Suggestions surface at image meeting
Newcomers add fresh opinions
By Bobbi Mlynar
Wednesday, October 31, 2007
Reader poll
Do you think a consultant needed to be hired to improve the image of Emporia?
- Yes
- No
- Undecided
100 total votes.
A scheduling conflict pitted an Emporia State volleyball game against an image meeting Tuesday evening, and the volleyball game won.
About 150 people attended the image meeting, co-sponsored by the city and the Emporia Area Chamber of Commerce, in the Little Theater of the Civic Building. In the arena below, the ESU-Washburn game drew a larger crowd.
“When we planned this, we didn’t know E-State was playing Washburn at home tonight,” City Manager Matt Zimmerman said.
Despite the conflict, sponsors needed to add more seating to accommodate latecomers to the meeting.
The gathering was the first in a three-phase effort to improve the city's image, build on its strengths, and strengthen its weaknesses in order. The long-term goal of the project is to identify goals for the city five or 10 years from now, and work toward them as a community.
Gary Nye of Nye & Associates, a Wichita consulting firm hired to lead the project, moderated the forum, as individuals stepped up to a microphone to give their opinions and suggestions.
Nye had told the crowd of four key areas the community needed to focus on: new jobs, new residents, retail opportunities and more visitors and tourism.
“All four are important to the lifestyle, the culture, what goes on in that community,” Nye said.
Components of the community that draw attention are schools, retail businesses, commercial businesses, health care, employment opportunities, cultural choices, dining choices, housing, city services, infrastructure and safety.
“We’re going to take a look inside, not to criticize and not to bring a negative,” he said. “… There may be some negative things we need to talk about, but we’re not going to do that in a spirit of negativity.”
Real Estate K.B. Thomas was first to make suggestions. He said he believed that the Flint Hills and Emporia could become “one of the best 25 new trips. I’m talking about an innovative, exploratory, life-changing trip,” he said. “Emporia and the Flint Hills have more days of sunshine than Daytona Beach or Honolulu.”
Thomas said he envisioned the Lyon County Fairgrounds becoming a regional convention center within the next 10 years, and suggested a tourist center be built in the Turnpike area.
“I’m sure that we could raise some private money for this tourist center, along with some grant,” he said. “Let’s not put up a rinky-dink, plain-Jane tourist center. Let’s go first class.”
Several who spoke said they believed the city should target bringing Baby Boomers and their 401(k) investments to the city.
Gary and Carol Heiner, who moved to Emporia 10 months ago, agreed with the Baby Boomer proposition. They said they had friends in California and Colorado who might be attracted to Emporia as they were.
“Figure out a way to bring in the Baby Boomers, then you’re going to start to see this town grow,” he said.
Carol Heiner said that they initially had come here to visit her sister, who moved here about a year and a half ago, and had found that they also liked the city.
They talked about their retirement en route back to their home in Colorado, and in within a few weeks, they had found a house in Emporia on the Internet, sold their own home in two days, and moved here before the end of 2006.
“The reason I’m telling you this story is because it sounds so far-fetched,” Carol Heiner said. “Because in the short time we were here, we met a lot of people that we really, really liked, and we thought Emporia was friendly.”
They sold most of their furniture and appliances in Colorado and bought replacements after they arrived.
“We were treated wonderfully. We bought every single thing in Emporia,” she said. “We didn’t go to Topeka or Kansas City.”
The disappointment they found was an inability to get reasonably priced services or, sometimes, any service at all.
When their 61-inch television needed repair, they were told they needed to bring the TV to the repair shop, she said; they could not do that and turned to a Topeka company that would pick up the TV and bring it back. When they needed roofing and guttering, that too was not readily available.
“We couldn’t get anybody to come out, return our phone calls or look at our roof,” she said.
An out-of-town company is installing the roof now.
A similar result came after they called five companies to get bids for gutters. The local bids were $300 to $400 more than an out-of-town company bid, and one Emporia company they called three or four times never returned the phone calls.
“What I want to tell you is that that is our biggest problem, because you can’t get good service,” she said.
She praised the beauty of Emporia and said they had enjoyed numerous art council programs and other activities available locally.
“We have been treated very nice,” she said.
Gary Heiner said that, while the couple was pleased with the reasonable price of real estate, they had been surprised by property taxes.
“The property taxes are almost double the place we came from, so that’s an issue we have to look at,” he said.
The city’s odor problem also is often evident and could turn away tourists and people who might want to live here.
“So this is something you need to think about if we want to grow this community,” he said.
Another newcomer to Emporia said that he and his wife had come here after looking at Iowa, Nebraska, Missouri, and Oklahoma as potential cities for retirement.
“And we chose Emporia, and we’re glad that we chose Emporia,” he said. “It’s a good place. When we have friends come to visit us from Colorado, Arkansas, Oklahoma, and Nebraska, we proudly show them Emporia.”
He praised the education, manufacturing, retail, medical, fine arts and performing arts available here.
“But there’s a part of our town that we’re really not too excited about showing them,” he said. “We have some housing in this town that is really, really bad.”
One of the blighted areas east of the university – approximately four blocks of it – has been replaced with attractive new apartment buildings, he said.
“It’s a great example of what can happen if we allow it to happen,” he said. Any successful business or great organization must have a vision and share it with others.
“I think that’s the challenge for the City of Emporia, to create that vision,” he said, adding that he was optimistic about the city’s future. “If we could establish that vision and the camaraderie around that, Emporia will be a lot different than what it is today. … It’s up to us to do that.”
Nancy LeClear, a life-long Emporian, reminded the audience that quality of life is a significant issue in bolstering the city’s image.
“I think when we’re looking at the different age populations that we want to attract to the community, we have to begin to identify what it is that attracts people,” she said.
Young people migrate to larger, urban areas because they too are looking at quality of life issues.
“One is environmentally friendly communities. Bicycle trails, walking trails. Being able to get around in the community. Promoting health of young populations,” she said.
LeClear said that consultants are needed because Emporia does not have a city planner.
“If we are truly to design and plan our future, I think we need to put somebody in charge of that, not just on a temporary basis, but on a permanent, full-time basis,” she said.
Bill Borst, who moved here 18 years ago, said he did not feel that Emporia State University was integrated with the community, nor was the community integrated with ESU.
“I have a feeling that the university is like another country on the other side of town.”
The university and technical college were mentioned frequently as assets for the city.
Steve Ihde added the nursing school and engraving school at ESU to the educational-assets list, and said the city needs even more educational opportunities. Appealing to parents of students also would be an option.
“We have a lot of facilities space and we have a lot of housing space. … We have a niche as a grouping of schools,” Ihde said. “New educational institutions brought in here can not only support the niche we have, but they can also draw new young people. We could become something similar to an education-type mall, and we are well-located in the United States to make that a possibility.”
Chris Reck suggested adding more opportunities to draw people out of their houses and into the community. The sesquicentennial celebration was great, he said, and the Great American (Flea) Market also brings crowds of locals out to participate.
Suzanne Miller, who moved to Lyon County in 1992, said that as an employee of the Flint Hills Community Health Center, she had seen great strides made in providing health care for underserved populations. The center became a federally qualified health care center in 1997, and has continued to grow and meet more unmet needs, from medical to dental care.
“We need a safer, walkable, bikable community,” she said, adding that also would reduce the obesity epidemic in Emporia.
Robbi Gallagher told the crowd that she has been impressed with the beautiful neighborhoods here, particularly on Rural and West streets and downtown, since she arrived in May.
When she arrived, driving in on Merchant Street, she thought the city looked a little “run-down at the heels” at first, but saw the changes as the summer wore on. She would like to see more beautification done in that area, and also on Industrial Road.
“I think it needs a new image, maybe a new name,” she said.
Gallagher said she also had been surprised that curbside recycling is not available.
Tom Haskett suggested something be done about houses that have been deserted, mentioning a house at 12th Avenue and West Street and another at 12th Avenue and Washington, which has not been lived-in for several years since it was heavily damaged by fire.
“I think those are some issues that need addressed,” Haskett said.
City Commissioner Jeff Longbine told that crowd that as he talks to others, three challenges are evident: diversity issues, lack of amenities and services available to the community, and high taxes.
“We are a community in my opinion that’s taxed ‘way too much,” he said.
Ways to finance government and schools are limited: “You can cut services and programs or you can raise taxes, or you can raise valuation. … How do we raise our valuation? We have to grow.”
Longbine said he believed that being proud of the community and promoting it was everyone’s responsibility.
