GAZETTE FILES
Emporia Surgical Hospital Administrator Joseph Conroy stands in a surgical suite in this January file photo. The hospital has closed after 5 1/2 years of operation, Conroy announced Thursday.
Emporia Surgical Hospital closed today after five years in operation.
The hospital’s board voted to close the business Wednesday night and employees were told of the decision Thursday. Administrator Joseph Conroy said that insurance issues ultimately made it too expensive to keep operating the hospital.
“Insurance was huge,” Conroy said. The hospital has tried for years to become “in-network” with the major carriers for Emporia but has always had to accept lesser reimbursements for being an “out-of-network” provider. On Jan. 1, the situation abruptly got worst.
“Our out-of-network deductible skyrocketed,” Conroy said. “Once you discounted that off the price of the surgery, the amount was zero. You had to have something to pay the bills.
“A lot of the surgical hospitals faced the same problem after Jan. 1,” he added. “It was a pretty good financial crunch for everyone. For us — we were unable to get over that hurdle.”
Tallgrass Orthopedic & Sports Medicine will continue to operate its Emporia clinic out of the surgical hospital building for the time being. The Topeka-based company announced a partnership with the surgical hospital in 2006.
Conroy said he didn’t know what would be done with the building. Most of the nurses have taken jobs elsewhere, he said, and the surgeons would continue their own practices in Emporia.
The business generated about $120,000 in county property taxes.
Terry Lambert, the chief executive officer of Newman Regional Health, said he had been told of the closing. He said Newman hospital would be able to handle the additional case load that might result.
“Business ventures do not always work out as planned,” Lambert said. “But it is important now to focus on the positive effect this can have on the community by unifying health care services.”
When the surgical hospital first opened its doors in March 2002, Emporia had been a one-hospital town for 11 years. St. Mary’s closed in 1991, leaving Newman hospital as the only game in town.
Around 2000, though, the game began to pick up a new player when some of Newman’s surgeons decided to go into business themselves.
“Surgeons felt they were losing control of their patients at the time,” surgical hospital administrator Joseph Conroy said in a January interview. “So they thought that a surgical hospital where they had some say in the care of their patients and were able to impact that care directly would be ideal. But to do that, they were going to have to start their own hospital.”
Newman officials didn’t take the news quietly. They charged that a surgical center would unnecessarily duplicate services and in a 2000 estimate, calculated that Newman could lose $5 million in charges and $1 million in revenue from the competition. At the time, Newman’s annual net revenue was about $2 million a year, which was reinvested in the hospital services.
“The administration has always been responsive to the surgeons’ needs,” Newman trustee and local physician James Geitz said in 2000. “... In my opinion, there is absolutely no need for this facility to be built.”
But built it was, and it quickly grew busy. In its first four months, Emporia Surgical Hospital handled nearly 650 surgeries. That grew to 2,000 after it had been open a year and then to nearly 8,500 by the start of this year. The case volume slowed this year when the surgical center began turning away some patients to try to cut costs. Its final tally saw more than 9,000 cases completed in 5 1/2 years.
Down to the final week, the surgical hospital’s patient surveys continued to reap glowing comments. But lots of praise did not equal lots of profits. Even before expenses went up this year, nursing staff had to be cut back to save money. Toward the end, Conroy said, the hospital’s Medicare payments weren’t even covering the supplies needed to handle those cases.
“No surgeon has ever made money off this place — ever,” Conroy said in January. “But they didn’t really do it to make money. They opened this place because they felt strongly about being an important part of the care of their patients.”
Now that the end has come, it’s not easy to close the door.
“I think everyone felt attached to this hospital,” Conroy said. “And it’s very hard to let go.”
Comments
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Posted by justthinkin (anonymous) on September 13, 2007 at 8:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
This is a pity. I'm sorry this venture didn't work out, and it is a terrible loss to the citizens of Emporia. The service at Newmans is pathetic and it is a real disappointment that there will not be a choice in service. Newman fought this from the beginning, and I feel that some of the tactics used against the Hospital were really unfair. For example, it is my understanding that the Surgical Hospital tried to associate with at least one network, and Newman MUSCLED the network into not accepting the Surgical Hospital into their group. What's the matter Newmans, afraid to compete fairly? Well, you won.... Hope you are happy, because I'm not.
