Jobs in manufacturing and industry generally are far better paying than in retail.
“There’s about 2,200 good people out there that want to work, and I believe that,” Lindquist said. “I think Emporia’s second to none, and I don’t understand why more people aren’t migrating to Emporia. ... We may be going the wrong direction.”
A Lowe’s, or other box store, could bring substantial benefits despite the low-paying jobs.
Lindquist has heard that a Lowe’s here could produce total gross revenue of about $30 million — with sales tax amounting to $1.17 million — and that Emporians and Lyon Countians already are spending much of that gross revenue at Lowe’s stores outside this area.
“Now the taxes, if there’s $30 million in revenue spent being outsourced right now, (the development) makes sense to me,” he said. “I can talk about that, that makes sense.”
Lindquist said that being reasonable is going to be key as discussions move forward — or stall — on the development proposal.
“I really feel like I don’t want to be in the way of improvements for Emporia, but they really have to take care of, I think, the people around here and get them satisfied,” he said. “They should have to compensate for depreciation or go ahead and buy your home out.
“I think fair is fair. And if that happens, it happens, and if it don’t, we’ll just have to see, legally, go up the step, the ladder, and see what can be done.”
Papering the neighbors
An anonymous person or group of people apparently distributed flyers this week in mailboxes at many homes in the area under discussion.
Emporia Postmaster Roger Clark cautioned this morning that such materials cannot be left in mail receptacles, which are only for postage-paid letters and packages delivered by United States Postal Service workers.
Mail carriers brought in a number of copies of the flyers to Clark on Wednesday.
Clark said that because many people do not realize the mail receptacles cannot be used for such unauthorized deliveries, he usually issues a warning.
“If they do it again, we can go back, try to figure out how many they put out, and charge postage for it,” Clark said. “... The main thing is, just don’t do it, and we’ll be fine.”
The flyer, entitled “Informational Neighborhood Meeting,” asked recipients to consider:
• the effect to established local businesses
• tax increase to cover expansion of 24th Avenue
• trash and debris blowing through neighborhoods
• increased traffic, including semi-tractor trailers
• local children riding bicycles or walking to schools nearby
joetraveler (anonymous) says...
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
August 13, 2008 at 11:04 p.m. ( permalink )
TacoBellB (anonymous) says...
Try a different plant.
August 14, 2008 at 8:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
esuhornets (anonymous) says...
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
August 14, 2008 at 8:18 a.m. ( permalink )
ddarbro (anonymous) says...
www.claremoreexpo.com
Anyone interested in bringing outside money into Emporia and sales tax revenue into Emporia instead of from its residence should take a look at this website. Claremore is a small town in Oklahoma with an expo center that brings in all kinds of events and revenue to this small town. Emporia's Development Committee should look at the 30 acres at the corner of Graphic Arts Road and Hwy 50. What a great location for such an Expo Center. Half way between Wichita and Kansas City and just off the turnpike. They should look at a bond issue for such a development. I believe the community would be behind such a development and Emporia could host larger events and bring much needed revenue into the community. Check it out. www.claremoreexpo.com We need to grow our community from the outside in.
August 14, 2008 at 9:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dhcc66 (anonymous) says...
umm...we have an "expo center" and it's called the White Auditorium. With a few more parking stalls and some renovations that are going on currently, we should probably keep up with anything in our area. There are dozens of events held there every month and I think at this point our "bond issues" are "taxed out"...so to speak. Emporia needs to catch itsself up financially and then figure out how to grow.
August 14, 2008 at 10:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Bjnemp (anonymous) says...
dhcc66: How funny! Comparing White Auditorium to a legitimate expo center. Now, that's funny! Yeah. Maybe we could book Carrie Underwood there. Or bring in The Rolling Stones. Yak! That was a good one, dhcc66!
August 14, 2008 at 11:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kaylees_nana (anonymous) says...
No one will even drive to Emporia to see a big name act at the county fair. Emporia needs to figure out how to bring in the manufacturing jobs that other cities are getting. Retail jobs pay nothing. When Emporia does get manufaturing jobs the companies hire through temp agencies to keep the pay low and avoid paying benefits. How is Emporia going to support big retail with the local economy the way it is? I am amazed that Lowes would even consider it. I think that Emporia needs to adopt a new attitude with developers. Instead of asking "What can we do for you" and handing the developer everything and making tax payers pay through the nose Emporia should be asking "What will you do for us and our families?".
August 14, 2008 at 12:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
GOODONE (anonymous) says...
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
August 14, 2008 at 1:02 p.m. ( permalink )
tosie (anonymous) says...
This comment was removed by the site staff for violation of the usage agreement.
August 14, 2008 at 1:14 p.m. ( permalink )
dhcc66 (anonymous) says...
ok, did anybody bother to look on the website for claremore?? it's expo hall holds less than what white auditorium does...geez. now, if you want to hold an event on the "dirt arena", it holds about the same number of people. even then it's a DIRT arena. and, from what i see on their calendar, they only hold church services and horse riding events there...OH WAIT!!!! there is one monster truck show....ooooohhhhhh....
they don't hold sporting events there, they don't hold conventions there, they don't hold music events there.....geee..i don't even see carrie underwood on the schedule..maybe you can point her out for me bj?