“That’s the clerk at the gas station, that’s the receptionist at the hotel … it’s the teller at the bank,” he said. “It’s every person’s responsibility in this community.”
Longbine was one of several who mentioned rundown housing and blighted neighborhoods as negatives that needed to be changed.
momus (anonymous) says...
I was at the meeting last night, and thought it was very positive. There were, however, a few things that I noticed that may detur this program from achieving success. First, the audiance was not very representative of Emporia's demographics. The age range was skewed, and there was little or no ethnic minority representation. I know the chamber and the city continues to reach out, but I don't understand the lack of participation by groups claiming they are not listened to. This was a chance to get their voice heard and get the point of view for what is quickly becoming almost half of our community. I hope the city and organizations keep trying go get people involved, but I guess you can only lead a horse to water...
Overall, I thought there were some very good suggestions at the meeting. A couple of things that I didn't hear were a mention of the lack of "good" jobs (something I hear constantly) and the lack of employment opportunities in the fields of emphasis for our graduating college students (another gripe I hear all the time).
I didn't know quite what to expect going into the session, but I was pleasantly surprised. And, I strongly recommend that if any of you want to participate in shaping the direction Emporia is taking, that you attend. I'm still not crazy about hiring a consulting firm to do this campaign (I think organizations could have engineered the same thing), but that decision has been made and now it's time to make your voice heard.
October 31, 2007 at 8:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
First, something I heard Jeff Longbine say was about making a "vow" to improve Emporia's image by next year at this same time. That's it? A vow? What is the driver for this vow? Our problem is too serious to battle it with words. We're not trying to quit smoking, we're trying to prop up an entire city that is losing population due to a myriad of problems, jobs being only one. I would think that someone who sold cars for a living would be more concerned.
Second, you're right about the absence of minorities, momus. I don't understand it either. Yet, when things go awry, many minorities are the first ones to scream prejudice. I remember when Bobby Jo Rodriques, our late police chief, held a meeting to discuss the presence of gangs in town several years ago. Very few people were there to begin with, and only a couple of minorities who denied that gangs were here.
Third, with regard to the noise competition coming from the volleyball game...I should think that the city would have a giant block schedule of major events at their disposal. I should also think that any ESU sporting event would be noted on that schedule especially since volleyball and basketball take place at White Aud. Do they need a city organizer? It's called a computer.
I wonder if those people read this forum? Many good ideas and a lot of fairly valuable bitching has been recorded here. If I were a city commish, I'd read this forum.
October 31, 2007 at 10:38 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lycomu (anonymous) says...
What’s the matter with Emporia? The answer to that depends on whom you ask. Before attending the image meeting presented by the city and the chamber of commerce, I didn’t think there was much wrong at all. There are some, however, that feel there is a great deal wrong with Emporia. Substandard housing, lack of good paying jobs, too many immigrants, poor health care, high taxes, lack of cultural activities, inadequate shopping, etc, etc. Every single community experiences situations similar to ours. The ones that survive and prosper are the ones that manage to get the entire community involved in the process. It matters to all of us, or it should. Individual existence does not happen in a vacuum. All of us are part of a larger group. We must take responsibility for the environment we live in. How can we demand that our city provide the highest quality and quantity of services for the least amount of taxes while we are shopping out of town? Yes, many times, items are cheaper somewhere else, but doesn’t buying locally help the entire community? Shopping in Emporia can and does cause increased sales tax revenue. An increase in tax revenue can and does cause the city to provide more services. When the city provides more services, companies are more inclined to move here. When more companies move here, more people will move here. When more people move here, more houses are sold. When more houses are sold, more property taxes are collected. When more property tax dollars are realized, the city can lower existing taxes. We have many, many things right with Emporia. It is not magic or luck that makes a community great. It’s the people that live there and their combined efforts. The people that are making this effort to improve our community should not simply be praised for their efforts, they should be joined. They cannot do it alone. We can choose to do nothing, or we can choose to do something. Small steps in the right direction will get us far further than simply sitting still. If you want to improve Emporia join the effort!
October 31, 2007 at 11 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Amen, lycomu. I wish you'd put that in a larger op-ed piece and have it published in the regular paper. Everyone needs to see what you have written.
October 31, 2007 at 11:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Renegade (anonymous) says...
I thought the meeting was very interesting last night....but, I think the biggest surprise to me..being new here...is that Emporia doesn't have a City Planner!...Does that mean that Emporia doesn't have a Master Plan?
I agree with you Create regarding Jeff Longbine.....and I thought it was an inappropriate time for Political statements, and promises.
October 31, 2007 at 11:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Renegade (anonymous) says...
P.S. I spoke with the consultant after the meeting last night and suggested that he read this Forum....There are a lot of good ideas, and suggestions, and thoughts on here.
He promised he would look at it today....
Sooo,if any of you were there and didn't speak last night, or weren't able to attend, but you have ideas, or suggestions....now is the time to speak up.
Sometimes it's easier to talk here than in public...and you can be "anonymous". :-)
October 31, 2007 at 11:16 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
netloafer (anonymous) says...
I was at last night's meeting and have the same feelings as Renegade. I thought Jeff Longbine's comments were inappropriate.
One of our big problems is that as a city, leadership included, we are far too defensive, saying in essence that if we just put a positive spin on things everything will be fine. That is simply not true.
I thought that a lot of people had good suggestions on how we could solve some of this city's problems (blight, minority issues, poverty, education).
It doesn't help when people who really care and want to work to fix the problems are being unfairly painted with the "negativity" brush. There are quite a few of us who see the realities and want to change them for the better, but are being portrayed as being disloyal to the city.
Some of the folks who spoke said they didn't see the problems. Of those, a good portion live in the parts of town that are untouched by them (i.e. - Northwest Emporia). But just because they cannot see them doesn't mean that they don't exist or don't need to be fixed. We have significant blight in our urban core. Our young Hispanics are not going on to college and that doesn't bode well for our future, particularly since Hispanics may become a majority of our population within the next generation. We have college graduates leaving Emporia because there are not good jobs available for them here at home. We have extremely high poverty rates and too much dependence on low wage manufacturing for incomes. Our property taxes are extremely high.
These are problems crying out for solutions, not image campaigns.
We cannot fix these problems with an image campaign. We need to face the realities head on and fix them, one by one. We will not become the city we all say we want it to be by wishful thinking or image campaigns.
October 31, 2007 at 11:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Flips (anonymous) says...
Great Comments netloafer!
Also so no one will miss it here is the link to the other discussions:
http://www.emporiagazette.com/news/20...
October 31, 2007 at 12:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Renegade (anonymous) says...
I know there were at least 150,or more, people there last night. There were some that spoke, but most of the audience didn't have anything to say.....Now's your chance!!!
If you didn't step forward and speak last night, you must have some thoughts about Emporia, or you wouldn't have been at the meeting. Or, if you couldn't make the meeting, but you have some thoughts on the Image of Emporia...Please take some time to post on this Forum.
I felt as you did netloafer...From the beginning I felt those that put a positive spin on things would be more credible and listened to....
I honestly feel that Emporia is a friendly place to live, and, has beauty and so much to offer, but the reality is there are some things that need to be dealt with, if we want Emporia to grow....
If the issues can't be resolved, at least we should be given a reason as to why they can't be.
I wish more people would post on this Forum....and, I hope the Commissioners and other leaders of our community are reading this. Your posts would be welcome, as well.
October 31, 2007 at 12:15 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
momus (anonymous) says...
I also have some feelings about the "vow". One major problem with the image of Emporia is simply the difference between words and deeds. People will listen to what you say, but are more likely to do what you do. The easiest way to improve the city is to simply lead by example. If you want people to shop in Emporia, shop in Emporia yourself and then encourage others to follow your example. If you want cultural events, attend cultural events and invite others to come along. The same goes for recreational activities, asthetics and many other valid grievances expressed at the meeting.
When people vow to do "something", the easiest and most effective vow we can all make is to lead by example. Our elected leaders and those paid by community tax dollars should take that vow to heart. And, yes it's difficult, unpopular, sometimes you have to search for things, sometimes you have bad experiances, blah blah blah. But, a slogan or campaign never changed anything. People making individual choices to make improvements are what gets things done!
October 31, 2007 at 12:27 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
acitizenofemporia (anonymous) says...