Posted by kansaslady (anonymous) on September 13, 2007 at 9:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The fact of the matter is that Dr. Amend did not see things the way the CEO at Newmans did and decided to get all the surgeons to start the surgical hospital to try to hurt Newmans. The physcians then told there patients that they had to have their surgeries at the surgical hospital because Newmans was to busy to do the surgery. I know this is true because I was told this by several people that this had happened to them. And there was one surgeon who would not buy into the surgical hospital and they black balled him until he finally had to go with them, So who was using tactics against who here??
How many people realize that when a physcian who is not an employee of a hospital but uses the surgery suite to do a surgery- is not charge anything to use that surgery unit and all the high tech surgery equipment? In fact if a physcian needs a new piece of equipment the hospital will go out and buy it so that the patients can have the best care possible. SO why would these physcians go out and build a surgical hospital and buy all the same equipment if not to line their own pockets with even more of your hard earned money? They wanted more say in their patients care.....ha ha ha! AND the nurses at the surgical hospital were mostly from NEWMANS.......
Also, I can not believe that Newmans MUSCLED a network into not accepting the surgical hospital, after all Newmans is a small fish in the big network pond. Come on!
Posted by emporian (anonymous) on September 13, 2007 at 10:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Newman Regional Health is more of a clinic than a hospital.
Posted by madpoet (anonymous) on September 14, 2007 at 8:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I've had several awful experiences at Newman's hospital. I gave up on Emporia doctors when Dr. Ciotti bailed on me. I now drive to Burlington and get excellent care. Even after driving all the way there, I spend about the same amount of time as I was stuck in the doctor office in Emporia. I rarely have to wait to see a doctor and they actually CARE about the patients.I've had several procedures in Coffey County Hospital and the staff were very professional and caring. The surgical nurse and my doctor even called to check on me at home after I had a D&C! You can't get that quality of care in Emporia, unfortunately. If you can't stand Newman's, take I-35 to 75 and go to Coffey County. It's well worth the drive!
Posted by wookdog13 (anonymous) on September 14, 2007 at 8:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I must comment to Kansaslady, GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT. All the doctors on staff for ESH gave their patients the choice of hospitals! If you would go back and read other articles about ESH it did not make money, the doctors did not make money. The patient care was the best ever in Emporia. It is sad that it will close because of lost effort in working with insurance companies, bad debt write offs, and taxes (they were not given a tax break when they started like some of the other business in this town!). Also, not just doctors are involved but several business associates, vendors and the employees of ESH. Also, if you read articles about the administrator at Newman's,who in their right mind would want to go there. ESH is/was a wonderful place for same day surgical procedures because of their efficency and dedication to taking care of all their patients. I would like to believe that more people in this area would have supported the small hospital. The company's in this town should have also help to work with the insurance company's to keep it up and going. I am very sorry for the patients that loved ESH and said they would never go back to NRH. How sad that EMPORIA let this happen. Another reason to call this a drying up TOWN.
Posted by hartford (anonymous) on September 14, 2007 at 8:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Newmans has some problems yes, mainly a shortage of nurses. They don't pay enough. I know first hand that nurses there are going back to school to get out of Newmans. Nurses are going to agency to make a better living. The surgical center was a good idea at the time. I will say that when I had procedures done at Newmans, I was ALWAYS given a choice of where I wanted to go. If what kansaslady said is true, and I am not doubting her, then Newmans needs to be charging these doctors for the use of the hospitals equipment. With more money coming in, they can pay their help better!
Posted by dayjob55 (anonymous) on September 14, 2007 at 9:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
There are a few things I'd like to comment on regarding the closing of ESH. How many people out there realize how insurance dictates patient care? Do you really know what in and out of network is? Most people know what their deductible is but fewer people know what their co-insurance benefits are and how in and out of network plays into that. And do your in and out of network benefits cross over? Most doctors don't have any problems getting in-network with insurance companies but hospitals have a big problem with that. I always thought that the American economy functioned best with competition but health insurance companies don't encourage that. In order to survive out of network hospitals often write off the difference between in & out of network deductibles & co-insurance benefits. When those differences skyrocketed on January 1 big problems arose not only for ESH but for a lot of other hospitals as well. Insurance companies are driving the United States toward socialized medicine faster than any law that Congress will ever pass. No competition, no supply & demand. Big companies buying out smaller ones, etc. Step back & look at the big picture folks & do some research. You will be amazed at what you find out there. Now as for the care I believe that both hospitals gave quality care to their patients but because ESH was smaller the care was more personal. The nurses always tried to call each and every patient within a few days of their procedure to follow up with them and although I never had a procedure done at ESH I never recieved a call from NRH after having several procedures done there. Of course most of the nurses came from NRH to ESH. Where else are they going to come from. People go from one place to another looking for better working conditions, better benefits, better pay, different people to work with and ways to improve their skills all the time. This happens not only in the medical field but in many other fields also. Nurses came from NRH to ESH & the other way around frequently. Nothing wrong with that in my book. I just kept everyone on top of their game. Now that game only has one player and I truely believe is is the citizens of Emporia that are the biggest loser in the whole process. The taxes that were generated are gone, the money the employees made won't be spent because most of the nurses have left Emporia for other jobs and some of the office help has to go on unemployment benefits until they can find other jobs and the push to keep nursing skills at the top level is gone. Be careful what you wish for Mr. Lambert - you might get more than you bargained for.
Posted by wookdog13 (anonymous) on September 14, 2007 at 10:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Dayjob very well said! Emporia and surrounding communities will suffer because of this closing. I understand that several people working there lived out of town, but would do their shopping, etc. before going home in Emporia. That is now lost. They talk of wanting a better class of employment in Emporia, but now have driven even more away. (The well educated). NRH is also helped by county funds. They also have contracts with doctors to only do their surgeries at NRH. Where is patient choice on that one? Reading this article and the one about IBC makes me really wonder what is about to happen in Emporia? (Economy lost!) Like I have posted before Emporia is drying up and very fast from what I read and see. I feel great sorrow for those who go to NRH because the nursing staff is so over worked that burn out comes fast, raises kept to a minimum, hours that really suck, etc. Yes, I compare the care at ESH as superior to all! This is an eye opener for all people to check out your insurance benefits and fight for what you want in a health care plan.
Posted by wookdog13 (anonymous) on September 14, 2007 at 10:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I am sorry to comment again, but I do believe that Mr. Joe Conroy should be commended on the job he did and did to the best of his knowledge and did not take any pay for it! Thank you, Joe. One most remember that even your best is not always good enough in certain cituations. I wish the very best to all the employees involved and hope they all find a new and better adventure to take.
Posted by Joe_Strummer (anonymous) on September 14, 2007 at 11:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
No money was ever made at ESH?? That's pretty funny. Surgeons basically worked for free...for 5+ years?? Funnier yet.
Wookdog...who are the surgeons who are contracted to perform surgery only at NRH?? I know there are surgeons who were invited to join the ESH but declined. That does not make a contract.
Also...NRH receives no county funds...hasn't for a long time.
Don't get me wrong....I am not defending NRH. I do feel that competition is a good thing (I was a St.Mary's fan). I think competition does keep people on their toes as some of you have already pointed out.
I also think it IS bad for a community when it loses a business.
I just find some of this info in this article and people's willingness to believe whatever they read a little humorous.
Posted by siamesefred (anonymous) on September 14, 2007 at 11:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Is it possible the ESH building could be purchased and used for same-day surgeries by out-of-town practices. Would keep the bldg on the tax rolls. We already have an orthodontic practice that does that. They bring their office staff here one day a week and have a packed appointment calendar. Another practice uses their space on other days. And while they're here, the local staff runs errands and eats lunch in Emporia, spending Johnson Co. dollars here.
Posted by wookdog13 (anonymous) on September 14, 2007 at 11:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Joe, look at the books. NO MONEY WAS MADE. Why do you think they are closing? The new ortho surgeons are the ones who are being paid by NRH. Now, remember there is a difference in who you are calling surgeons and who are physicians. There were a number of physicians and surgeons on the ESH staff, none of them employed (for money purposes) by ESH. Most of what is in the article is very true. None of the physicians or surgeons on ESH staff received any monies, not even their profit sharing. If you know the health care industry, the surgeons were only paid by insurance companies.
Posted by Joe_Strummer (anonymous) on September 14, 2007 at 12:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sorry Wookdog. I just don't buy it. I will post this quote....“No surgeon has ever made money off this place — ever,” Conroy said in January. “But they didn’t really do it to make money. They opened this place because they felt strongly about being an important part of the care of their patients.”
I don't believe ESH was opened because surgeons wanted to be more involved w/ their patients care. I believe it was opened to further line the surgeons pockets. I don't believe that they keep a business, especially one that would be very expensive to run, open for 5+ years without ever turning a profit. Remember...Conroy says NO surgeon ever made money.
I'm well aware of how the health care industry works. I'm also aware of what people will say or do to garner sympathy from the public.
Posted by create (anonymous) on September 14, 2007 at 1:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
In the interest of keeping this building intact as a medical establishment, I e-mailed the news article to Congressman Jerry Moran. He is on the Veterans' Affairs Commission and has been very active with regard to locating medical care facilities in areas outside of Topeka so that veterans don't have to travel so far for medical care. It's worth a suggestion.
Posted by wookdog13 (anonymous) on September 14, 2007 at 1:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sorry, but you are the one that is wrong. Joe is telling the truth. If you do not believe ask the surgeons who were on staff @ ESH. Ask any of those who have worked there. Yes, surgeons, the ones on ESH staff, did care about their patients. They new that their patients were taken care in very efficient and timely matter and were special to the care takers. The convenience of being able to walk a short distance to receive care was God's send for the elderly. ESH did not do anything to get sympathy from the public. You saw where they were not given tax breaks but even toughed that out. They did not receive any donations or special funds for anything either. They also had to pay tax on anything that was purchased. Believe what you want because I know the truth and am not afraid to ask those that are involved. If you want to know the truth for sure ask one of the surgeons on the ESH staff or are you afraid to hear the truth?
Posted by Joe_Strummer (anonymous) on September 14, 2007 at 1:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Nice Wookdog. Maybe you should preface all your posts on this matter with a dislaimer such as....."I plan on being totally biased in my comments and therefore will wear blinders in regards to all other comments." You could really save people some time.
It's obvious that your devotion to ESH has caused you to refuse to look at anything other then what you are being fed by Conroy and anyone else you know who is associated with ESH.
I do believe that the Surgeons at ESH care about their patients as you have said. I DO NOT BELIEVE that is the reason they became part of ESH. They went to make some $$$$$'s. Pure and simple.
Afraid to hear the truth? Believe me...I know both sides more than you will ever know. I'm not foolish enough to believe everything spouted from NRH or ESH.
Posted by wookdog13 (anonymous) on September 14, 2007 at 1:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Then, why are you posting on here if you already know it all. Of course, they started it for money, but if you wake up enough, you would see what the insurance companies have done to people with in and out of network, out of pocket expense, etc. There were also insurance write offs and low negotations by certain companies that would not even cover the cost of the supplies used in surgical procedures. Also, the amount of medicaid a facility has to accept is not worth the paper work to get a few dollars. I still say if you want the truth go to the horses mouth as I have done, and also ask for statements. Maybe that will wake you up. I have a hard time understanding people that spout off with out finding and researching for the truth, which I have done in following the path of some of the surgeons and the hospitals.
Posted by LilJHawkFan (anonymous) on September 14, 2007 at 2:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I had a great experience going to the surgical hospital! I saw a sports surgeon there that was from Tallgrass in Topeka. Because Emporia does not have any sports surgeons, I thought that the partnership they had with Tallgrass was awesome! I am sad to see that go. Will Emporia ever get a sports surgeon? There is a need for one here, I would say.
Posted by Joe_Strummer (anonymous) on September 14, 2007 at 2:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Why am I posting here??
I don't claim to know it all.
I do know this....you are very obviously either a disgruntled ex-ESH employee, or a family member of such.
You have gone to the horses mouth?? Sure you have. I bet you walked right up to the front desk, asked for their financial statements and with a big smile on their face, they got up and at light speed got you the private information you requested.
No need to go to the horses mouth when you are on the inside, right?
Believe what you want, blame the ESH failures on whatever organization, or group of persons/companies that you choose to.
I say that it is sad that yet another company in Emporia failed.
I also say that Conroy, etc... did not walk out of ESH completely broke. Of course you know that already, as i'm sure you are quite close with the staff.
Posted by wookdog13 (anonymous) on September 14, 2007 at 2:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Please continue to go to your sports surgeon from Tallgrass. My understanding is that Tallgrass will continue to work out of the surgical hospital. We still have Dr. Glenn and Montgomery who are now afilitated with tallgrass and also work out of ESH. NRH has hired some orthopedic people but I know little about them and would not advise people to go there.
Posted by Joe_Strummer (anonymous) on September 14, 2007 at 2:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Of course you wouldn't Wookdog.
As someone associated with ESH, why would you advise people to go to NRH. You do LilJHawkfan a dis-service.
Your bitterness has now caused you to advise people to seek care from Dr's who may or may not be qualified to treat sports injuries. I like Dr.Glenn, and have seen him for years for some chronic shoulder problems. He, by his own admission is not a sports medicine Dr. As far as Dr. Montgomery....well....let's just say I feel the same way about him that Wookdog feels about NRH.
NRH has 2 new ortho surgeons. I honestly know nothing about Dr.Rattay. I have had 2 friends who have seen Dr.Yost. He sounds good. He also does a lot of work on ESU athletes. He also works with Emp. High athletes.
Posted by wookdog13 (anonymous) on September 14, 2007 at 3:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
For your info Joe, I do research and was able to come up with several answers (honest). If you were smart enough you would be able to do the very same thing. I was very much for ESH and their surgeons. As for the people that work there, it is one heck of a good group of people. No, I did not have to just walk up to the front dest and ask for financials. A lot is a matter of public record. I will promote Tallgrass because it is another small business for Emporia that draws a crowd from smaller communities. (Isn't this a good thing for Emporia?) Why is it that Terry Lambert would not work with the surgical hospital so both places would prosper? Or was he too busy in the park? Why did the doctors want to build and new facility? Why are some, but not all surgeons salaried by NRH? Sorry, but I think you fail on all accounts. Sounds to me like you need to bury your head in the sand or open your eyes to what really goes on in Emporia.
Have a nice weekend, time for a beer or two.
Posted by Joe_Strummer (anonymous) on September 14, 2007 at 3:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Einstein, I mean Wookdog. Wow....on so many levels.
Sorry dude, If you are not an ex-somebody from ESH then Oprah hates baked ham.
I really don't give a frogs fat rear end about Lambert. I don't know the reasons why he didn't work with the surgical hospital. You should. Give Conroy a call...i'm sure you have him on speed-dial.
Once more....the doctors, i'm 100% sure of this, jumped on board the ESH to line their pockets. Once again I am not defending NRH, but being a small town, and them being a large employer, I know quite a few people who work there. Including surgical staff. Apparently there was even one Surgeon who actually bragged about the $$$$'s he was going to make. Of course that's second hand, so you can take that for what it's worth. I trust this persons word far more than I would yours.
There are a lot of good people at both places. Yes, I know people at ESH as well. I wasn't slamming the facility just like I wasn't pimping NRH. I was saying that I believe it to be absolute bull**** that ESH closed with so many people not making dollar number one.
Sounds like you had a beer or 8 before you began to post
By the way...thank you for the compliment. People who are in the know and on the money are the ones who have their heads out of the sand....as you accuse me.
People who are clueless, or refuse to see the truth...see closest mirror....have their heads buried in the sand.
Posted by hottopics (anonymous) on September 14, 2007 at 4:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Newman Hospital, my family motto is you dont go to Newmans to get better, you go to die. Isnt that sad???
Whats even worse than medocre care, if you dont pay that bill asap BOOM to collection. Even people with no insurance get no breaks in that hospital and they are MAKING MONEY???
Its just another reason why anyone decent in the medical field LEAVES Emporia.
Not to mention they have allowed employees to access patients personal medical records and use them for their own personal vendettas to which those people are STILL employed at that facility. There are soooooooooo many employees working there that laugh at Lambert and his administration. I will drive the extra mile to get better care. And I do.
Posted by siamesefred (anonymous) on September 14, 2007 at 5:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Some background of Emporia health care and who owns it....
The new Newman orthopedic office is owned by Newman hospital, and those doctors are paid salaries from the hospital.
The other practices in town are owned by others... either companies or the doctors themselves. Some are owned by hospital-affiliated groups. Medical Arts is part of Cotton O Neil which is now owned by Ttopeka's Stormont-Vail hospital. Dr. Wright's practice, at one time, was owned by a group affiliated with Wichita's Via Christi, but I believe that changed.
I believe the two doctors who left Dr. Wright's group own their own practice. Internal Medicine, I believe, is independently owned by a partnership of the doctors... the old way of doing business by docs.
Jsut because someone practices at Newman does not mean Newman pays their salary. My doctor at Medical Arts can admit me to the hospital without being a hospital employee.
I agree with others' posts that the real fault lies with insurance companies and their policies. Too often these days, insurers are dictating medical care. It's the insurance companies who are dictating how long people can stay in the hospital.
I had complications with my first childbirth and didn't feel comfortable going home when the doctor ordered my discharge. I told the nurse to call him. His response: If your insurance covers it, you can stay. So my husband got on the phone with his personnel office (out of state) and insurance company (also out of state) to get the authorization.
Posted by blondie07 (anonymous) on September 14, 2007 at 8:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I would have to agree with everything that wookdog13 has said about ESH and disagree with Joe_Strummer. I have had very bad experiences as a patient at NRH and very good care at ESH for procedures. You get more one-on-one care from the nurses and they call you the next day to see how you are doing. When I was admitted to NRH one time I was taken up to my room and waited for over an hour before a nurse came in to even admit me from now on. I will go out town if I have to have anything down or need to be admitted. My family won't even go there even if they are dying due to bad experiences. They would rather go Topeka, Wichita or KC instead of going to bandage factory they say. I am sad that ESH has to close and I want to thank Joe for trying to keep it open as long as he could. I also want to add that the doctor's always asked which place I wanted my procedures done at and they never once said I had to have it done at ESH only.
Posted by hottopics (anonymous) on September 14, 2007 at 9:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It is sad in the this day and age that a city like ours puts out such poor care. All of the doctors I find and LOVE, leave within 5 yrs. I have to start all over again as a matter of fact.
Newman you should be ashamed and Im sorry to see ESH go as well. Its just not fair.
Posted by johnsie (anonymous) on September 15, 2007 at 8:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Greed will get you every time! I'd hate to think about what it would be like if NRH closed. Maybe it's not perfect, but life in Lyon County would certainly be inconvenient and endangered for many if it's doors didn't remain open.
Posted by 1mafia (anonymous) on September 15, 2007 at 9:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I just believe in todays world it is all about money with everyone. When it comes to health care for the little man, money is no object, we all just want to get well. But insurance companies want you to get well at the most inexpesive rate. Just so you can keep paying the premiums. Everyone in this great country of ours needs better health care. I am not paticularly fond of NHR, but I guess they haven't killed me yet either. There are times that i had sub-standard care from them, and there were times the Doctor went above and beyond my expectations. But yes it is kind of funny how all the "GOOD" doctors seem to pack up and look for greener pastures. My opinion is yes we need improvements at NHR. But how screwed would we be if they did close their doors!
Posted by admireed (anonymous) on September 15, 2007 at 11:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Don't bitch about insurance companies trying to hold down their costs. That is what your premiums are based on...lower costs...lower premiums.
And, what is the matter with making $$$$. ESH shareholders thought they could make $$$ by opening a second facility that saved expenses by not providing full hospital services like emergency and free illegals care.
It did not work but give the investors credit for trying.
Posted by MelissaE (anonymous) on September 15, 2007 at 11:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hmmmm. How come everyone is concerned with ESH vs. NRH instead of the people who are now OUT OF JOBS?
ESH probably had, what, 50ish employees? Well, I'd guess at least 75% of them will now leave Emporia to work elsewhere.
Drying up fast = Emporia
Just wait until the bakery shuts down, too.
Melissa
Posted by blondie07 (anonymous) on September 15, 2007 at 1:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You have a point melissa. I do think emporia is drying up fast because more buisnesses are shutting down due to bringing the immgrants here to work and leaving other american citizens without a job. There's no other place for people to go except out of town to work after company they work at for years closed down but other places rather only hire you will work for very low wages and speak more than just english.
Posted by create (anonymous) on September 15, 2007 at 7:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I think it is so very sad that a town the size and location of ours can't mount a united effort to support and sustain a good local hospital that offers either full service or limited if that is what is necessary. If there are problems to be solved, state them and see if a solution can't be arrived at. There are enough intelligent people in this town to figure this out. I'm talking citizens, not necessarily county government. Instead of bitching and moaning about which facility is better, face it, as of yesterday, there's only one now. Why not get together and work toward a good local hospital that we could all be proud of? What needs to be done? I'm sure the list is long. What does Coffee County feature that makes them so good? We also need to start worrying about the disappearing tax base in this area.
Posted by admireed (anonymous) on September 15, 2007 at 10:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
50 employees? You must be nuts!
Posted by hartford (anonymous) on September 16, 2007 at 8:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey blonde! "Immigrants" are not the reason Emporia is losing businesses? What? That is crazy. "Immigrants" have been here a long time. Let's take Modine's for example, if they wanted to stay in Emporia, why didn't they just hire "immigrants" for cheap labor? Instead, they packed up and moved to Mexico. You know, "immigrants" are not taking the top paying jobs that you and I are wanting, they are taking the hard labor jobs that white Emporians don't want! You look at the people employed by Tyson's, it isn't the well educated Emporians that are working there, we would go on welfare, or probably even starve, before we went to work at Tyson's! Bottom line, Emporia is dying! There isn't anything here for people to stick around for. Your right, people are moving/working out of town for better wages. MelissaE said it all when she said wait for the bakery to shut down! Oh, and blonde, with your grammar, I assume your on welfare, no job, 4 kids with 4 differant daddies, and complaining about "immigrants" taking YOUR job!
Posted by create (anonymous) on September 17, 2007 at 10:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)
hartford, your opinion with regard to immigrants is well taken; however, in attacking blonde's grammar, you have made several errors yourself. In fact, I see five run-on sentences and two usage errors. In a forum like this, I believe that the message is what counts. If we start parsing people's grammar, few will want to participate, and we will lose the flavor and stimulation of a wide variety of opinion.
In classic argument, one fallacy that frequently surfaces is called "argumentum ad hominem," or Latin for "argument against the man." Writers who commit this fallacy attack the character of their opponent instead of addressing the real issue. It is illogical to argue from irrelevant, negative character traits. Incidentally, the opposite is also true. It is illogical to use irrelevant, positive personal qualities as a basis of an argument.
I rather enjoy all the nuances of language used in the forum, my own included from time to time. People are comfortable with using their own diction and regional dialect, wouldn't you say? That being said, I have very likely now opened my own throat to the knives of dissent. Very good, "cry Havoc, and let slip the dogs of war."
Posted by blondie07 (anonymous) on September 17, 2007 at 5 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm sorry hartford but I'm not on welfare and I work very hard in the healthcare field. I'm also still going to college to get my degree. My 2 children only have one father which we are still a family. Don't be judging me and open your eyes to the real situation in Emporia.
Posted by hartford (anonymous) on September 17, 2007 at 5:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Create, you are right and I apologize to you blonde. I was wrong.
I do stand by what I said about the immigrant situation here in Emporia though.
Posted by blondie07 (anonymous) on September 17, 2007 at 7:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Create, I was just venting earlier about the immigrants. It seems that if there is loud music and these people are asked nicely to turn it down they don't. You then have to get the law involved but nothing is done about it. If it was you or I they would give us a ticket. The same with furniture, trash, etc all over in their yard when all the other yards in the neighborhood are well picked up and landscaped. The city said they can't do anything about it. I do think with more people moving in town, even though ESH has closed, we are going to need another hospital eventually or NRH will need to grow more all around. Hartford, I do accept your apology.
Posted by create (anonymous) on September 18, 2007 at 1:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
hartford, thank you for apologizing to blonde. That means you are a civil person.
With regard to immigrants. This is such a hot topic because so many of us have had mixed experiences, some good, some bad, and we have a tendency to lump everyone together when we become frustrated. I've done it myself a time or two.
What distresses me is the city saying they can't do anything about trash in yards. In my own neighborhood, after many of us complained about a family whose yard was full of trash, the city did visit them, and after finding rats living in a heap of trash, issued a citation. The family moved away and left the trash. Torqued my jaw!!! Yes, they were an immigrant family, but there is another immigrant family living a block away and their yard is lovely, and in fact, instead of flowers, they raise tomatoes and peppers in their neatly kept flower beds. What a great idea. You can't eat flowers anyway.
Across the alley to my west are the neighbors from Hell. Their kids play loud boom-boom music, they throw beer cans over the fence into my garden, and their dog barks day and night. Because of them, I spent $1500 on having a privacy fence installed. They are white.
I don't know the answer. I'm guessing that in neighborhoods where there is a large number of immigrant families trashing up the place that the city is overwhelmed. I think that would be a good topic for a news article. What can the city do about people and their trashy yards? Are you listening, Gazette?
Posted by blondie07 (anonymous) on September 18, 2007 at 2:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Create, that would be a hot topic along with the loud boom boom music in the neighborhoods. Our neighborhood use to be quiet until these people moved in and started playing the loud music. Then they would play it at 1:00 or 2:00 in morning which wakes me up and then you have to try to go back to sleep. It's not all immgrants because some are clean and very polite unlike others. I think there should be an articles about in the paper. Good thinking!
Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on September 18, 2007 at 2:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Create
You're right. This problem has little to do with race. In our neighborhood the problem is primarily white ango-saxon protestant. For example, we have Hispanic neighbors directly across from us. They maintain their property in good order. Diagonally across from us there is a rental that I understand to be owned by a retired ESU professor. The house has been a disgrace for years. The problem is a combination of this slum lord's willingness to squeeze out profits and the tenants (W.A.S.P's) disregard for their neighbors.
There are other houses in the neighborhood that are in pretty much the same shape.
The Gazette ran a feature two years ago or so about slum lords and trashy homes.
They never did follow up. They may have thought that one pass was giving the subject due dilligence or they may have thought that what they'd done would embarrass the city into some sort of action.
Nothing has happened!
I've been to city hall and visited with Jeff Lynch and the folks on the human relations commission. They all say that action is needed. The problem is, nothing ever seems to get done.
I think it's going to take a massive show of public displeasure to finally get some results. I suspect that's so because some of the slum lords are highly placed and respected community members and wield considerable political influence. The city is going to have to decide whether the pleasure of the slum lords or our collective displeasure is the wheel that gets the grease.
Posted by create (anonymous) on September 18, 2007 at 9:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Netloafer
You hit the nail right on the head with regard to some slum lords and the power they hold. As I recall, there was a meeting not long ago about property inspections. It was attended by land lords who were against them. Am I dreaming here? I'm sorry I don't remember the particulars.
I'm all for the massive show of public displeasure of which you speak. Once we get their attention, I'd like to see some ordinances with teeth. Flimsy warnings with no follow-up are simply not enough. Yes, it's true, that takes manpower.
I am reminded of what it was like to live on a military base where housing was expected to be neat and well-kept at all times; lawns were to be mowed, and trash was never seen. If not, tickets were issued. Of course civilians are not accustomed to living under that kind of regimentation, but what makes it work on a base -- strict regulations, quick ticketing and no warnings -- may make it work in a city too.
The Gazette needs to do another feature, this time with follow-ups. And I don't mean a picture of a downtown sidewalk, Chris Walker.
Posted by create (anonymous) on September 18, 2007 at 9:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You're right, trebuchet, we did go all over the map on this one. However, did you notice what the poll question is about today? There's hope for us yet, netloafer.
Yes, it is interesting. Perhaps we made a transition from the subject because people are angry and deeply frustrated by immigrants, slumlords and trashy neighborhoods, things over which we have little control.
We'll have to remember this thread the next time someone accuses you of getting off the subject, tre. :)
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