August 14, 2008 at 1:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ddarbro (anonymous) says...
Yes, comparing the White Auditorium to the Claremore Expo is like comparing our "Multi-Million Dollar" Courthouse to the courthouse on Andy of Mayberry. The location is not ideal and the parking is atrocious. Claremore is a town of a little over 17000 people and the Expo there brings in over 100,000 visitors a year to Claremore, along with their money. Since opening in 1999 their attendance to events and the revenue to the city and county has grown. From 2004 to 2005 attendance grew almost 10% and these people shop, book hotels, eat and leave tax revenue. We have to start thinking out of the box and not depend on our residence to catch us up financially. An expo would also not compete, but help the downtown merchants. They would be able to advertise at the expo and sponser events. Keep an open mind and lets send our development folks to Claremore for a look. It's close and they might learn something.
August 14, 2008 at 1:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ddarbro (anonymous) says...
Ok. If you want Big or Carrie Underwood look at www.ksexpo.com . Or maybe we could look at something in between. Its not the size of the Expo but the concept.
August 14, 2008 at 1:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dhcc66 (anonymous) says...
ddarbro...
we already have most of the facilities in emporia that are at the claremore expo. if the county had been more forward thinking and let the retailers buy the fairgrounds...maybe we could have already had an expo center on the fairgrounds somwhere close to the city in the county....as it is, their expo center is smaller than what we have already and i'd bet that with just the 6A basketball and ESU games alone we attract more than what you are saying they do in a year....again also, look at what they schedule...4h horse rides and church.
as far as who is coming where, the problem doesn't seem to be who we let come here but how we are thinking about doing things. why do we want to put a Lowes or whatever is coming here on the west side that is already getting too crowded and outgrowing it's traffic capacity already?? you think that driving up industrial is impossible now..just wait til there's another big retail store.
why don't we put it somewhere around the northeast or southeast side of town?? for that matter...don't we have a bunch of land out west on 50 where the city wants to keep expanding to anyway?
i would vote to put it somewhere else...
August 14, 2008 at 2:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
photobuggy2 (anonymous) says...
Emporia is getting almost as bad as Topeka...most of the major retail is on Wanamaker, and its made for nothing but a big mess, when it comes to traffic.
Emporia does need to look outside the box. White Auditorium would be a great place to have lots more large events if the parking situation was better.
One of the reasons people don't want to relocate here are the high taxes!
August 14, 2008 at 2:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
emporian (anonymous) says...
If they would get the construction projects done, I dont think traffic would be as bad as it is. Graphic Arts is out of commission and KDOT is rerouting traffic off of W. 50 up industrial to get on either the Interstate or the Turnpike. If we get these projects done then I believe it will be much easier to get around.
August 14, 2008 at 2:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
The Fairgrounds is beginning to look like a bigger and bigger white elephant.
August 14, 2008 at 3:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kaylees_nana (anonymous) says...
The fair grounds were not sold because it is in a Trust. It was given to Emporia as long as it was used for a Free Fair. As soon as that stops happening, it goes to the Salvation Army Church. The developers and the Commisioners did not want to compinsate the Church in any way. Therefore the deal fell through because of greed!
August 14, 2008 at 4:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Thanks for the info kaylee's nana. I understand now why the deal fell through. Nonetheless, that still doesn't negate my opinion about the white elephant.
August 14, 2008 at 4:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dhcc66 (anonymous) says...
is that a rumor or truth? i knew about the trust and that it was to be used for only the fairgrounds....but the salvation army church?? i doubt that..in fact i'm not sure it's been around as long as the fairgrounds have been....has to be a way to check into that
gwen, can you help us out on that one?
August 14, 2008 at 4:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kaylees_nana (anonymous) says...
It is a fact. It was brought up at a commission meeting by a family memeber who donated the land. A rep from the Church was also there.
August 14, 2008 at 5:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kaylees_nana (anonymous) says...
It is a fact. It was brought up at a commission meeting by a family memeber of the man who donated the land. A rep from the Church was also there.
August 14, 2008 at 5:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
4Jayhawks (anonymous) says...
The fairgrounds would convert to "The Salvation Army", and from what I recall it was not that the commissioner and developers didn't want to compensate the "church". I believe it had more to do with the fight to "save the fairgrounds" that made the deal fall through. The Salvation Army has been in Emporia for 113 or 114 years.
August 14, 2008 at 9:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ROYALSFAN (anonymous) says...
I have read the Gazette blogs since the beginning and find them very interesting. Just a thought about the "Development" If a Lowes or Home Depot or some other type of home improvement warehouse comes in would that really be good for Emporia? I may be totally wrong but wouldn't one of these stores affect oh say Hills, Guions. Sutherlands, Waters, Mark II,and/or Bluestem Farm and Ranch just to name a few. Emporia needs something besides another retailer or restuarant. These types of businesses are nice, but who has the extra money to go to them. I think Emporia has bounced back quite nicely in recent months but I just dont want to see a bunch more VACANT buildings all over town. Kind of like the railcar restuarant that just sold. Just one more thing that left Emporia. Well I have complained enough bye all.