The leadership of Emporia needs to get aggressive in recruiting new retail and commercial businesses to the City and not just sit back hoping that someone will knock on the door or give us a call, or as one Commissioner is fond of stating, "I have serious reservations about this". The importance bringing in new retail and commercial business is that it generates lots of sales tax revenue, which is paid not only by residents of Emporia but also by the hundreds of people driving through town on I-35. It is estimated that 70,000 cars a day drive through the Emporia area. Emporia needs to capture some of that traffic by bringing in good restaurants and commercial shopping.
During the Christmas holiday season one of the local banks rents buses to take people from Emporia to other communities for shopping and dining. What that bank needs to do is go to the surrounding communities and bring people to Emporia to shop and dine. I know that part of the difficulty in recruiting new surgeons to Emporia is that the surgeon's wives found Emporia to be lacking in shopping and entertainment. We have professors teaching at ESU and living in Topeka because of the same lack of shopping and entertainment.
Let's get our City leadership to go calling on commercial developers to help entice new development to give Emporia a new look.
October 31, 2007 at 3:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Paccifier (anonymous) says...
The idea of the meeting last night was to have an exchange of ideas- It's a cheap shot to knock Longbine for letting people know what he thinks- I was at the meeting last night also, as well as many others over the years, and there were a number of things that could be said as side comments, but I have no intention of doing so because at a meeting like that every view must be given value- so lay off! If you can't give him his right to say what he wants in the way he wants to, why should anyone listen to your ideas? THE DISCLAIMER: No, I am not/ nor have ever been a city employee, or a city commissioner.. I've lived here all my life, raised sons, and care about the city.
October 31, 2007 at 3:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eelork (anonymous) says...
Couldn't agree with you more acitizenofemporia!!! Emporia is an opportunity waiting to happen, but one that will slip through its hands if we continue to have "serious reservations" about moving ahead. You don't see that happening in Manhattan or Garden City. Are our leaders so AFRAID to take a risk that we're destined to forever be just a nice little town that's a convenient drive to other cities with great shopping? Even retirees want to have somewhere to shop other than Wal-mart!!!
I'd love to be able to do all my shopping here but won't until I have more choices. It's my hard earned money and I'll spend it where I find what I want. Guess that means I may have to call that bank and get my seat on the bus if the leadership of Emporia has too many "reservations" about doing all they can to help bring more new retail and commercial businesses to Emporia.
I like Emporia. It's my home and a nice community, but if I wanted to live in a "nice little town" I'd move to Council Grove. It's got a Dairy Queen and a Pizza Hut too...
If you build it, they just might come...and spend some of their money here rather than drive on down the road to fill up the coffers in Topeka, Kansas City, Lawrence, or Wichita. Can we really afford to take the risk of passing up this opportunity that is knocking at our door?!?!?!?!
October 31, 2007 at 3:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
momus (anonymous) says...
I hear the call for retail development constantly, and watch as our community flushes tens of thousands of dollars down the drain with their "recruitment" strategy. First, we have to understand that we have to fit the needs of any retail we "recruit" for us to be successful in any recruitment activity. Thus, we are not actually recruiting most retail, we are simply completing a "needs assesment match" with existing chains.
Most retail chains will not come to Emporia because of four basic reasons 1. Our population is fairly small by most retail standards. 2. Our median income is low. 3. Our trade area has a small population that is not very concentrated geographically. AND 4. Most importantly, people from Emporia will travel to other cities to shop at the chains we want to recruit (why would someone add another store when they already have you as a customer?)
Our expectations of what recruited retail will bring to the community is also off. A major study between three universities covering a 10 year time span with communities throughout the entire continental U.S. found that 87% of retail sales produced by chains is "captured" from pre-existing sales within the community. Add to that the fact that local businesses (which are the most likely to get displaced) return money to the local economy 70% more efficiently than chains and you get a net zero (or worse) return on investment.
The best way to grow retail is to grow the job base with good jobs that raise our median income. Otherwise, you simply shift retail from one area to another and encourage sprawl, which is the quickest way to increase property taxes. Finally, do you really think that someone traveling on the turnpike is going to drive to our Home Depot as opposed to their own?
October 31, 2007 at 3:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
slipandslide (anonymous) says...
its best to spend your money in your home town when you can there will always be things that need to be bought elsewhere, but a majority of things are right here in town where local businesses make the town grow and most store owners will do what they can to keep your business, if they know what locals find interesting, or important.
October 31, 2007 at 4:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
acitizenofemporia (anonymous) says...
In response to "Moomus", you will not find 85% of retail sales "captured" from pre-existing sales in Emporia, because there are no pre-existing sales of the same product for sale in Emporia. That's the point! Let's not take the attitude that you expouse as it is the same as our leaders. Let's go after retail and not sit back with an "oh they won't come here" attitude. Let's go find out if they will! The attitude that you present is what is wrong with Emporia. We can get new commercial if incentives are given like in any other community. Look at Hays, Garden City, Salina and Dodge City and then tell me that retail won't come to Emporia.
October 31, 2007 at 4:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
momus (anonymous) says...
Actually you will, because as studies have found people do not view chains as destinations. They view cities as destinations. Thus, as peer reviewed studies compiled by a decades worth of data by departments of three seperate universities have found, people that were spending money out of town continue to do so. The people that were shopping in town will continue to do so, just at the different location.
By the way, if you look at the cities you mention and their changing sales, pull factors and demographis you will find what I'm telling you to be true. The attitude I have isn't what's wrong with Emporia. The magic bullet, if we just do this one thing everything will be all rainbows and fairies attitude is what is wrong with Emporia. Development is more than one single phase. If we do things out of order (like building a roof before a foundation on a house) you do much more harm than good. Build the jobs and retail will come. No retailer from any national chain is sitting back saying "who can we help grow today?" They are looking to take advantage of growth that predates their arrival. Show job, median income and population growth and the rest takes care of itself. Do some actual numbers based, peer reviewed journal research and then tell me I'm what's wrong with Emporia acitizen!
October 31, 2007 at 4:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
netloafer (anonymous) says...
Paccifier
The reason for the meeting last night was for Emporia's leaders to listen to the public, not the other way around. Mayor Johnson and Commissioner, to their credit, listened to what the public had to say.
The commissioners will have ample time to express their views about development at the appropriate time.
What I saw was a commissioner who didn't like what he was hearing and took the time to scold people for not expressing more positive thoughts about Emporia.
While there were some negatives I felt that the public was trying its dead level best to give the consultants and the commissioners ideas to consider,. There was plenty of valuable input from the public, but in the end it got drowned out by commissioner Longine's apparent need to chide the citizens of Emporia. It was unncessary and unwarranted.
It does not necessarily follow that someone trying to expose this city's problems and offering solutions is deserving of a lecture. There are a lot of us who really care about the future of this city. We have a stake in this too.
I also agree with momus. Our current development strategy on both the retail and commercial sides seems short-sighted. The focus on big box and low wage manufacturing is not going to reap the rewards promised.
October 31, 2007 at 4:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
vankamp (anonymous) says...
I have one comment. When Jeff Longbine's wife goes to Lawrence to get her haircut (because no one in Emporia can do it right) does she tell everyone there the wonderful things about Emporia. Such a hypocrite.
October 31, 2007 at 4:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Paccifier (anonymous) says...
Gee Whiz netloafer, I didn't know you set the rules for who could/ could not speak at the meeting - are we into sensorship now? Are you going to try to take this venue over too with your self-important decissions? It's a city meeting, in a city facility, I pay my taxes, and I am OK hearing from him- what gives you the right to decide?? You have no right to extend yourself that far as to say who can talk. Are you a follower of Fred? As far as what I heard- a different side of the coin- are you afraid of somone disagreeing with you? Why shouldn't his position be stated- He has that right- and in my mind, we ought to know the position of each Commissioner on the issue as we go into this- or are you afraid to know from what direction they approach this? Jeff NEVER drowned out anyone- The moderator/consultant ran the meeting, and Jeff only spoke at lenghth that one time, and that was much shorter than many.
October 31, 2007 at 5:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
netloafer (anonymous) says...
Paccifier
I didn't set the ground rules, the the consultants did. They said the meeting was to get public input for the commissioners to consider in their city plans for the future.
The only agenda and stake I have in this is to make Emporia a better place for all Emporians.
No one censored Jeff Longbine.
No one on this forum, myself included, questions Jeff's right to speak. What we're saying was that it wasn't prudent. The consultants held the meeting to get input FROM the public FOR the commissioners to HEAR. In the end, he and four other commissioners are going to have the final say and that's okay. That's what we elected them for. I think last night the commission's interests would have been much better served to just listen to what the public had to say.
I pay my taxes too.
I'm not sure who you mean by Fred. If it's Fred Phelps I'll say categorically that he is a vile person with a vile agenda He is a despicable man and his ideas are abhorent to me and anyone of good will.
I'm not afraid of anyone disagreeing with me. My guess is that I'm in the minority on a lot of things here in town. There are many people who think absolutely nothing is wrong with Emporia. I'm not one of them.
October 31, 2007 at 5:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
acitizenofemporia (anonymous) says...
If we have to spend another 20 years working on the foundation as you suggest, "momus", we'll never have a roof and the groundwork will erode away. I don't care how many studies you quote that say that "chains" are not veiwed as "destinations". Tell that to all of the people that visit Lowe's, Home Depot, Best Buy, Kohl's and similar retail outlets on a daily basis. I'd venture to say you'll find many more travelers stopping and spending money at any of these retail chains in one day than the money spent in Emporia by visitors to Red Rocks in a whole year.
Furthermore, retail development doesn't just bring in goods for sale, there are even people EMPLOYED there! What a unique idea...products AND jobs...
If you want to see how an aggressive, forward looking city markets their town, call Liberty, Missouri's, city development department. Request their brochure telling about development opportunities in their city. Talk with some of the residents. You'll find how proud they are of their city leaders' marketing strategy.
Liberty's development stategy is something Emporia could learn from before our foundation crumbles.
October 31, 2007 at 6:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
momus (anonymous) says...
Yes, forget the facts we know what we know! Here's a job stat for you: For every new job a chain retailer creates, between 1 and 3 are destroyed, but don't bother checking that one out because it's part of one of those darn studies. You know, the ones that actually look at quantified data instead of listening to people that know what they know regardless of the facts.
Again: studies, research, facts. Before we take a course of action, we might check into what actually happens when other's have taken the course you suggest. And, when it comes to being aggressive, our own paper went out of their way to contact Target, and they said no (and it didn't cost us a $70,000 study). But you're right, if we just have a cool brochure a multinational corporation won't look at things like population, density, median income, average age or psychographics. They'll just see the pretty brochure and be overwhelmed.
October 31, 2007 at 7:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Good comment, netloafer. Let me repeat it here: "What I saw was a commissioner who didn't like what he was hearing and took the time to scold people for not expressing more positive thoughts about Emporia." Exactly!
This meeting was called specifically for public input. We didn't go to that meeting to be scolded by a city official. It's difficult enough to get people to attend meetings like this to begin with. Also, that may have discouraged anyone from attending in the future. Those city officials will have plenty of time later on to make decisions. But for now, it's our turn. We were invited to give input; we showed up!
October 31, 2007 at 7:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Pingeon (anonymous) says...
It's pretty nice to see all these comments here. I'm glad to see that Emporia is taking an interest in getting some improvements done. I wish I could have been at the meeting the other night to hear what is being talked about.
I was born and raised in Emporia. I graduated Emporia High and then went on to graduate from Emporia State. Unfortunately, I was pretty much forced to leave after that. I had a degree in computer programming and the job pickings were very slim. About the only thing around at that time was Birch Telecom and I could see they were starting to cut staff. I didn't feel like waiting around to see if I could make it last. The opportunities were much greater elsewhere and the pay scale was about double. Sadly, I had to pack up and leave.
To this day, I would gladly move back if I could get the pay and benefits that I currently receive. I am lucky in that I live close enough to visit fairly often. I always enjoy coming back and feel like I am at home as soon as I roll into town. It seems that there have been many changes every time I get there. Most for the good. Some for the not so good. All in all, it's still home.
My point here is that I think Emporia would do good to try and attract the business that are going to be the "higher paying" jobs. The retail and restaurants that everyone is talking about attracting will follow very fast if the economic base can support them. A major chain such as Home Depot, Lowes, Kohls, etc. will not move in until their research tells them that the town will not only be able to support them, but make them a good return on their investment. They won't even open shop and break even.
Anyway, that’s my 2 cents for what it’s worth. I wish something would change so I could move back. However as it stands currently, that won’t happen until I retire. Sadly, that is many years down the road too.
October 31, 2007 at 8:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
4Jayhawks (anonymous) says...
Several years ago wasn't there an opportunity to have some retail where the fair grounds are?? If I remember right there was a great controversy over letting the fair grounds be moved to a different location. And whatever happened to something going into the old modine plant? I noticed the other day a lease sign out front.
October 31, 2007 at 8:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
momus (anonymous) says...
A few years ago people wanted to open the fair grounds up for development. It was the original preferred site location for Walgreen’s. However, the donation of the fair grounds came with extremely specific instructions which prevented the city/county from profiting from the sale of the land. Essentially, the money gained from the sale of the fair grounds would have gone to charity, and then the citizens of Lyon County would have had to foot the bill for new fair grounds in a separate location. It was kind of a loose loose situation.
The Modine plant is still in play, but we aren't that attractive to most chains right now. Our population isn't growing, and our population, trade area and median income are primary factors these retailers are looking at when locating their businesses. This past spring I had the opportunity to actually sit down with a gentleman in Seattle that placed different national chains into different locations for about thirty years. He explained that the process isn't so much recruiting as going down a check list to make sure that we met all the company's needs. Right now, we simply don't meet the needs of some of the companies we are trying to recruit. So, if you want the national retailers, work to get our numbers to the point that we become more attractive. It's that simple.
That being said, I'm sure after hearing some local politicians and our city manager speak that we will continue to pour money into consulting pools, and put together massive incentive packages rather than working towards building something sustainable. We are simply wasting tax dollars until we make the commitment to grow our job base, median income and population.
October 31, 2007 at 9:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
emporian (anonymous) says...
Actually, the original preferred site for Walgreens was Fire Station #2 and they offered something like 1.5 million for FS #2. Home Depot or Lowes (or something very similar) were the ones that were so interested in the fairgrounds.
Median household income, (1999) $32,819
That hasn't changed much. Everyone knows wages are low here. Even the city cant keep workers (or get people to apply), and many people think these are the "gravy train" jobs to have in this town.
People wonder why downtown is dying. It is because nobody can afford to shop there. I can go to Kansas City and get the same products for hundreds less even figuring in travel and such. When you only make 32,000 a year, a few hundred here and there really adds up.
I know there is blight, but when all your money goes for keeping the lights on and feeding your family there isnt a whole lot left to fix up a house.
The reason Emporia is down is simple... money. Taxes are high, the housing market is outrageously high, and wages are very low. There is absolutely nothing to attract new people into town. There are very few white collar jobs. People are moving elsewhere to make a living.
Right now people are talking with there feet. Look how fast Olpe is growing. Very few houses to be had in surrounding communities and the houses that do come up for sale quickly sell.
October 31, 2007 at 10:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
emporian (anonymous) says...
Oh, and the reason the commission doesnt see it. The NW corner of Emporia is very well represented in this city. This town needs to have districts. That way all of the town's residents can easily voice concerns, and the commissioner from that part of town sees the problems it faces everyday. They would be intereacting with the people there.
Its pretty sad that as soon as Longbine announced he was running for commission you knew he was going to win.
October 31, 2007 at 10:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
twgriff (anonymous) says...
Your problem is not with the image of Emporia, but with the image of the midwest - i.e. low salaries, lower standard of living, etc.
October 31, 2007 at 10:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
eelork (anonymous) says...
Okay, so if all those "academic" studies tell us there is no hope for retail and commercial growth in our community because of the lack of industrial development, i.e., jobs...then what is the community doing to fit that need?
Who's in charge of recruiting for jobs--the RDA, the City, the Chamber, Kent Herrman? There are some pretty large buildings sitting empty along Logan Avenue... If Emporia can't produce a workforce to entice corporations to locate here then why not?
Is all of this discussion just a waste of breath because people are more interested in attacking a commissioner for voicing an opinion? It sounds like just another excuse to do nothing and make sure Emporia is nothing more than a retirement community conveniently located between thriving, forward looking cities.
October 31, 2007 at 11:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Paccifier (anonymous) says...
Well, netloafer, I was answering you- but I blew the 3000 character limit apart x a bunch. Sorry, you are not the minority, they didn't come last night- Even Jesse Solis was not there. Most minorties in our community do not want to be involved- Those who have been here a long time know things will fall where they do, and they may not even be affected. Those here new in town may not know about participation, or have no documents, or do not care.
Now, I can't rebuild the great piece I had written, but in short, I think that the town really needs a new attitude- I have no idea how to do that, but it shows- Listen to the people from away from here who love the town. We need to work together not running down the city commission when we really may not understand everything they do-
We have a problem of two faces- I've been going to budget meetings many years off and on, and numerous other meetings- Did you get to the Wolf Creek plant discussions? Those were good- Anyway- the budget comes along- and they propose a new city planner & office to help the city- BUT NOOOOOO- That means taxes, so the Commission & staff listen and cut new growth in the budget- lots gone- No New Taxes- until the hearings come, and the second face comes in, we need things that have been cut shame on the commision- so the budget goes up a bit- but still no planner because it didn't look like it would affect us personally- and this isn't the first year of this either- and people gripe about taxes and that da**ed City Commission- Now, the budget is done and in place and comes the image meeting- and here are many of the same people that griped about no tax increases- griping about no planner, so we had to hire a consultant- because we have NO PLANNER- But they want a bigger museum and instant job creation, and a 5 story concrete cowboy. But remember, at least this image thing is with the Chamber of Commerce, so not all on the city- PART TWO COMING
October 31, 2007 at 11:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
momus (anonymous) says...
Emporian,
Sorry to be argumentative, but the fire station was site choice number two for Walgreen’s. Site number three was the mall. I actually made another site recommendation (which they didn't take), but the fair grounds were the first site choice. I have a direct contact (I was best man at the wedding of one of the regional offices employees) within the Walgreen’s regional office (before its recent split into three offices) and actually had quite an extensive conversation with one of the Walgreen’s officials "in the know" about two years before Walgreen’s opened here in town. Corporate management in Walgreen’s had specific traffic wants and needs, and a 6th and Industrial location would have filled those perfectly, but they couldn't get the deal done.
As for the downtown/emporia prices: where are you shopping? I'm sure some businesses have higher prices simply because they can't move the volume of products in a 26,000 person community that you can in a 2.2 million person metroplex, but I haven't found pricing to be that far off. Actually, I've found some products that were at the same price or lower in Emporia than the same products in the KC metro. Some brands actually require that the manufacturers suggested retail price is adhered to regardless of location, so I'm curious what you were looking for downtown that had that large of a price difference.
I'll agree with all of you about the money/jobs issue. We have some bright people in the community, and we just need to quit diluting our focus. If we have the jobs and an effective zoning strategy in place, the rest of what we want will come. Retail chains aren't stupid, if they feel they can make a profit in an area they will come. Obviously, something is lacking in our demography or they would be here already, so it is time to address those issues (jobs, population, median income, etc.).
November 1, 2007 at 5:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
siamesefred (anonymous) says...
I agree that people driving by who already have Home Depot and Lowes wouldn't stop at ours. But would Burlington and Lebo residents choose to come to ours rather than drive to Topeka?
I continue to be amazed that someone who makes $32,000 would pay for the drive to KC to purchase items for a bit less than they can find in Emporia. If we're talking big-ticket items like appliances or vehicles, I could see it. On the other hand, has anyone tried to get local businesses to match prices?
I have one friend who shops at Nebraska Furniture Mart for selection and prices, then brings the info back to a local furniture store. The local store orders exactly what my friend wants and either matches the price or at least what the price would be with NFM delivery charges. That sacrifice on the part of the business owner produces customer loyalty. I'm willing to bet other businesses would do that if we just ask.
Personally, I can't stand the price of gas to travel out of town for shopping. On the other hand, when I'm in another town for a reason (sports for my kids, visiting family, etc), I usually try to plan some shopping. Funny, but unless I'm looking for something specific (like Kohls wedding registry), I often can't find anything I really believe I need enough to buy it.
Where I fail to support the local economy is on the Internet. If I can't find what I want locally, I hit cyberspace and start looking. On the other hand, a number of vendors will allow my online shopping but deliver to my local store at no cost to me (JCPenney, Payless ShoeSource). And for my kids' clothes, I hit eBay, which is easier for me than hitting garage sales.
Just my 2 cents, but I think there is some benefit to trying to attract retail, but I also think we should make an effort to shop locally as much as possible. I know that local business owners who don't have to answer to corporate have the power to negotiate... or make up the difference in great customer service as has been noted on another thread.
November 1, 2007 at 7:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
netloafer (anonymous) says...
siamesefred
I think that a lot of us shop locally wherever possible. But I don't think that the price of gas has gotten so prohbitive that it would prevent people from going to Topeka to get something for a better price. The trip to Topeka is 50 miles each way. That amounts to about five gallons of gasoline, or about $15. If people are going to purchase something at Lowe's or Home Depot they're going to save more than $15. Also, folks go to Topeka to get other things they can't get here. They go to electronics stores like Best Buy and stop at Red Lobster or Outback for something to eat.
Also, my guess is that the people who shop in Topeka, Kansas City, or Wichita aren't the Emporians at the low end of the wage scale. They're the people with good salaries and plenty of disposable income.
My wife and I bought our appliances here, from Sears, Hill's, and Guion's. We bought our furniture elsewhere. We looked here first and saw that the quality of what we wanted wasn't available. We shopped both downtown furniture stores and it was an awful experience. We looked at Guion's and found that they could order what we wanted, but the cost of shipping and the markup made the price offered far higher than we could get at even an upscale store in the other markets. We tried negotiating down, but were told that the higher price was the best price they could offer.
In smaller towns it seems to be the niche players that succeed. Atchison is a pretty run down city. But there is one local store, Nell Hill's, that is a real oasis. People from all around the area, and the country, go to Atchison to shop there. Why? Because it's unique, the prices are right, the selection is incredible, and the service is great.
I think we need to admit that momus is right. We need to move our household incomes up, expand our job base to include the higher paying jobs in this new economy, and then find the retail niche that people will support.
November 1, 2007 at 7:58 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sg (anonymous) says...
This was several comments back, but something about the Target bugs me. I remember when the article ran in the Gazette, and the Target representative said that stores where not built in towns with less than 100,000 people. Then, how did Manhattan get one? Manhattan's population just recently hit 50,000, and they've had a Target for several years. Maybe not the most important point to this discussion, but I've always wondering in the back of my mind why this wasn't questioned.....
November 1, 2007 at 8:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
momus (anonymous) says...
I work on a state board with a couple of officials from Manhattan, and I'll try and answer your question to the best of my ablility sg. I asked basically the same question of my collegues, and this is what I got: When you talk about Manhattan, you are really talking about the Manhattan, Fort Riley and Junction City area. Essentially, you have a 350,000 person trade area (versus Emporia's which is around 55,000). Also, remember that college students aren't always counted in our general census numbers for population, and because K-State has a population slightly less than the city of Emporia's, it tends to skew population figures up from a retail perspective.
That being said, the Target in Manhattan isn't meeting corporate expectations (this coming from an in town gentleman that I trust very much). A regular Target has to generate in the neighborhood of about $45 million dollars per year to remain viable. We have about $268 million dollars in retail sales TOTAL anually in Emporia, as a comparison figure. So, you are talking about a trade area more than six times size that was expected to boom economically (and right now they are in a bit of trouble because of the failure to meet those expectations.)
I hope that answered your question sg. If not, clarify what you want to know exactly and I'll try and find an answer for you.
November 1, 2007 at 9:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
siamesefred (anonymous) says...
If I remember right, the 100,000 population figure for Target also included area pull... how many shoppers they can pull from other areas. If Manhattan can prove that folks in Wamego, Leonardville, Clay Center, Council Grove will come to them rather than Topeka, then Manhattan can get a Target.
It's the same reason that Hays and Garden City get Targets and other stores.
As long as Burlington folks head to Topeka, Eureka heads to Wichita, Council Grove heads to Topeka or Manhattan, Emporia won't be popular with bigger retailers.
As for the gas being worth it for large-scale purchases at Hoome Depot or Lowes, you're right. Last time we had a big remodeling project, we were in Salina visiting family. We stopped at the Lowes there and bought everything we needed for the project... fixtures, flooring, etc. The little things we forgot came from Sutherlands or Mark II when we got home.
November 1, 2007 at 9:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
To quote netloafer, "I think we need to admit that momus is right. We need to move our household incomes up, expand our job base to include the higher paying jobs in this new economy, and then find the retail niche that people will support."
I'd like to add that we also need to lower property taxes. I'm in central Emporia and everytime I make the slightest improvement or replace something, my taxes climb ever higher.
There have been some excellent contributions to this forum. Let it continue. It is apparent that this image problem is a big one and many people are not only concerned, but willing to participate in a solution.
Pacifier, where is part II?
November 1, 2007 at 10:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lycomu (anonymous) says...
This as been and will hopefully continue to be a very constructive discussion. There have been a large number of very interesting ideas expressed. This is only the beginning though. Good ideas are similar to standing on a railroad track, pointing in the right direction. If you dont move your feet, you will never get to your destination and if you don't move fast enough, a train will run over you.
November 1, 2007 at 10:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Paccifier (anonymous) says...
I was working on part 2 about 12:30 this AM, I hit something, or did something, or sneezed- and it blipped off someplace- I work fulltime- get up at 5:30, so I went to bed- sorry, I'll putter back to irritate you - But think about this please- Aren't all these things related? The Image stuff, the present argument about rental housing conditions that Phl Dillon has addressed so well, and the Comprehensive Plan now being worked on- Is there any coordination of these efforts, or are we going in 3 ways? And I do not mean to insult anyone on remarks like the 5 story cowboy- it just reminds me of those promo cowboys at the gambling places in Iowa, and wouldn't it be better to build the center of native stone? That is what the Flint Hills are made from afterall
November 1, 2007 at 1:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Pacifier, you're absolutely right, of course all this is related. We can't present an attractive town with decent places to live as long as we have such a high number of deteriorating homes all over the place. This affects pride, as does the lack of jobs. It would probably be possible to fit all this into a formula of some sort, and then focus on that formula.
I = J H R. That's my offer on short notice. Image = Jobs, Housing, Retail. I'll bet Momus can come up with something better.
November 1, 2007 at 2:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
netloafer (anonymous) says...
Paccifier
It is all related. I'm not sure the plans and ideas are being coordinated. I guess that's what this consultant is all about. We'll see.
I also think the interest in the future of this city needs to be broadened. I guess it was good to see the people in attendance the other night. The Gazette said it was 150. KVOE had it at 80. That would mean, using the higher number, that only about 2% of the households in the city attended. We need to do better than that.
I think almost everyone thinks that the idea of a fifty foot cowboy at the turnpike is ill advised. It will never be built, thankfully.
People have a lot of good ideas about how to improve the city. I think the city leaders would do well to unleash the brainpower and let folks go to work. I suspect if they did the good ideas could get sorted out from the not so good. But, as I said before, the level of public interest and participation needs to be broadened.
November 1, 2007 at 2:45 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
momus (anonymous) says...
How about: Growth through Employment Aesthetics and Retail. Get into GEAR! Work on improving employment (bring good jobs, and thus population and incomes). Improve the housing situation and corridor’s that people use driving through Emporia as well as other aesthetic aspects of the community. Those things should lead to retail development opportunities throughout the entire community.
November 1, 2007 at 2:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
admireed (anonymous) says...
Appreciate these interesting thoughts. Target? Lowes? etc? Not going to happen here unless we "give away the farm" The comments above make that obvious.
November 1, 2007 at 2:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
netloafer (anonymous) says...
Momus
It works for me.
Incidentally, to solidfy the point you made, about two years ago my wife and I bought a loft in the River Market area of K.C. Developers were just beginning the process of bringing people back into the city to live. When we first bought it there was the market, but not much else. But in the past two years there are law firms coming into the area, using the brownstones for office space. There are small IT firms. And in the past six months restaurants and other things are coming in. The valuations on the homes and lofts has almost doubled in real terms. That means that people's investments have been rewarded. One of the next stages is rennovating the area along the river, with a river walk. That's a project that's just starting up. To our south the city is in the final throes of the Power and Light entertainment district. The Sprint Center is completed and the Fine Arts Center is under construction..
And, it all really began when people starting populating the lofts, good paying jobs came in. The retail and other things followed as a matter of natural course.
November 1, 2007 at 2:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
VerySpatial (anonymous) says...
Good career jobs first.........low paying retail jobs later.....
November 1, 2007 at 3:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
slipandslide (anonymous) says...
good jobs, good schools, sounds good
November 1, 2007 at 3:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Momus, WOW!!! You did it. Get into GEAR Yes!!! I knew you could do it. We can't lose sight of this. Everybody, write that down. We need a poster. How about a poster contest!!! Remember the Twin Rivers poster contests? I hope the consultant from Wichita is reading all this like he said he would.
VerySpatial -- right on!
November 1, 2007 at 5:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Renegade (anonymous) says...
I think a poster contest is a great idea!
I don't know anything about the Twin Rivers poster contests Create...but, I have been involved with poster contests before, and not only are they helpful, and a great Marketing idea..... but, they're fun.
Thanks Momus.!!!!
If the Consultant from Wichita is reading this .. I hope you will sign in..and, let us know....There's some great thinking in Emporia...and a lot of it is on this Forum.
November 1, 2007 at 6:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bdprotheroe (anonymous) says...
I'm stuck on the word "image." I like it. It can mean unique, or it can mean stale. Think about the image of other cities and towns around KS and MO.
Kansas City: The Plaza, River Market, Westport, Crossroads District, Crown Center, Union Station and now the Power & Light District.
Topeka: Capitol city. History Museum. Gage Park. Heartland Park. Expo Center.
Wichita: Riverfront. Air Capitol. Not having been there in a long while, I can't think of much else.
Council Grove: Santa Fe Trail History. Hays House.
Lawrence: KU. Mass Street.
Manhattan: Aggieville. K-State.
With each of these locations, never once did Target, Lowe's, Home Depot or the malls come to mind first (KC's Plaza, well now that's different).
Back in the 1940's, there was a popular song entitled, "Accentuate the Positive." Emporia needs to think about what it already has to offer, and accentuate those offerings. These are only suggestions: ESU, Soden's Grove (riverwalk?), the unused C of E buildings, Teacher's Hall of Fame (Emporia was once well-known as "the Athens of Kansas").
I would really like to see more life downtown. So many of the buildings have such historic beauty! Kudos to whomever renovated the old Newman's Dept. Store, the Granada, Natasha's and I am happy to hear about Amanda's moving into the Kress building. Additionally, think of all those ugly (eyesore) parking lots and 1960's buildings. What am I saying? I think, although Emporia Mainstreet Program is trying hard, most Emporians are neglecting downtown. The past is key to success in the future. If Lawrence can have Mass Street, and Manhattan can have Aggieville, why can't Emporia have E-Town? (For those of us who have moved away from Emporia fondly call the city. "E-Town.")
I've rambled. But, perhaps another reader can pull out from this posting some strong points to consider.
Sincerely,
Brian Protheroe
San Francisco, CA
November 1, 2007 at 7:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bdprotheroe (anonymous) says...
Oh, and two more suggestions.
1.) Get rid of the gawd-awful radio song, "Downtown Proud!" How old is that song, anyway?
2.) Positively Emporia? Can we get a new slogan, please?
BP
SF, CA
November 1, 2007 at 7:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bdprotheroe (anonymous) says...
I'm on a roll, so don't stop me now. :)
"Emporia: Front Porch to the Flint Hills." You know, with the National Tallgrass Prairie Preserve, Council Grove and Cottonwood Falls actually sitting in the Flint Hills, I don't think it is advantageous for Emporia to try to steal the thunder.... considering it is not actually IN the Flint Hills.
Promote the city's cute front porches, that's fine. I like front porches. But, cuteness alone is not going to attract all the visitors, potential employers and residents that the city needs. If someone is thinking about moving to Lyon County for a small town feel, well they are now more apt to select Americus, Reading, Hartford or Olpe to reside. Emporia is only a short drive away.
Okay, I'm all out of wind. It's someone else's turn to post.
BP
SF, CA
November 1, 2007 at 7:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
slipandslide (anonymous) says...
i like the five story cowboy idea, we could build him so he faces the flint hills, make him hollow, put a restaurant in his shoulders and an observatory in his head, maybe a bed and breakfast, then we could look out at the flint hills, he might have to be taller though
November 1, 2007 at 8:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bdprotheroe (anonymous) says...
Kstrebuchet - Easy answer. I spent 21 years in Emporia; from the day I was born at Newman's Hospital until then day I graduated from Emporia State University. It's my hometown. My family has been a part of the community since the 1880's. I'm proud of that fact, and I deeply care about what happens in the Emporia community. I left because, like so many native Emporians, I didn't feel there was anything left for me. I'd like to see growth and development in Emporia, the true reasons for natives like me to passionately want to return to our roots.
I don't have to give my two cents worth, but neither does any other native Emporian who has vacated the City. If Emporia wants to change its image for the better, I think it is just as valuable to get the opinions of those who live there and those who departed. WHY did we leave? To answer to that question is also part of the solution to fix Emporia's image.
Sincerely,
Brian Protheroe
San Francisco, CA
November 1, 2007 at 8:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Pollyanna (anonymous) says...
I enjoy hearing viewpoints from people who are no longer here or are new to the area. Different perspective. Many of us get tunnel vision regarding our personal wants and wrapped up in Emporia drama that we lose perspective. Kstrebuchet...you seem grumpy tonight. Whatsup with that? I've read bdprotheroe's comments several times and could not tell any finger-pointing!
November 1, 2007 at 9:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Flips (anonymous) says...
We don't live in Emporia---I was born in Emporia ----and Hubby grew up on a farm outside of Emporia & both of our families have lived close to Emporia all of our lives-----& it seems that we have spent the bulk of our money in Emporia ever since I can remember!
My Great Great Great Grandfather surveyed & staked out the town of Emporia.
We now live out side of a small town about 45 minutes from Emporia & we still do most of our major shopping in Emporia. When it would be closer to shop else where now/ but what we can't buy in our own small community-- we buy the bulk of it in Emporia.
And we care very much about that community.
But we don't live there any more-------we just spend most of our money there!
November 1, 2007 at 9:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
VerySpatial (anonymous) says...
Please, will somebody do some thing about those tennis shoes at 12th and prairie! They have been hanging up there for years!!!
November 2, 2007 at 1:03 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
VerySpatial (anonymous) says...
First clean up the scum................then good things will come
November 2, 2007 at 1:05 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bdprotheroe (anonymous) says...
For me, and for so many other former Emporians who live across the country and overseas, Emporia will always be considered “home.” What is that old saying? You can take the boy out of the country, but you cannot take the country out of the boy. We, those who no longer use 66801 as our home zip code, are still deeply rooted in the community, and vice versa.
You want to make Emporia a better place? Great! So do we. We are all in this together. The question is, do we act like a team or do we bicker with one another?
What I would be thoroughly overjoyed to see is this contracted team of image consultants, in addition to working with those persons residing in Emporia, reaching out to various former Emporians for their viewpoints. I could name more than one dozen Spartan alumni, instantly, from the likes of CA, OR, WA, AZ, CO, OK, TX, MO, IL, GA, PA, NY, DC and Australia. Why did we leave and what would it take for us to return home? For some, their careers may not be in demand in Emporia, ultimately a move that wouldn’t make sense. On the other hand, there are many who would cherish the thought of writing 66801 as their return address on the envelope.
We can offer a different perspective, viewpoints that cannot be provided by those who live in Emporia. As I always say, “How will you know if your fly is open if no one tells you?” We can offer suggestions that those living in Emporia may not have considered.
Sincerely,
Brian Protheroe
San Francisco, CA
November 2, 2007 at 4:41 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
momus (anonymous) says...
Brian,
I appreciate your suggestions. With some better job opportunites, maybe Emporia can convince people like you to come home. With proper incentive packages for businesses to start up in certain white collar professional industries, we might be able to convince those that still view Emporia as home to come back and open up shop!
It's about job opportunities. I have seen several college students fall in love with Emporia, and then leave saddend by the fact that they could not find a job here in their field. We need to retain those people. People like Brian obviously have strong positive feelings for Emporia, and we need people like that to enhance the pride of the community. I hope our city leaders and leadership organizations can come together and focus on the cause of people leaving town (good jobs) and focus less on other extranious issues.
November 2, 2007 at 8:23 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
slipandslide (anonymous) says...
i like brians ideas too, this was always a family oriented town i know it can be that way again. it would be nice to know that when the kids grow up and go away to college ( across town to esu ) they can use their degrees to find jobs and houses close to home. some of this rebuilding should start with the public schools and finding ways to keep the college grads here.
brian- keep checking in and giving your two cents worth
November 2, 2007 at 8:54 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
netloafer (anonymous) says...
Brian
You've got some great ideas.
I think that some group is already using the "Front Porch to the Flint Hills" theme. One of the great assets we have is the Flint Hills. Scientists say it is the cleanest eco-system on the planet. We need to find ways to capitalize on that without ruining them.
We continue to pour incentive dollars into low wage manufacturing. I believe we need to look more at incentives for smaller, leaner companies in the bio-sciences, IT, and other areas. They pay high wages, rely on skill, and are not highly dependent on brick and mortar expense to start up. Our current incentive schemes are a disaster. If they continue they will perpetuate the low wage, high poverty rate spiral we're in.
We need to find ways to attract this new generation of retirees who are leaving the workforce earlier, armed with 401K's and good retirement plans. They are less interested in gated communities and golf courses than they are in being part of a community and contributing to its growth and vitality. The beauty of these folks is that they come with plenty of disposable income and the city will not have to create jobs for them.
Another is a the growing number of people from other parts of the country who want to move away from the over-population, long, difficult commutes, political graft, crime, etc.
We need to find ways to attract these retirees and people from other parts of the country. I think it lies in the challenge of revitalization. That's what these folks are looking for. Is there a possibility of creating some sort of urban homestead provision to make some of the older housing stock in the inner city available to them at reduced cost, with the provision that they will restore the properties?
Long term I think the city working with the university and the technical college are key. I'd like to see both use some of their endowment money and combine that with city contributions to provide minority opportunity scholarships, particularly for Emporia's Hispanics, who will comprise about forty percent of our population in a generation or so. Right now the majority of Hispanics here, if they graduate from high school, don't go on to college. They either leave or wind up in low wage jobs. That's a trend that needs to be reversed if we are to flourish in the future.
Another idea is the possibility of creating a regional bio-science, bio-tech, I.T research campus that would provide jobs for graduating students. The governor has said she wants Kansas to be on the leading edge of the new technology and the new economy.
The problem with all of these dreams is that they require funding and support. Given our current low household incomes, high poverty, slum lords, payday loan shops proliferating, high property taxes, etc. we are at a point where we have too few dollars available to pursue the dreams and desires.
November 2, 2007 at 9:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lycomu (anonymous) says...
Are the people here engaged in this wonderful discussion, actively involved in the process? If not, then why not? There are a great deal of viable ideas being presented here. I propose the following to the powers that be; seek out these people here and form a committee, a brain storming, work out the details, lets get moving group of citizens that have both the wherewithall and determination to make Emporia a better place for all of us. I volunteer to provide space for these meetings and to be on the committee. If anyone is so inclinded, you can e-mail me at lycomu@osprey.net
November 2, 2007 at 9:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
slipandslide (anonymous) says...
emporians are great at bickering its harmless and its fun. how do you reconize an emporian? they can read lips until the train whistle quits drowning out the conversation and they are always either thinking of a comeback or waiting to hear someone elses comeback to a comment. and when i think of more, ill write again.
brian like you already heard you have great ideas,your a very smart person!!
November 2, 2007 at 10:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
slipandslide (anonymous) says...
my last comment about emporians was only intended to be humor, hope no one is offended
November 2, 2007 at 10:45 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
emporian (anonymous) says...
Someone asked what products I was shopping for and saved so much by going out of town.
Truck: Saved $6000 going to Cheney, KS over what I was gonna end up paying at Longbine for a truck that was the same year with more miles.
Furniture: We outfitted our house from Nebraska Furniture Mart for $1000 cheaper than we could here. My parents purchase all of there furniture in Osage City cause the prices are alot better than anyplace in Emporia.
Matresses: Recently pruchased Mattresses. Got them $200 cheaper than in Emporia plus 30 months no interest financing which makes it alot easier on our pocketbook being able to pay them off with no interest.
Wife's engagement and wedding ring: I was treated by Stanley's and the other one (that was like right across the street cant remember the name) like I didnt have the money and I was wasting their time. Guess what, went to Topeka and bought it.
I go to Lebo for lumber cause taxes are cheaper and they treat me fairly. Sutherland's lumber sucks, you have to stand out there and watch them load cause it is all warped and they give you really crappy lumber if you dont. Mark II is alright.
I can honestly say that Bluestem's is really the only business in Emporia that I patronize regularly.
November 2, 2007 at 11:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Brian, keep offering your comments. You are a hometown boy and deserve to be heard because you are offering a different perspective that comes from living elsewhere right now. My own daughter lives in Chicago, but she has good ideas and asks good questions about Emporia where she grew up.
Tre, sorry you were having one of those days. We could have carted you off to Chase county to taste the train derailment. :)
November 2, 2007 at 12:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Renegade (anonymous) says...
"Front Porch to the Flint Hills" is on a very nice Brochure that I picked up from the Recreation Center this morning.
We drove by the "Recreation Center", and stopped to look inside to see what it was all about,( since there has been some discussion of a Rec. Center for Emporia.)
So....What's that all about? We have one?
There was a pool tournament going on when we went in, and we didn't bother them to ask questions.
Remember....I am new to Emporia, so I am asking questions that are probably a little stupid.
November 2, 2007 at 12:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Renegade, if you are savvy enough to actually go visit these places to find out about them, you are by no means "stupid." Bite your tongue. We need people like you who are willing to investigate.
November 2, 2007 at 12:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Renegade (anonymous) says...
Thanks Create....I guess I'm wondering why they are talking about building something we already seem to have.
also...we stopped in Madelynns, for the first time today....It's a very nice store...Nice quality merchandise. I thought it was a little pricey in some areas..but, I was still very impressed.
Very friendly staff....and, we felt welcome.
They have some information in there about Emporia as well, and when we told the gentleman that waited on us, that we were fairly new to Emporia, he gave us information on restaurants and, places to visit without our asking.
I am sorry I didn't ask his name...he represents the store, and Emporia very well.
After a year, I won't keep telling people we are NEW to Emporia, but it's amazing how much information we have received from the downtown stores when we've stopped in to look around.
For all the complaining we may have heard,or done, we do meet some wonderful people in our town..and we have been treated well.
One more thing.....
This may not be the place to post this....But, I want to tell you all that we had a couple hundred "trick or treaters" on Halloween, at our house,....and, we should be very proud of the kids (young and old) that were out Wednesday night. We heard Thank you, and "Happy Halloween",so many times, and there were some kids (and parents) that thanked us for having our lights on, and decorating for Halloween.
So, we can go back to talking about the run down part of Emporia, the 'odor' and, some of the other issues we have....but, the kids that were out trick or treating this week in our area, were very polite. We were so impressed by the kids, and the parents, that came to our door. Another good thing about Emporia!!!!! :-)
OK..Sorry....back to what you were talking about before I interrupted....:-)
November 2, 2007 at 1:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bdprotheroe (anonymous) says...
Terrific ideas, netloafer!
November 2, 2007 at 2:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
emporian (anonymous) says...
Never done business with Madelynn's have you? I have several friends that did for their weddings. 2 of their Mom's and 4 of the brides ended up in tears. When it was time for us to shop for our wedding we went to Topeka.
November 2, 2007 at 3:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Renegade (anonymous) says...
I haven't done business with them emporian....I just went in today for the first time, to look around.
I'm not looking to plan a wedding any time soon, but, I'm curious if anyone else has had the same problems as your friends.
There have been comments on this forum about Madelynns, so I wanted to see for myself.
I think, for conveniece, they had some nice gift items...I liked their evening wear....but, as I said earlier I think some of their inventory was a bit pricey.
However, there were several people in there shopping when I was there.
Thanks for your comments emporian.
November 2, 2007 at 4:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
momus (anonymous) says...
I'm currently engaged and we got all of our formal wear at the store you mentioned. No problems what so ever. I always hear how terrible everyone is to work with in all of these local businesses, and I don't think I'm exceptionally lucky, but I haven't seen the bad customer service, outrageous pricing, etc. that every one else cites.
I think we're lucky to have most of the small businesses I've seen listed in these threads, and although most comments have been positive, occasionally we see someone rip into someone. I guess that's their right, but whether you are selling hardware, books, chocolate or tuxes it can't be easy to hang your shingle in Emporia.
November 2, 2007 at 5:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
emporian (anonymous) says...
Just wait till they dont get the tuxes in till the day before the wedding and they dont fit, then you are making a mad dash to Topeka the morning of your wedding to get someplaces with tuxes that can fit you on short notice. Or they dont let you try on your wedding dress when your grandmother comes to town. How about the bridesmaid dresses comming in the morning of the wedding with no chance at getting them altered so you have relatives at the church trying to fix them while getting ready for the wedding. How bout Madelynn's refusing to take any responsibility for their actions until threatened with a lawsuit. I have seen all of this and a little more.
November 2, 2007 at 9:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
momus (anonymous) says...
Put the drink down emporian, take a happy pill and chill out dude. If you want more people to open more more businesses, try not bashing the ones we already have.
This is exacty the problem that we talked about earlier in a similar thread with jealousy. We have people that I think genuinlly don't want independant businesses to succeed. They think any small business person is independantly wealthy and take half truthes and attempt to construct some sort of idiotic story to justify why they don't support a town.
We get it, all Emporia businesses suck. They are all run by evil beings that are out to overcharge, act rude and ruin peoples lives (or at least important moments in their lives). I type this with the full knowledge that it will have zero effect on how you view this business or any others, but I hope others reading will have the mental wherewithall to make up their own minds based on their own experiances with all local businesses and disregard this drivel. Man, I thought we were actually getting somewhere with a fairly positive discussion, and this thread backslid quickly. Can we get back on point? This all started because someone stated that they had a positive experiance in a business, and someone working within that business took exactly the action we were wanting (being helpful, making people feel welcome and talking up the town). So now lets come out of left field and throw them under the bus. That makes a lot of sense.
November 2, 2007 at 10:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
emporian (anonymous) says...
Sorry, I just get really worked up when they say shop Emporia first then treat the customer like crap. Then when word gets around and they have no customers they wonder why. Doesn't take a rocket scientist (sp?). Sorry, I will chill but this is a topic that grinds my gears.
November 3, 2007 at 12:10 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bdprotheroe (anonymous) says...
Sunday's issue of Parade Magazine headlines a story about passenger train travel making a comeback: http://www.parade.com/articles/editio.... Emporia once was a stop for passenger trains, and I fondly remember boarding one of those trains for a family vacation in New Mexico. My grandfather, Glynn Protheroe, worked for the ATSF, and I believe still my grandmother is eligible to receive travel passes.
Since the unfortunate fire to the local train depot in 1999, Emporia is no longer a stop for Amtrak. I was just reviewing the Amtrak website (www.amtrak.com), the closest destinations for rail service are Newton, Topeka and Kansas City.
Emporia should consider building a new depot. For me, personally, the idea of traveling directly home by train is very appealing, still. And, I'm certain many Emporian's would jump at the opportunity to travel to Kansas City for the day... without having to drive, pay for gas or look for parking once arriving in KC. Such an endeavor would not only benefit those taking vacations and going to visit family members (notice how I put those in two separate categories... ha ha), but also business travelers. With the cost of fuel skyrocketing, Emporia needs a viable alternative to the Kansas Turnpike, Interstate 35 and the airports in Wichita and Kansas City. If passenger rail travel is expected to experience continued growth, Emporia should consider getting in on the game.
In summary, transportation should be included as part of the strategic theme for Emporia's new image.
Sincerely,
Brian Protheroe
San Francisco, CA
PS: Oh, and let me interject one more comment. For those who might point out that such a venture would encourage Emporians to spend money outside of the city, consider the old saying, "It's a two-way street." Think about who/what the rail service might bring TO Emporia.
November 5, 2007 at 3:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
slipandslide (anonymous) says...
brian, i might be wrong but you sound like you have missed out on the big news in town. click on the story about the somali immigrants ( the article thats getting the most attention) emporia is headed for trouble and encouraging tourism is the last thing on anyones mind right now. of course a train would make it easier for tyson to import immigrants while locals export themselves
November 5, 2007 at 10:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bdprotheroe (anonymous) says...
slipandslide - Yes, I've been reading. I've just chosen not to comment.
November 6, 2007 at 12:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Isn't it too bad that we've had so many exciting and great suggestions on this thread, yet now we have been blindsided and this has to take a back seat.
November 6, 2007 at 9:29 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Renegade (anonymous) says...
yep...and, it happened so fast.
November 6, 2007 at 9:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
lisag (anonymous) says...
Who cares what the "front porch" looks like when the whole back half of the house is falling off.
November 6, 2007 at 11:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bdprotheroe (anonymous) says...
Kstrebuchet - I just left a post following the article regarding "Somali refugees." I'd just soon prefer to stay out of the discussion. Don't get me wrong, it's an important issue. But, I think so many people are becoming so passionate and emotional at this point, I think the discussions could easily go in the wrong direction. So, I'm going to stay out of it.
But, thanks for asking.
BP
SF, CA
November 7, 2007 at 5:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )