Posted by traceygraham (anonymous) on May 3, 2008 at 6:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Thought I'd see if anyone had posted any comments on the Farmers' Market story and found the text for 'Because You Asked' instead.

No wonder no one has anything to say about the market!

Posted by create (anonymous) on May 3, 2008 at 7:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I wonder what the Farmers' Market will have to offer today since its been so cold? Lettuce? Spinach? New day lillies? I guess I'll just amble down there this morning.

Posted by glarson (Gwen Larson) on May 3, 2008 at 10:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Tracey,

My sincere apologies that the mistake was made and not caught until today. Unfortunately, I'm sitting in a meeting in Wilson KS and can't fix it now. But Brandy Nance is coming in later today to replace the copy. Then we'll get some comments about Farmers Market.

Hope the first session of 2008 went well this morning.

Gwen Larson
Managing Editor

Posted by orlando (anonymous) on May 3, 2008 at 7:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I was there, it was cold, but there was a good turnout. I have a rhubarb pie in the oven, made with the rhubarb I got at the farmers market. Yum.
several baked goodies there. One man had LOTS of tomato plants for sale. I wonder if he sold them all.

Well worth getting out in the chill for.

Posted by Kstrebuchet (anonymous) on May 5, 2008 at 6:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Tracey Graham, Sounds like you are doing a fine job with the market, Thanks for your work and time. I know we didnt see eye to eye on past furums But, I have a question, and I'm not trying to stir the pot, it's just a question. You said,"the market collects fees from the vendors but that only covers about 40 percent of the market’s cost"

What are the market costs? What do the fees go for?, I thought it was people pulling their trucks into a parking lot and selling their plants, jams, jellies and vegetables.
, I dont see the costs involved? I understand there are some costs for organizing the event/day. but if (Volunteer) opportunities include running the kiosk at each market, helping with special events, maintenance of equipment, data collection, data analysis and grant writing. What costs are left?
Thanks again, I ways enjoy the market!

Posted by traceygraham (anonymous) on May 5, 2008 at 10:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Sorry my computer's been in the shop all weekend and I've only just now had a chance to sign in at my office. I have to run to a meeting right now, but will respond to all comments/questions when I get back.

Thanks Gwen and Brandy for fixing the glitch. And thanks for writing the article in the first place!

I'll be back this afternoon to answer you Create and Kstreb - you ask very good questions! Thanks for coming down Orlando. Yes it was cold, but it was the best birthday I've had in years!!!! I loved seeing all my market friends after all these months!

Posted by traceygraham (anonymous) on May 5, 2008 at 4:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

If you want to know what's at the market each week, subscribe to the email newsletter. It's free and it's never more than 2 pages, because we don't want to fill up people's inboxes with junk they don't need. The first page details what's at the market, and the second page is some sort of info related to the market - Vendor Profiles, nutirional info, recipes, special events, etc...

Also - New this year: On Saturday mornings, I'll be calling in to KVOE just before the market starts with a list of what's there, and they will broadcast that at 7:55, just before the bell rings at 8:00. A number of people came to market on Saturday because they had heard it on the radio. Quite a few came just because they heard we had our breakfast burrito fundraiser (made from all local ingredients).

To get an idea of what to expect in general at different times of the year, consult the 8-page tab that came out in last Wednesday's newspaper. It's full of market info, including a couple of tables to show when different types of produce can be expected. If you didn't get a copy of the tab with your paper, or if you only read the Gazette online, send me your address (I'm at tlcfh@yahoo.com, or 343-6555) and I'll be happy to mail you a copy.

Posted by create (anonymous) on May 5, 2008 at 5:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks for the info, Tracey. One thing I've learned for sure over the years. If you're not there right at 8 o'clock to buy vegetables, more than likely, you're out of luck. I got there at 8:30 Saturday and just about everything was already gone.

Posted by traceygraham (anonymous) on May 5, 2008 at 5:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

OK Kstreb - your turn! I'm glad you asked those questions because I don't think very many people realize what it takes to run a Farmers' Market.

PART ONE: EXPENSES
Our annual expenses run roughly $17K. I say roughly because part of the expense is the sales tax on everything that's sold at the market; and because gross sales vary, so does the amount that is paid in taxes. These expenses break down like this:
1) Direct market expenses (Sales tax, promotion, supplies)~$4.5K
2) Operating Expenses (mileage, incorporation fees, memberships, staff education, etc.):~$1K
3) Office Expenses (rent, phone, internet, computer, etc.):~$4K
4) The highest single expense is personnel - a high-priced part-time individual (me) rakin' in the big bucks at ~$7.5K for the year. It's my job to deal with the city and state entities involved with the market, make sure taxes get paid, plan and carry out market special events, coordinate board meetings, recruit new vendors and promote the market to the public, and basically do everything that needs to be done to make sure the market runs smoothly. There are no benefits assoicated with the job, and when I'm working the market itself (manning the kiosk, answering questions, directing traffic, etc.), I'm doing that as a volunteer.

Posted by traceygraham (anonymous) on May 5, 2008 at 5:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

PART TWO: INCOME
On the income side: we collect that 15% from the vendors (so we expect ~$7K this year based on an average of the last five years), so we need to bring in a little more than $10K from other sources to break even. My goal is to obtain that $10K in roughly equal amounts from 3 main sources: Advertising/Sponsorships, Grants/Fundraisers, and Donations/Friends of the Market. By diversifying our income sources, we should be able to build some reserves and achieve long-term sustainability.

The great news is - we're close to half way to our goal on A/S, and about a third of the way there on G/F. We just rolled out the Friends program last week, and I've already received my first three members!

I know there are a lot of demands on people's wallets these days, and that every time you turn around there's yet another good cause that deserves our support. This is such a generous community. We've seen people respond to calls for help from the Granada, the Arts Council, the Sertoma Train, Peter Pan Park, the Municipal Band, the Zoo, the Library, the Historical Society... and on and on. I hope that people also look at the market as one of the institutions that improves the quality of life in Emporia to the extent that they're willing to become a market member. Or to volunteer to help at the market.

And I think that with a budget of just $17K per year, a small contribution really goes a long way with us. It is absolutely critical that we not have to increase vendor fees, because they'd have to pass that on to the customers and the vendors are making pretty slim margins for their hard work as it is.

If anyone ever wants a detailed account of our expenses and income, I'd be happy to mail or email them a copy. Just send a request via phone, (343-6555), email (tlcfh@yahoo.com) or mail (702 Commercial, B-3). I'm also happy to answer any questions any time.

Seriously, Treb, thanks for asking!!!

Posted by Kstrebuchet (anonymous) on May 5, 2008 at 6:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Tracy, thanks for the info, I understand 2,3 and 4 Ok, but I have a few more questions on #1, Direct market expenses (Sales tax, promotion, supplies)~$4.5K
Could you talk more on sales tax? Dont the people selling their veggies,etc pay sales tax on Their Income? what sales tax are you talking about?
As far as promotion, do you mean ads in the paper and raidio and newsletter? Oh, and I noticed you have internet, do you advertise on the web also?
Has anyone approched the city or county to help with the budget? And lastly, on rent, are you (farmers market) the only one in that office or is rent a shared expense?, Sorry for asking so many questions but I am finding hard to believe it cost so much to have people sell veggies and pies in a parking lot. Please dont take that last comment wrong, I only meant, I had No idea!

I just figured a couple ads were put in the paper and a brief radio spot with some contact info, people came, paid a fee for a space (to someone?) and let down the tailgate and sold some stuff for a little extra cash for gas money.

Posted by traceygraham (anonymous) on May 5, 2008 at 8:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

More good questions, Treb.

Because we collect the sales tax, the vendors don't have to file theirs separately - get a tax ID number, do all the paperwork, etc. At many markets, vendors have to take care of all that themselves, and those friendly folks from the state check up on them to make sure they're doing so.
Promotion means the paper, radio, Shopper, Chamber newsletter, Main Street newsletter, etc., and it also means printing fliers, market money, signage for the market, and me getting out there and talking to people about the market and how it benefits the community. If we were just sitting back waiting for people to drift by the parking lot, our customer base would be small. Word of mouth is the very best advertising there is, and of course our happy customers are great at that, but somebody has to be there to answer the phones and emails to get info about how to become a vendor, what all the state and local food laws are, how to participate in the Senior Nutrition Program, and so on.
Time was when people could just pull into a lot, put up a sign and sell stuff, but there are all kinds of regulations regarding what can and cannot be sold (legally) and it takes a coordinated effort to put it all together.
All over the country, new markets are forming, and wading through the red tape can be a very complicated process. Because we're so well established (into our 2nd quarter century now!) we've got a great head start. But it still takes promotion to let people know what's there and when, and to plan specical events to bring in more customers, which will lead to more vendors, which will lead to more customers, etc.
Like pretty much everything, I guess, if you're not moving forward, you're going backward... No way to stay in place without putting in a lot of effort!

Oh yeah you asked about the internet. We pay for an internet connection at the office. We want to get a website running, but it hasn't gotten into the budget yet.

Posted by Kstrebuchet (anonymous) on May 5, 2008 at 9:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks Tracy, Your comment "Time was when people could just pull into a lot, put up a sign and sell stuff but there are all kinds of regulations regarding what can and cannot be sold (legally) "

Does this mean that those people I see selling corn,mellons,pies,tomatos ,cakes,fruit and even shoes in other parking lots (not at the farmers market) around town during the summer are not allowed by state and local food laws to do so?

I dont know if I overlooked it or maybe you might have missed one question, Has anyone approached the city or county about helping with funding? I mean they seem to have money for a band, I would think they could throw in a grand or so per year to help with this, I think just as many people enjoy the market as they do a band,clock tower or a pool thats continues to lose money.

Posted by traceygraham (anonymous) on May 6, 2008 at 8:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I apologize for implying that there may be others doing things illegally elsewhere in town. Sales in private parking lots require arrangements with the lot's owners, and I assume all legality issues are taken care of through agreements between those two parties - liability, sales taxes, all that sort of stuff. I'm sure someone would shut down, or at least fine, any illegal operations. Don't know that for sure, though- just assumptions I'm making.

Selling any kind of fresh produce is legal in this state, as long as the state gets its taxes. There are standards designed to protect the consumer (cleanliness, no deceptive practices allowed, etc.). MOST baked goods are also legal, as are jams and jellies. For health safety reasons, certain foods are only allowed for sale if they are produced in a certified, state-inspected facility, and maintained a suitable temperature for the particular item. These include meats, dairy products, most canned goods (except for jams and jellies), and prepared foods containing meat or dairy products. Therefore - breads are fine as long as they're not cheese breads, and fruit pies are in, cream and custard pies are out, etc.

Hot ready-to-eat foods also must be sold only by licensed parties. The exception to this is for charitable fundraisers (up to 7 of them a year by any one charitable organization). Thank goodness for this exception - without it groups would have to get special licenses in order to have soup suppers, chili feeds, fish fries, and - heaven forbid! - breakfast burrito fundraisers.

As for shoes - there are no food safety rules. Like anything else sold directly to the consumer in this state, sales tax must be paid. And obviously a seller wouldn't be allowed to set up in a way that violated traffic laws, signage standards, zoning laws, etc.

Other details are up to the property owner and the seller. In some cases, the lot owner charges a fee for selling there, requires that the seller carry X amount of dollars in liability insurance, and is in no way responsible for the quality of the product sold in their lot. They are simply renting out the space.

In the case of the EFM, the city owns the lot we use, and we are immensely grateful they allow us to use it. We are also grateful for the understanding and tolerance of the downtown merchants who also use the lot. We don't have to pay rent to the city, and we don't ask the city for money.

I've only been with the market for 5 years and don't know if TLC ever asked the city or county for $ before that. I don't see it in the TLC history summaries that I've read, but I have to admit that I have not read through 35+ years worth of board minutes. In today's climate, I think it would be a major act of hubris to ask for tax dollars to help the market. I know I would rather see my tax dollars be used for essential services.

Posted by traceygraham (anonymous) on May 6, 2008 at 8:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

continued...

The market really needs to be self-sustaining. The vendors already pay their share. We're now asking that local businesses help to sponsor the market and local citizens support it to whatever extent they are comfortable with. I look at it like public broadcasting - you don't have to pay to use it, but if you appreciate it and want it to continue and you CAN afford to help keep it going, then you really ought to. That way it''s there for the folks who cannot afford to pay a little extra to ensure a supply of high quality-local produce.

I realized right after I signed off last night to go walk my dogs in the rain that I forgot to answer your question about rent... We're housed in a little bitty basement office in the Kress Building. The owners (John and Sophie Mallon - thank you thank you thank you) give us a nice break on the rent and I doubt we could do better pretty much anywhere in town. And the cost of moving would be ugly - we have >35 years of archived Learning Connection stuff in there... As far as sharing with someone, we do have an extra desk I could clean off... If you know of anyone looking to sub-rent desk space, let me know! ;)

Posted by Kstrebuchet (anonymous) on May 6, 2008 at 1:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Please dont take offence because I think the farmer market is a good thing and those who help with making sure we have one need to be thanked, But, it seems to me that ads in the gazette and a few radio spots telling when and where people can sell their goods would be enough, if venders have veggies and the like and want to sell them, they will show up and sell them, if people want to buy these goods, they will. the venders should be responsible for paying their own taxes just as they should if they were selling at a flea market or garage sale or even on the internet. if all these expenses (17K per yr) are because the market is on city parking, why not just move the market to a Private lot. I dont have all the answers, and I think your doing a heck of a job, it just seems like a pretty expensive way to sell bread and onions. It averages to about $1400.00 per month,

Posted by traceygraham (anonymous) on May 7, 2008 at 8:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

One of my most important jobs is correcting misconceptions about the market. It's clear I've failed with KSTreb. I hope that my efforts at explaining how the market works and why it matters and why it deserves community support have been more successful with people who actually shop at, and sell at, and have businesses that benefit from the increased traffic due to, the market. If we don't get the support we're asking for, we could indeed wind up with a market that _is_ nothing more than people selling bread and onions out of their pickups. Seriously.

Please keep in mind that the average of $1400 a month includes more than $200 a month in sales taxes that go to support state and local services.
And the money taken in by vendors stays in our community, thus generating additional sales taxes when vendors buy the things they need to produce their products.
And it employs one person part time, thus generating income taxes.
And the vendors pay income tax on the slim profits they manage to make by providing their products at affordable prices.

Those tax dollars are a drop in the bucket, but every contribution made to the tax base means those dollars don't have to come from elsewhere.

By collecting the sales tax for all the vendors - large and small - we increase compliance with tax laws, and make it easy for vendors to sell without having to hassle with the paperwork.
It also means Dept of Revenue doesn't have to send someone down here from Topeka to ensure that taxes are actually getting paid.
It also makes it easier on the smallest vendors. Someone who sells less than $50 in a market day isn't going to even break even if they have to pay a (for example) $10 booth fee each market, pay for whatever it takes to make, bake or grow their products, and pay the taxes on top of that. Our farmers and bakers deserve more than that for their hard work.

Since Treb is into averages, let's take that $17K and divide it by the total of 46 market days. This way, costs are about $390 per market, and about $60 of those are sales tax. I don't know much about business, but I doubt there are many that could function on $330 a day.

We aren't asking for tax money to support us. We're asking for the people who benefit from the market - who "get" it that supporting local farmers is good for the local economy, that buying fresh local produce is good for the consumer, that buying local _anything_ is good for the environment (I could go on) - to support the market and make it possible to continue it.

If you read the 8-page tab that came out last week, you know there's a lot more happening at the market than just people selling bread and onions. If you'd like a copy of the tab, send me an email at tlcfh@yahoo.com with your address and I'll mail you one. Or you can pick one up (anonymously) in the lobby of the Kress building, at the FM kiosk, or at the Chamber office, or at a good number of local businesses.

Posted by traceygraham (anonymous) on May 7, 2008 at 9:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Create- I'm sorry I missed your comment about 8:30 Saturday morning...

I understand your disappointment at the lack of produce left at 8:30. This early in the season, especailly with such a cool spring, supplies are not high. We did have lettuce, spinach, rhubarb (gone in 5 minutes), asparagus, green onions and turnip greens. After a long winter, people snapped them up pretty quickly.

Later in the season, we will have a vast variety of produce in abundance and there will be plenty left to buy at 8:30, 9:00, 9:30. Still, no matter what, the items in the shortest supply are going to go first. Most vendors get there between 7 and 7:30. Customers start arriving around 7:30, check out what's available and know where they want to be when the bell rings at 8. The early birds... well you know the saying.

One of the primary goals of current market eforts is to increase the supply by having more vendors bringing more produce. Thus bringing more customers. Thus inspiring more people to become vendors and encouraging existing vendors to produce and bring more as well. Thus bringing more customers, etc. We hope the increased number of special events at this year's market will also expand the customer base.

Another major goal is to encourage vendors to bring more than they expect to sell, so that they don't sell out so quickly. Vendors are happy when they sell out, because it means they can go home and get working in the garden for the next market's supply, or take a well-earned rest. But that leads to disappointment among shoppers, some of whom will not come back to later markets. Customer satisfaction is critical to the health of the market.

Word-of-mouth is also essential. Positive comments about the market bring others in. Negative ones keep people away. So please please please readers, when reading about on the lack of produce at 8:30 on May 3, do not extrapolate that to the lack of produce year 'round!

Posted by Kstrebuchet (anonymous) on May 7, 2008 at 10:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Tracy, you have made a few things clear for me, I didnt mean to offend anyone, Let me start over here by telling you my experience with the market, I shop the market every chance I get, which may not be more than 10 to 12 times a year, when I go , I see approx 20 to 30 vendors (somewhere in those figures) selling veggies,plants,breads,etc. I buy what looks good and what I think I need/want. I have not heard radio ads,read the newsletter,seen in the gazette of the market, I usally just happen to be going by and see the signs for the market while going to the bank or post office. I guess I must have went on days when it was just people in pickups selling their goods, I didnt notice all the other " special events "you talk about that are happening ( maybe I was just there at the wrong time), so I was not aware of anything but pickups and veggies. So when you tell me it takes approx $330 per day, what I see is, someone is paying $330 Per day to be able to have some gardeners sell their goods in a parking lot.
I can appreicate the work you do and the time involved, I truely dont mean to offend. When I posted the comment "ads in the gazette and a few radio spots telling when and where people can sell their goods would be enough" may have been silly of me to think something like that may work, I just know when I put an add in the paper for a garage sale, people show up if they want something. I also dont know what it costs, but when a place , say like osage city, has a city wide garage sale, I beleive they post it in the paper and if people want to sell stuff, they open their garage and sell, those who want to buy, show up. I dont think that costs 17k per year, but I may be wrong
lastly, you said " If we don't get the support we're asking for, we could indeed wind up with a market that _is_ nothing more than people selling bread and onions out of their pickups."

I am sorry, but thats all Ive seen. I am not saying there isnt more, I just have not experienced it, maybe I should get out more! and maybe i'm just to tight with my money so $330 a day sounded high. I probably should get more involved but I'm pretty happy just dropping by to buy a loaf of bread or some fresh veggies out of someones pickup.

Posted by Kstrebuchet (anonymous) on May 10, 2008 at 9:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

it has been mentioned "If you read the 8-page tab that came out last week, you know there's "a lot more happening" at the market than just people selling bread and onions"

Well I thought I would stop by and see what I could find, Found about 15 people selling veggies and plants out of the back of trucks. Again, I must have missed all the "special events" Must have been the cold and damp weather. I'll keep trying!

Posted by traceygraham (anonymous) on May 14, 2008 at 2:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Treb- please feel free to stop by the Kress building lobby and pick up a copy of the 8-page tab. You'll see there are 24 special events planned over the 6 month market season. That's an average of four events per month, but it doesn't mean there will be an event every single market.

Posted by Kstrebuchet (anonymous) on May 14, 2008 at 6:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks TG, I figure I'll hit one sooner or later, I like the market goods, so I'll keep going for the goddies and if I hit an event, it will be a bonus!