August 14, 2008 at 9:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
wyse_guy (anonymous) says...
elvis must have made all of his cash down south with his moving business. maybe he should worry about getting his new warehouse going. by the way does anyone know what types of things will be shipped in and out of the warehouse? everytime something new wants to come to emporia all anyone can do is COMPLAIN! Buy some tums and get over it already.
August 15, 2008 at 12:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Speaking of COMPLAINING, wyse_guy, weren't you just complaining about the condition of the grass in front of the helicopter because it got torn up during the painting project and the city would have to correct it? You know the one, the project that was all-volunteer labor with all-donated funds, material and equipment? Did you run out of Tums?
August 15, 2008 at 5:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
wyse_guy (anonymous) says...
this thread is about new development everytime someone thinks of locating here everyone bitches and complains about it but then bitch because the town continues to lose businesses and revenue. try sticking to the topic create . the white elephant or the mud a thon with the lift has nothing to do with this thread. complaining about a mess that could have been avoided has nothing to do with new business development.
August 15, 2008 at 7:29 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Weltha (anonymous) says...
From reading wyse_guy's comments on this thread the helicopter thread that he must have woke up on the wrong side of the bed or is just bored. Or I guess he could just be one of those people that just likes to rile people up for what ever reason. JMO
August 15, 2008 at 9:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
tosie (anonymous) says...
I don't know why my comment was removed, so I guess I'll just state my opinion again. Elvis, please seek out another place in Emporia to develop commercial property.....keep it away from the residential area where the traffic is already so bad and there are plenty of other areas to build. The Industrial corridor is so jam packed and hard to get around as it is. What about the empty site where Big Lots was? That's an eyesore that needs something done with it.....
August 15, 2008 at 10:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nutsaboutools (anonymous) says...
I agree with ddarbro, in that the west side of Emporia, along Hwy 50 is ideal for large retail development. Once we begin attracting large retail (and start building the revenue it generates) we can begin attracting more large industries (through tax incentives). Although I don't want to discourage prospective retailers, such as Lowes from locating in Emporia, I don't think the Industrial Rd/24th street option is a good one.
August 15, 2008 at 11:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
nutsaboutools (anonymous) says...
In regards to the comments made by ROYALSFAN; I don't think a place such as Lowes or Home Depot will ever replace the excellent service and customer support we find at Waters, Blue Stem, Mark II etc. Matter of fact, you might even find more business. People will go to the Lowes, Home Depots, etc. for the bargains and possibly lower prices (not to mention not traveling to Wichita, Topeka or Olathe/Kansas City). While they're "in-town" they will likely be attracted to the many other "specialty" retailers that Emporia has to offer. We moved here from Liverpool, NY and we've seen it happen there after living there for over 15 years. Liverpool is now quite prosperous (especially the schools, employment opportunities and taxes were stable the last 5 years we were there).
August 15, 2008 at 11:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
esuhornets (anonymous) says...
tosie,
Maybe you should read the article again. Elvis is not the person who is trying to develop this property. He owns the house and property next to this land.
August 15, 2008 at 11:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandyestabrook (anonymous) says...
tosie- I agree about the old Big Lots site so does anyone know why that hasn't sold? There are plenty of other empty spaces around that could and should be developed. I still hope for a nice big grocery store and remain upset that the Dillons store on Industrial was closed and not reopened somewhere else. I know people who are making trips to Topeka for groceries on a bi-weekly or monthly basis car pooling because of the gas situation. The employees at the small Dillons try hard to accommodate customers but they are limited with space and product available. Too bad they couldn't go into the mall and then we would have had a great deli and possibly sit down restaurant, sea food, post office, bank and floral shop all under one roof. Sorry but this is still irritating to me. Another missed opportunity for Emporia.
August 15, 2008 at 12:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
orlando (anonymous) says...
What about the hotel that was supposed to be built on the land where the eastside Burger King was? That building has just been sitting there. Or that eyesore motel at Merchant and I-35? If not a motel or apartment complex, tear it down and put in something that looks good and is worthwhile. That building is acquiring a "Bates-motel" look. The one window has been out for months, but no one seems to care. The "For Sale" sign is so small that it can hardly be seen, and the grass is growing up over it.
If that property at 24th & Industrial were to be developed, 24th avenue would have to be redone also---it is too narrow now, that will take land from Presby and from the landowners along there to do that too.
As previously said, why has nothing happened at the Big Lots area? How about another Big Lots? (I really liked that store.)
The old Modine plant sits there; I understand it needed roof repair, but hasn't that been done yet? I understand Mr. Lindquist is part owner, how about selling it to Lowes or whoever, and get a business in there. A storage company could go into an industrial park area. Or the area that KB Thomas was going to develop into a mall or something--is that still going to happen?
August 15, 2008 at 2:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )