Students praise Challenge Day
By Bobbi Mlynar (Contact)
Originally published 01:52 p.m., April 24, 2008
Updated 01:53 p.m., April 24, 2008
Challenge Day leaders borrowed a phrase from Mohandas Gandhi to help about 300 Emporia students learn how to discourage bullying and how to cope with it when bullying happens.
A group of teachers and supporters from the community brought the Challenge Day activities to Emporia High School on Monday and Tuesday and to Emporia Middle School on Wednesday. Each session brought in about 100 students who had been chosen to take part in the all-day lock-in, where they spent the time doing activities and talking about a range of issues, including violence, teasing, racism, harassment, peer pressure and drugs.
“Students are given several opportunities to speak out about what’s really going on with them, and what they need from one another,” Nancy Horst, community relations director for the school district, said in a news release. “… Faculty members and community members who have organized this event hope it will reduce the bullying, teasing, and other forms of oppression that occur among our youth.”
Challenge Day was brought to the district through donations from the Emporia Community Foundation, Kiwanis Club of Emporia, Rotary Club, Sertoma Club, Russ Lawson Painting, EMS PTO, Emporia High School, the Hopkins Foundation, the E.M. Babinger Foundation, the Loretto Langley Trust, and the Reeble Foundation, Horst said.
The program, with its “Be the Change” motto, emphasizes Gandhi’s philosophy: “You must be the change you want to see in the world.”
After the gymnasium doors were unlocked about 2:45 p.m. Wednesday, several of the students talked about what they learned from the program and how they would apply that knowledge in their own environments.
They talked about the importance of being themselves and standing up for others who are being bullied, whether they know the victims or not.
“I learned a lot today,” said seventh-grader Marissa Hernandez. “I think there were people who were being bullied here, and I was just a bystander. I learned to stick up for people who are being bullied.”
Marissa said that she had been bullied and was relieved to find out during the session that others face the same problem.
“There’s people that are going through the same things you are and it’s awesome knowing you’re not alone,” she said.
Vanessa Baza, an eighth-grader, agreed.
“I like how much you find out that other kids feel the same way you do,” she said. “You shouldn’t hurt people without realizing what they have going on at home. … If you see someone bullying another person, stand up for that person. I will be able to do that.”
Vanessa said that the program had been “a really emotional day, just letting us express our feelings made me realize I shouldn’t keep things inside me that much.”
Eighth-grader Kelsey Cheever said she had learned she didn’t need to hide her feelings.
“You’re eventually going to have to let it out in anger,” she said.
“I’ve been bullied on, but I somewhat bully on some people, but I won’t do it any more. … Hopefully, they won’t do it any more.”
Kelsey said that Challenge Day activities had brought an unexpected response from one of the people who had bullied her.
“One of them gave me a hug,” she said. “That kind of surprised me.”
Another eighth-grader, Ashley Hulett, said that students bullied her because of a physical problem.
“They would make fun of me because I am deaf in my left ear,” Ashley said. “Sometimes, they come up and say something in my left ear, and I couldn’t hear and they’d start laughing.”
Some of the girls who had done that apologized to her on Wednesday.
The students said that bullying was a problem at EMS, and that most of it is verba — whispering, talking about others and teasing. They said they will be able to use the skills learned at Challenge Day to cope with the bullying and also to set an example for others who did not go through the program.
Alli Armitage, a junior at EHS, participated in the program when it was brought to Emporia last year by the former Flint Hills Girl Scout Council. She and her sister Aubrey, a sophomore who also had completed the program, assisted the adult facilitators in the Challenge Day sessions.
Alli said that the program gives “expectations you should have had all your life — treating others how you like to be treated.”
Challenge Day, she said, provides a toolbox to help students re-start their lives. They learn to “be strong, be there, and to listen especially and to have an open heart and an open mind all the time.”
“People and life kind of get you down sometimes,” Alli said. “Don’t get sucked back into it.”
The students who have gone through Challenge Day will need to pass on what they have learned and to act as role models.
“You’ve just got to lead by example a lot, and hopefully people will follow,” Alli said. “… You have to step out of your comfort zone and stand up for what’s right.”
She believes that a lot more bullying is taking place in schools than adults realize. Although there sometimes is shoving in the school hallways, most of the bullying comes verbally.
“It’s so easy to talk behind someone’s back. Friends do it to friends,” Alli said.
Challenge Day tries to change that and to replace negative attitudes and behaviors with positives ones.
“Everybody can change and nobody’s a bad kid,” Alli said. “Everybody deserves to be treated as an equal, to be loved, and have respect.”
Aubrey said that change comes through “showing everybody the respect you want to be given. … Know you are who you are and that you don’t need to be anybody else. The best thing to be is to be yourself.”
A Be the Change Club is being organized now at the high school for the coming school year, Alli said.
Comments
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Posted by jc1968 (anonymous) on April 24, 2008 at 6:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
What a wonderful program. My daughter paticipated in this and she was so excited about it when she got home. She wished it would have happened earlier in the year because she made some new friends and renewed some old ones. Great job to the sponsers and the school district on this one. Keep up the good work.
Posted by lyon (anonymous) on April 25, 2008 at 7:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
What a great thing to get the kids involved. My concern is the bullying going on between 7th grade girls and 6th grade girls and it will continue when these girls are in 7th/8th grade. I think text and computer bullying is a big thing now and maybe that should be looked into. It seems to be mostly happening with the girls and some girls can be down right cruel! I hope this can continue to be a program used throughout the school system.
Posted by Kstrebuchet (anonymous) on April 26, 2008 at 6:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
MisterO
"I can't even begin to say how AGAINST this nonsense I am!"
elplayero
"There is still time to stop this travesty."
citizen
"I have told my son that he will not be going near the school on those two days."
Emporia_Spartan
"What are you people thinking???? There is something very fishy here"
greenday
"If I had kids this age the ywould NOT be attending. Hell NO..."
TheWatcher
"Why do you want to brainwash our children? Haven't you read the criticism of this cult program?"
The above are all comments made about "challenge day" on previous articles
Just wondering where you people are now, what are your comments on this topic now that the Students voices are being heard? You all seemed to be so against this when it was presented but from what I have read it seemed to be a good thing for the kids. How come you all have not made any comments Now?
Posted by Pollyanna (anonymous) on April 26, 2008 at 8:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Kstrebuchet--
I think I love you!!! hahahaa
As a participant and adult helper all three days I can say that I thought it went super. So many kids had their eyes opened to the hurts they've inflicted over the years to each other (some unintentional some very intentional). Be proud of your students in Emporia..they worked very hard, played hard, and I hope let the program touch their hearts!
Posted by MisterO (anonymous) on April 26, 2008 at 9:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm still here, and I still say this is nothing more than a cultish brainwashing session.
It should NOT have happened in school during school hours.
I also don't like it when people tell outright LIES in order to promote their agenda. From previous comments:
Posted by Pollyanna "...guess what there were NO locks on doors!"
Posted by Ilovekids "...I can tell you there was NO LOCK IN."
From the article above:
"Each session brought in about 100 students who had been chosen to take part in the all-day lock-in...."
"the gymnasium doors were unlocked about 2:45 p.m...."
Children at this age are undergoing many physical, emotional, and mental changes. Many are quite vulnerable at this stage and should NOT be locked in a room with a bunch of strangers and compelled relive what may have been traumatic events for them. Group therapy should only be performed by qualified mental health professionals, in an appropriate environment (not in a school setting), and not behind locked doors.
Let me ask you something now...I asked a question not long ago that nobody was able to answer. If this is such a good and safe program, WHY are parents required to sign such a broad waiver absolving the "challenge day" presenters from any injury or accident resulting from or in any way (directly or indirectly) or in any way connected with the event?
From the permission slip:
"I further understand that Challenge Day and the sponsoring school/organization, its officers, employees or agents assume no liability either directly or indirectly for injury or accident resulting from or in any way connected with this event."
Posted by Kstrebuchet (anonymous) on April 26, 2008 at 6:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
MisterO, to answer your question, the same reason you sign a waiver/permission slip to do many things, accidents happen, I mean what if a kid was leaning back in their chair and it fell over backwards, hurting the youngsters head or back, Some people (like you I imagine) would use that as a chance to Sue. Duh!
It is also strange why YOU waited to post on this article until someone called you out.
You may have had a bit of bullying done to you when you were younger, maybe you could have benefited from something like this. JMO
Posted by Pollyanna (anonymous) on April 26, 2008 at 6:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I wonder why teachers/ administration and lost kids meandered into the gym from time to time during the sessions then? Surely if the doors were locked NOBODY would gain entrance. Why was I able to go out to my car and get my lunch and come back to an unlocked door? "All day lock in" refers to the fact that the students were a part of the program all day and didn't leave for classes. Once the students were there, they stayed. No locked doors. Sounds like Mister O needs a big fat Challenge Day HUG... oh wait..he hasn't had his permission slip signed yet. I measure the success of this program from hearing from parents who, for once, heard about their kids telling them this was one of the best days of their lives. The students say it all.
Posted by MisterO (anonymous) on April 26, 2008 at 7:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
LOL. Called out, huh? That's too funny. Pollyanna, please read the above article: it says "lock-in" and that the doors were "unlocked about 2:45 p.m". Who's lying, you or Bobbi?
Let me give my perspective on this, not to try and persuade anyone, but just to give you and idea of where I'm coming from and why I feel the way I do.
First, I'll say yes...maybe I am a little paranoid. And that I am extremely grateful that my fears were not realized.
My fear is that these days, some emotionally disturbed students - usually victims of bullies - try to solve their problems by bringing guns to school and using other students and teachers as target practice.
Remember last year a student tried to bring a gun to school here in Emporia? I remember. Suppose, just suppose for one instant that a student like that had been picked to participate in this "very emotional" event. Suppose the student had been so upset that he/she came to school the next day and "fixed" their problem with a little target practice? Did ANY of the challenge day advocates in Emporia give any thought at all to that possibility?
Again, thank God that hasn't happened.
Another scenario.
Suppose a couple bullies were in the program when some of the other students cried out their pain and those bullies used that over the coming weeks. "Awww, did 'ems see little Johnny crying? Boo-hoo hoo..." No supposed a couple other bullies in the school picked up on that and every time they saw little Johnny in the hall teased him for it. What if that would be enough to push little Johnny over the edge?
Let's hope it never happens, but did anyone give any thought to that?
I can guarantee the challenge day presenters did. Read the disclaimer more closely. You know, where it says resulting from or in any way connected with the event?
That "in any way connected with the event" absolves them for any FUTURE incidents related to this.
Paranoid? Yes indeed. Things like Columbine and Virginia Tech tend to make me that way. But tell me, if one child IS pushed over the edge by this "very emotional" program and goes on a rampage, would any of the programs supporters still think it was worth it?
These challenge day people - they'll put on a good sales pitch and assure you their only concern is for the poor little children. Just my opinion, but I don't think they care about our kids. They are a profit-driven company, and from the articles, they make one heck of a profit.
That is why I sessions like this need to be conducted by licensed mental health professionals in the proper setting. Not in a school, in a locked room (as specifically said in the above article) with a bunch of profit-motivated strangers.
So go ahead and let your JMO run wild with speculation about my past and hand out all the big fat challenge day hugs you want.
I can just about guarantee I care more about the welfare of our kids than some cult-like motivational speakers.
Posted by MisterO (anonymous) on April 26, 2008 at 7:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
By the way, Kstrebuchet and Pollyanna...do you think your cute little comments might be the exact type of behavior the challenge day program is supposed to prevent? Sounds to me like you were poking fun at me and others who were against the program.
Maybe the two of you could have benefitted from the program.
JMO
Posted by Kstrebuchet (anonymous) on April 26, 2008 at 9:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
MisterO, my apoligizes if I hurt your feelings :(
So you are saying that a program like this could benefit some (Kstrebuchet and Pollyanna) but in no way benefit others (Students)? That does not seem to hold much water.
I also suppose it is good to be a bit Paranoid but dont let it blind you of the fact that some people are out there to try to help children and if they make some money doing so, good for them! Maybe some of the fee goes to their travel, supplies and the like so they can make it to the next school to try and help more children, not to mention, they may use some of the profits to feed their own family.
Since you like scenarios, what would happen if a parent of one of the students, lets call him... Mister P. What if that parent went to the school during challange day and shot up the school because they didnt like the program. OMG!
My point.
Anything is possible there Mister O..
I think I would rather have people "trying" to help than be the guy who sits back and whines about how the help ain't good enough!
Posted by Kstrebuchet (anonymous) on April 26, 2008 at 9:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh, and yes, called out. I believe my question was
"Just wondering where you people are now, what are your comments on this topic now" Only then did you post a response to the article.
To also clear something else up for you
Polly Was There and she tried to inform you of a fact, which was "All day lock in" refers to the fact that the students were a part of the program all day and didn't leave for classes" NOT that the doors were locked all day.
Posted by MisterO (anonymous) on April 27, 2008 at 7:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Ok, well let's just say we disagree on this then, shall we? You asked a question I answered and gave some thoughts as to why I feel the way I feel. I don't really need you to agree or to validate my thoughts.
You think it's a good program, I don't.
The locked doors issue? The article said the doors were unlocked about 2:45 p.m. If they weren't locked, then why did they need to be unlocked? If that was a poor choice of words by the Gazette, then I apologize for the misunderstanding.
As far as hurting my feelings...please. Don't flatter yourself. If you're looking for a flame war, you will need to look to someone else.
Posted by Pollyanna (anonymous) on April 27, 2008 at 10:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm really not sure why the Gazette would choose to say the doors were locked. I was confused and upset when I read it because I knew it would start another storm of confusion. One activity from Challenge Day is "If you really knew me"...and then finish the sentence. This is done in small groups in order for kids to get to know each other on a deeper level, to understand that we are not just the "masks" we wear every day... ie, the jock, the nerd, the bully, the brain, the popular girl. Some people talk about how great their family is and how proud they are, some talk about the fact they are tired of the bullying or negative things going on at their school, some will share about their struggles. Students are also told they can choose to not share at all. In all of my groups nobody ever "passed". Kids want to talk about their lives..uninterupted, no judgements. The end of the day is for students to issue "Challenges" to each other..ways to make their school better. That time, in every session also consisted of righting wrongs. Making ammends to friends or people they've hurt. If you could see the line of kids waiting to have their time on the mic to make a public apology, your heart would swell with pride. Nobody told these students to do that..they chose it. If I were being real on these posts I would say that if you really knew ME, you would know I, along with so many others had a rough go of it at school and spent much time confused, lonely, and hurt even though I had friends around. This is not my personal sob fest, rather a chance to get real. I wished something like this program were around when I was in school. I would have understood I was not alone, I would have understood to stand up for others I saw every day being hurt, and I would have understood about healthy ways to empty my "balloon".. (A reference made in the program that refers to all the hurt, anger, frustration we all feel and just blow it in an invisible balloon we carry with us.) These are all strategies and tools given at the program that recognizes we need to give our younger generation the skills to handle the things they are forced to handle in these sometimes tumultous times. There, that's it. If you knew me, you'd know my interest is to hope my kids and students in Emporia can manage their lives in a healthy way. If this program is an impetus for that..perfect. Many others don't agree and feel very strongly about that and that's ok too. Mister O, my apoligies to you if my posts seem snotty and caddy. Old defense mechanism wrapped in humor and sarcasm. I'm great at it. I can respect differing opinions. I just wish you could attend a session. My guess would be you may have a change of heart. Maybe not. Really the challenge is now up to students to make their schools the school of their dreams. I'll be there to help them any way I can. Thx.
Posted by lyon (anonymous) on April 27, 2008 at 2:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I can't believe the outragous commits were made about this activity for the kids. Brainwashing, be for real!! This is helping our kids. What's the big issue about the lock doors, anyways? I would want my child to participate and she will come out a better person because of it.
Posted by Kstrebuchet (anonymous) on April 27, 2008 at 6:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Pollyanna
MisterO cant change his mind now, it would mean he was mistaken about something and there is no way he could admit that. it was a good program and many have said it was, many of those who attended, mister O did not attend so he does not have much to base a objective opinion on.
Posted by MisterO (anonymous) on April 27, 2008 at 9:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Taunting and teasing won't be enough to draw me into a flame war and really doesn't show you in a good light.
Posted by Kstrebuchet (anonymous) on April 27, 2008 at 9:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Mister O, lol,
Not sure what a flame war is, Anyway, it's been nice razzing you, you handle it well. and no harm intended .
have a good week
Posted by 4th_generation_Emporian (anonymous) on April 27, 2008 at 10:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I just want to say that I have never been more proud of my mother who put her heart and soul into getting this program to the Emporia district. My mom has been a teacher in the Emporia school district for years. She sees first hand everyday how bullying affects kids in their everyday lives. I only wish this program was brought to the Emporia area when I was in school. I watched the videos of how Challenge Day works and I went to the presentation at the high school when they were introducing the program to our community. Seeing teenagers open up and express their feelings about either bullying someone else or being bullied, to other peers was so moving. I work in the mental health field and all I can say is that I hope this program comes to the school district that I work in. I too see how bullying affects children as young as 5 years old everyday. I just want to say THANK YOU to my mom and all the volunteers that helped get this program to the Emporia district. Having role-models like them is a gift to the Emporia community. Anyone who volunteers their time to make a change in a child's life is a hero to me! Thanks also to the sponsors who funded this program!!
Posted by citizen (anonymous) on April 28, 2008 at 10:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)
My comment is this: My son did not go to challenge day. He was not asked to because he does not have a problem with any students or they to him. But he did let me know that a few students who have caused problems for other students throughout the year also did not go. AND a student who was picked on throughout the years was not asked to go to. So who benefited? Although some kids thought it was great should we take unnessary risks with our kids? I won't. It is my job to keep my son safe and I take my job seriously.
Posted by Kstrebuchet (anonymous) on April 28, 2008 at 11:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
citizen, So who benefited?
sounds to me those who went benefited.
Your comment "Although some kids thought it was great should we take unnessary risks with our kids?"
What unnessary risk was taken? I dont understand.
My whole point about this program is, there are people out there who try to help children, weather it be this program or another, I think that is a good thing, I also wont put down or cry about those who Try to help, at least they are doing Something. What are those who complain about this program doing to prevent bullies in school?
i'm also sure there is room for improvment but where isn't there? Again at least there are those who try to make a difference.
Posted by citizen (anonymous) on April 28, 2008 at 12:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Have you walked the halls of EMS? Since the beginning of the school year there have been posters everywhere about anit-bullying. Also, they had an ENTIRE semester of teaching the students about the cause and effect of bullying and about self-esteem. I saw the homework. EMS and it's teachers are doing a great job AND it is for everyone. I wish the money raised for Challenge should have gone to all the teachers for instructing their students about anti-bullying. I believe it was a waste of money when the teachers do an outstanding EVERYDAY not just once a year.
Posted by Kstrebuchet (anonymous) on April 28, 2008 at 7:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
A big THANK YOU to the teachers of EMS for doing their jobs plus for all the extra time and money, they spend on their own, for the benefit of the students. I have nothing bad to say about teachers in Lyon County. They work hard and do a fine job.
This still does not change the fact that the people involved in Challange Day are trying to do good things for children Also! My comment "What are those who complain about this program doing to prevent bullies in school?" Had Nothing to do with teachers or what THEY do, it was more towards those who are against this program. What are They doing? besides complaining about the help others are providing. I do not think it was a waste of money, it has obviously made a difference in some kids life, hence the article, and if it makes a difference, it is worth it.
once again "What unnessary risk was taken? I dont understand"
Posted by MisterO (anonymous) on April 29, 2008 at 6:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)
In previous discussions on this topic, it was pointed out that school districts in several states have banned the program because they felt it was potentially harmful to the participants.
Possibly because nobody really knows what the long-term effects of subjecting adolescents to such intense emotional experiences might be.
I mentioned in a previous post that children at this age are already under a great deal of stress from the emotional and psychological changes they are experiencing. Is it really wise to subject them to the additional stress of reliving what may have been traumatic experiences in front of a group of strangers? In my opinion, no. It is not.
The challenge day program book itself cautions the facilitators to keep a close eye on the participants in case it becomes too intense for them, and to be sure counselors are on hand after the program in case students need "additional support".
I've got a question about the program for anyone who cares to answer. Supposedly this program was presented in an effort to prevent or reduce "bullying" in the school. Since the program has been around for quite a while, are there any studies or statistics that show the program is effective in doing that (reducing bullying)?
Questioning a controversial program isn't whining. Expressing a concern about the potential long-term emotional or psychological impacts of a program isn't complaining.
Posted by Kstrebuchet (anonymous) on April 29, 2008 at 10:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I've got a question for MISTER O about the program. This program was presented in an effort to prevent or reduce "bullying" in the school. Since the program has been around for quite a while, are there any studies or statistics that show the program is NOT effective in doing that (reducing bullying)?
My other question is, What are those who "express the concerns" about the program doing to help the youth in schools? What steps would you take to prevent bullies? I see the people of challenge have ideas and are acting on them. if there are better ideas, lets hear them?
it's easy to point the finger at someone, just remember when you do , there are four fingers pointing back at yourself.
Posted by MisterO (anonymous) on April 29, 2008 at 3:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Are you sure it was presented to prevent or reduce bullying? From the challenge day website, the purpose of the program isn't to prevent bullying. "Challenge Day is a 501(c)3 non-profit whose mission is to provide youth and their communities with experiential workshops and programs that demonstrate the possibility of love and connection through the celebration of diversity, truth, and full expression."
Have you ever heard the term "love-bombing"? Interesting term. Here's some excerpts from one of many articles on the topic:
Regarding people who are in stressful situations:
"...Such circumstances include students starting college, people starting a new job, a family moving to a new area, or a person in trouble. When someone is kind, welcomes us, and offers help, we tend to feel it is ungrateful and cynical to question their motives.
A cult will take full advantage of this -- they recruit heavily on college campuses, especially at the beginning of the school year, at unemployment offices, on the job, and among new neighbors..."
"...The prospective convert learns quickly that being open to the information given by the group is rewarded with praise and affection..."
"...Asking questions and especially bringing up outside negative information, however, will result in angry denunciations of the sources of that information, rather than any attempt to address the questions it raises. If the prospect persists, the praise and affection will be withdrawn and he/she will be criticized for being unspiritual, ungrateful, and blind to the group's "Truth"..."
(wow! Denouncing anyone who dares question the program instead of answering the questions...Does that sound familiar, or what? Kind of like what's happening in this thread, huh?)
"...This pattern of attacking the sources of negative information, rather than addressing the issues it raises, does warn some prospective converts that something isn't right. Many people who are subjected to recruitments by psychologically abusive groups, though, are under stress or facing a major life change, and are therefore especially susceptible to love bombing...."
From your response, I take it you intend to deflect my question about showing evidence the program is effective rather than answering it, huh?
Posted by Kstrebuchet (anonymous) on April 29, 2008 at 7:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Mister O , I could say the same to you, " I take it you intend to deflect my question about showing evidence the program is NOT effective rather than answering it,? AND the first question I ask Before you ask was . (What are those who complain about this program doing to prevent bullies in school?)
I have done quite a bit of searching on the internet to find Negitives about the program, I found one, I did however find Many web sites about the Positives of the program.
http://www2.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/200...
http://cflcoc.org/testimonials.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aKmMGsRv...
http://ci.northville.mi.us/ReferenceDesk...
Heres one with some case studies
http://www.alachuacircle.org/HowEffectiv...
The Challenge Day program was originally created in 1987, and since that time hundreds of thousands of young people have seen the power of commitment and compassion transform their schools and their communities. As the program grew, the Challenge Day organization was formed in January of 2001. It operates as a 501(c)(3) non-profit tax exempt organization. Since its inception, the Challenge Day program has received numerous awards from the Juvenile Justice System, the D.A.R.E. Officers Association, numerous government officials, and many school districts and cities nationwide. The Challenge Day program has been featured in the New York Times best seller, Chicken Soup for the Teenage Soul.
Certificate of Achievement: U.S. Congressman George Miller, 7th District of California
Certificate of Appreciation: Mount Diablo Unified School District and Drug Free Task Force, Concord, CA
Letter of Appreciation: West Boylston Peer Counselors, West Boylston Middle/High School, May 16, 2001
Letter of Appreciation: Susan Cross, Anthony Wayne Local Schools, Lucas County, OH, March 31, 2001
Letter of Appreciation: Assemblyman Tom Torkalson, California State Legislature, December 18, 2000
Outstanding Youth Program Award: Juvenile Justice Delinquency Prevention Commissions of Contra Cost County, Contra Costa County, CA, October 12, 1989
Speaker's Award: D.A.R.E Officers' Association, Concord, CA, March 1992
Emmy Award: "Teen Files: Surviving High School," featuring Challenge Day, Academy of Television Arts and Sciences, 2000
Sure sounds to me as if this is a worthless program. You seem to be so set on saying this is a bad program yet you give No facts to base the opinion on, just your feelings.
Lastly what does "love bombing" have to do with this program? what web site were you referring to?
Posted by MisterO (anonymous) on April 29, 2008 at 7:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm asking questions and looking for answers. If you don't have them, it's ok to say so.
Posted by Kstrebuchet (anonymous) on April 29, 2008 at 9:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
LOL,. you wanted answers to your questions, you got some, I cant help you didnt like what you read.
Your question "I've got a question about the program for anyone who cares to answer. Supposedly this program was presented in an effort to prevent or reduce "bullying" in the school. Since the program has been around for quite a while, are there any studies or statistics that show the program is effective in doing that (reducing bullying)?"
An answer :
See Above post
If the program is not working, why do you suppose, they been around several years. why there is so much praise on the web, why would it have recieved so many awards, why are students saying it helps?
I dont know what else you want but I am sure no matter what answer you get, you wont like it.
and if you dont have any answers to my questions, just say so,
My question, What are those who "express the concerns" about the program doing to help the youth in schools? What steps would you take to prevent bullies? I see the people of challenge have ideas and are acting on them. if there are better ideas, lets hear them?
You can respond if you want, although it matters not. Have a good day mister o,
Posted by Pollyanna (anonymous) on April 29, 2008 at 9:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Kstre-
Thanks for the research. Those sites and testimonials support how I felt about it and what I saw happening to Emporia's youth as they went through their day. Appreciate it!
Posted by Kstrebuchet (anonymous) on May 1, 2008 at 6:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Mister O's fire must have been extinguished in the "flame war"
, It looks as though he wants all the answers because he has none of his own.
Posted by MisterO (anonymous) on May 1, 2008 at 6:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You know, my main concern with the program was that I don’t think it belongs in a school setting. I still believe that. I don’t get my jollies by breaking kids down and watching them cry in front of a bunch of strangers. In my personal opinion, that is not a good thing. At least not in a school setting. Frankly, I think it somewhat cruel and abusive. You might disagree and that’s fine.
I hadn’t planned on discussing the article because the program took place, and there wasn’t anything I could change about that so I really had nothing to say about the article.
Well, you “called me out” and I tried to explain why I was against the program in school. Instead of discussing the issue, you insulted and baited. I don’t mind discussing the issue, but I’m really not interested in trading insults or playing word games.
Someone else mentioned they felt the program was potentially dangerous (I agree) and I gave my thoughts on why they might think that. These are kids we are putting through this - kids who’s minds, emotions, and psyches are still developing. You might personally believe the program is perfectly safe, but that doesn’t mean someone else’s concerns are not valid.
Again, instead of addressing the concerns or providing answers to the questions, you avoid them. Throw the questions back in the faces of those who ask. “What if it’s not dangerous” is not a very good answer to the “What if it’s dangerous” question because it does nothing to address the issue. At least not in my opinion.
I ask for any evidence that the program is effective in reducing bullying.
You provide links to testimonials from some of the program participants who got the warm fuzzy feelings from the program. You’re right about me in one aspect: I don’t accept those testimonials as supporting that the program is effective in combating bullying. They show that some of the participants were
moved by the emotional experience. Nothing more. One of the links you provided at least showed SOME statistics from four schools that showed a decrease in some activities after the program. At least that is something, and is more than anyone else has been able to provide in previous discussions.
I’m not asking questions in order to be an ass. I’m asking questions because I am trying to learn. I have questions about the appropriateness of the program in a school setting and about the safety and effectiveness of the program - Believe it or not, because I care.
Posted by Kstrebuchet (anonymous) on May 1, 2008 at 8:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I believe you care but you still have given no answers to other people questions either, even after being ask several times. I on the otherhand gave you links, case studies and testimonials supporting the program, you give Nothing, only how you feel "Personally" this is not a good program. Nothing else to back up those concerns. if you FEEL so strongly that this program is not good for kids, Please enlighten me as to what you base that on, other than your feelings.
It only seems you want Proof that this program is good but you are unwilling to provide any proof that it isn't.
What happened to innocent until proven guilty?
You keep going on and on about "breaking kids down and watching them cry in front of a bunch of strangers"
Yet when I dig deeper into challenge day I only see and hear, From Kids, that this program worked for them and it has made a difference in their lives in a good way, Not once have I heard or seen anywhere that a child has said this ruined their life and made life worse. If you have, Show me.
finally, you state, you have questions about the appropriateness of the program and about the safety and effectiveness of the program. Where have you looked for those answers?? papers, books,internet,people who have been there? where?
It is easy to be for or against something with nothing to back it up , it's harder to be for or against something when you at least have done a little homework and research.
Posted by Deepthoughts (anonymous) on May 2, 2008 at 8:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Some of these discussions get so old, especially when a topic has already been discussed with links, proof, etc. and then a new story comes out and starts everything all over again. I'm sure I will get a tongue lashing for saying I don't have the time or energy to go back and find the old story and cite all the sources, but I simply don't want to.
Kstre - I have to agree with MisterO - I didn't like the way you were baiting and when he/she chose to let the subject die or was too busy to respond, you automatically claim victory? You seem to have a very strong opinion about the topic as do others and I have a feeling that we could all find research that goes both ways - some kids like it, some didn't, etc. I agree with MisterO that I would like to see concrete stats that show that bullying is down? Then again - will you ever get a true reading of this - I mean what if kids got bullied and didn't report it or what if it happened and teachers/administrators didn't log it because they wouldn't want to skew the numbers. Who knows? I guess that's my cynical side coming out that anyone can crunch numbers and make the stats appear the way that best fits their argument - sad, but true.
My personal opinion. I didn't think this program was appropriate. Do we seriously think a class on bullying with only a small population of the school is going to put a stop to bullying? It's been around since the beginning of time and it will continue to happen. I highly doubt a program like this would have changed some of the school tragedies we have seen in recent years. Parents already coddle their kids too much these days as we've read about the bad habits of Generation Y, so I can't imagine what Generation O (you know that stands for Obese, right? now that's sad!) is going to turn out like. Perhaps if we got back to basics and taught personal responsibility instead of how to play the blame game, the kids might stand a chance. Just my opinion - blast away!
Posted by Kstrebuchet (anonymous) on May 2, 2008 at 9:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Deepthoughts, I'm not going to blast you, I just keep hearing things like "I would like to see concrete stats that show that bullying is down?" How is that so different than me saying, I would like to see concrete stats that bullying is Not Down??
Again, seems people want to point fingers and say what a bad thing it is but offer nothing to show that other than thier personal Feelings, yet I am EXPECTED to back up my opinion with facts and offer proof, ???
I will agree that bullying has been something thats happened in the past and will continue, with or without this program. My biggest point was and is, Some people are at least trying to make a difference in young peoples lives, I think thats a good thing, while others just sit back and "have concerns"
We have kids on drugs, parents on drugs, abuse in schools and homes, bullying, name calling, missing and absent parents, etc,etc.
Here is a group that trys to give a voice to the kids and people want to run it in the ground, I dont get that. Is the program perfect? No it's not. Does this mean that if someone trys to make a difference in a childs life and fails, they should just give up? NO it doesnt, they should keep trying until the get it right.
You say " I highly doubt a program like this would have changed some of the school tragedies we have seen in recent years"
I might agree with that,but at the same time no one offers anything to say it wont.
Posted by Kstrebuchet (anonymous) on May 2, 2008 at 10:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
As far a baiting, deep thoughts, please explain your comments
" you automatically claim victory?"
"I would like to see concrete stats that show that bullying is down?"
"Who knows?"
"Do we seriously think a class on bullying with only a small population of the school is going to put a stop to bullying?"
Seems when I ask questions, it's baiting but when anyone else does it, it's not baiting.
You also start one paragraph by addressing me personally, is that not baiting?
Posted by Deepthoughts (anonymous) on May 2, 2008 at 2:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Krstre -
This is going to be a long response because you've requested I answer a lot of questions, so here goes. I addressed you personally in my one paragraph because the comment was intended for you since it had to do with your comment. As you know, through typing and not face-to-face communication comments can be misconstrued or if I don't specifically say who I am talking to, someone else might jump in and assume I was discussing their comment. I guess I don't consider that baiting, but rather letting you know I was addressing your comment.
The whole baiting thing was about this comment that you made:
"Mister O's fire must have been extinguished in the "flame war"
, It looks as though he wants all the answers because he has none of his own."
I interpreted your "flame war" comment as basically saying MisterO didn't respond, so therefore he can't defend his side, so I win. I apologize if I interpreted incorrectly. By the way I should probably state that I do not know MisterO and/or am not related - just saying since that will be the next thing I'm accused of.
You want me to explain my comment "I would like to see concrete stats that show that bullying is down" - what is to explain? Don't you do research on expensive things before you buy them to make sure they will give you the results you want? That's all I'm asking for - it makes sense to me that I would want to see hard facts of school districts that could show stats of bullying instances before the program and then a lesser amount after the program. That would prove to me the program is having the desired results and then I would be able to make a better decision about whether I wanted to spend that much money on it or not.
My "who knows" comment was expressing my cynicism for if we would even be able to prove one way or another that bullying is up or down due to who was recording the numbers, etc.
My last comment is pretty self-explanatory as far as how I feel about a bullying class. Since bullying has been around since the beginning of time, I don't think one class with a few people will fix the problem. I think I answered all your questions.
Posted by Kstrebuchet (anonymous) on May 2, 2008 at 7:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Deepthoughts , my comment "Mister O's fire must have been extinguished in the "flame war"
, It looks as though he wants all the answers because he has none of his own" was more talking towards Pollyanna, not Mister O, so I dont see that as baiting, maybe I should do as you do and say Pollyannna first before I state my comment.
And yes I do research, My research has shown the program in a good light, I have not seen or been given Research showing different or putting the program in a negative light. my questions asking for information to show the program doesnt work is, in my mind, is no different than asking to see stats that it does work, it goes both ways.
I also agree with you that one class will not stop bullying, but Again, one class is better than No Class in trying to make a difference.
If people see my comments as "baiting" then they should know that they are under no obligation to answer, they Choose to do so. I THINK mister O is a grown adult, he/she can respond if they choose, I probably have been "baited" before, So What, either you take the bait or you dont.
Have a good day
Posted by MisterO (anonymous) on May 3, 2008 at 9:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Baiting isn't necessarily a comment directed to a specific person. Baiting is posting deliberately snide comments in order to insult or provoke an argument.
Your very first post in this discussion:
"where you people are now" "what are your comments on this topic now" "How come you all have not made any comments Now"
was tantamount to a five year old child shouting "Hah! How you like me now". Condescending and rude.
Even after I tried to explain my thoughts, you continued to "bait" by posting your little gems of wisdom:
"Some people (like you I imagine) would use that as a chance to Sue. Duh!"
"You may have had a bit of bullying done to you when you were younger"
"maybe you could have benefited from something like this"
"my apoligizes if I hurt your feelings"
"MisterO cant change his mind now, it would mean he was mistaken about something and there is no way he could admit that."
I don't believe you had any intention of actually discussing the article or program. Your comment, "it's been nice razzing you" seems to support that belief.
Razzing and baiting are the same thing. Neither do anything to promote the discussion of the topic.
You are right, I can respond or not. I chose not to, and that was apparently not good enough, since you continued to bait:
"Mister O's fire must have been extinguished in the "flame war", It looks as though he wants all the answers because he has none of his own."
You claim the comment was directed to Pollyanna, but again, you comment seems to serve no other purpose than to insult. Despite our disagreement on the subject, it seems to me that Pollyanna really isn't interested in trying to insult or provoke a fight.
(by the way, although I generally don't cite Wikipedia as a primary source, but their description of a flame war is pretty good: "Flaming is the hostile and insulting interaction between Internet users. Flaming usually occurs in the social context of a discussion board, Internet Relay Chat (IRC) or even through e-mail. An Internet user typically generates a flame response to other posts or users posting on a site, and such a response is usually not constructive, does not clarify a discussion, and does not persuade others. Sometimes, flamers attempt to assert their authority, or establish a position of superiority over other users." I'm sure you already knew that, though)
Posted by Kstrebuchet (anonymous) on May 3, 2008 at 6:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Razzing and baiting are the same thing? Ok thanks for the words of wisdom. I tend to use sarcasm most of the time, thats just the way I am, I do not mean it to insult, if it has, my apoligizes. Some people take it better than others, I see you are on who cant take it.
I would also point out to you sir,you made a comment "Taunting and teasing won't be enough to draw me into a flame war" I guess this must have been incorrect.
I would also point out, using your definition of baiting, you have done the same thing EXACTLY
your comments
"I also don't like it when people tell outright LIES in order to promote their agenda. From previous comments:
Posted by Pollyanna "...guess what there were NO locks on doors!"
Posted by Ilovekids "...I can tell you there was NO LOCK IN."
AND how about
"So go ahead and let your JMO run wild with speculation about my past and hand out all the big fat challenge day hugs you want."
OR
"I'm asking questions and looking for answers. If you don't have them, it's ok to say so."
and even
" Sometimes, flamers attempt to assert their authority, or establish a position of superiority over other users." I'm sure you already knew that, though)
Seems to be baiting Or Sarcasm to me! maybe you are a "flamer" also. As I stated in a previous post
When you point the finger at someone, there is four pointing back at you.
Posted by TacoBellB (anonymous) on May 5, 2008 at 7:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Does anyone else find it ironic that it seems some people on here that are supporting this program to stop bullying of kids could be considered Internet Bullies themselves?! Funny how that works.
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