Defusing the minefield
By Patrick Kelley
Originally published 01:19 p.m., October 18, 2007
Updated 01:19 p.m., October 18, 2007
It is easy to understand John Burton’s frustration. Emporia Middle School suspended his daughter for continuing to wear a piece of clothing that school officials believe has gang connotations.
What the girl was wearing was a relatively expensive hooded sweatshirt that her father had bought for her at JCPenney. There was nothing about the shirt that would to arouse a parent’s suspicion. It was decorated with a pattern of crowns and had a golden embroidered crown with the motto “King of Kings.” The motif would seem to be more Christian than gangsta.
But the school says a gang called the Latin Kings uses a five-pointed crown as a symbol. The crowns on the sweatshirt have five points.
Schools have good reasons for not wanting students to wear clothing that might mistakenly identify them as gang members. Students who unknowingly wear a piece of clothing or a sign associated with one gang are at risk of attack from members of that gang or other gangs.
No, it doesn’t make any sense, but it does happen.
At worst, the administration at the middle school is erring on the side of caution.
But there is more. Burton has an older daughter who attends Emporia High School. He says she wears the same clothing the younger daughter was suspended for wearing, but has never been told she could not wear it to school.
If that is so, then suitable attire in one Emporia public school is not suitable in another. That is confusing to students and to parents. There should be one standard of dress for all schools in the district.
And what is suitable? All gang-related clothing is banned, but the schools cannot produce a comprehensive list of gang clothing and symbols because gangs continually change their identifying symbols. The members want to be able to identify each other without being identified by outsiders — particularly the police.
That places the schools in the position of saying “We can’t tell you what you can’t wear, but we’ll know it when we see it.”
That’s what put Burton in the position of having bought his daughter a $50 sweatshirt that she could not wear to school.
Given that schools cannot tell parents in advance what their children will not be allowed to wear, perhaps everyone would be better off if the schools stopped trying to tell children what they can’t wear and started telling them what they can wear.
That means school uniforms.
School uniforms cost far less than the mass-marketed designer-label clothing that students buy when left to their own devices. The uniforms also reduce sartorial competition among students and increase the sense of community within a school.
Best of all, students and parents no longer have to try to guess what will be acceptable tomorrow or next week or next month.
Shopping for school clothes would become a breeze. (Outside school, kids could still wear whatever their parents would allow.) The school district would have a sensible dress code.
And school administrators would no longer have to make students miserable and parents angry as they try to protect kids from the secret, dangerous languages of the gangs.
MelissaE (anonymous) says...
I agree 100%.
M
October 18, 2007 at 2:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
emporialifer (anonymous) says...
I agree life would be much simpler, but can you just hear the students now "what about my FREEDOM of speech, expression, etc." Unfortunately after seeing how some parents stand up for their child 100% even if their child is in the wrong - I could see some parents mimicking that same line.
October 18, 2007 at 2:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
madpoet (anonymous) says...
It's not like she can't wear her $50 sweatshirt when not at school. She shouldn't have defied the school once told she couldn't wear it. I agree school uniforms would "stifle" some kids but it puts everyone on the same level no matter their income. Maybe there'd be less competition that way. Sacred Heart school has a dress code and I think the kids look great all dressed in similar clothes. The kids are in school to learn not put on a fashion show. Save that for the mall or whatever.
October 18, 2007 at 3:19 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
slipandslide (anonymous) says...
does john really have to keep whining about his kids suspension? uniforms are not okay, because a few use their clothing to give off a negative impression, dont mean all kids should have to wear uniforms. part of growing up is learning to dress appropriately and the kids just need to learn not to wear something that is offensive to others or is on the banned list. john go put your kids in a private school that requires uniforms so you wont be so confused about how to dress your kids,and so you wont have something to constantly whine about.
October 18, 2007 at 3:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
wanderer (anonymous) says...
I can follow Mr. Kelley's logic, but I'd hate to go all the way to uniforms. To me, it's always suggested that one student is interchangeable with another. However, I wouldn't mind going halfway, with a narrowly defined list of acceptable items. That would give some chance for individual choice and expression, but still set some bounds that are easier than "Thou shalt not wear bad stuff ... whatever that means."
October 18, 2007 at 3:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Considering the "logic" posed by the students who posted their opinions on the other thread that deals with this subject, uniforms would seem the way to go. Granted, those were only a few, but if they represent even a small number of attitudes, it seems that there are a few lessons to be learned.
I also agree with slipandslide about dressing appropriately being a part of growing up. What better place to begin than with properly dressing for school. Even better, how about learning to follow rules without pitching a fit.
Fifty dollars for a sweatshirt? A sweatshirt? I must be out of the loop.
October 18, 2007 at 4:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Pollyanna (anonymous) says...
$50 sounds really high to me for a JC Penney sweatshirt. I looked online and the ones I priced that looked like that were $29.99. Maybe that's a sale price but is indeed different than $50.
October 18, 2007 at 4:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
I checked my L.L. Bean catalog and can buy a really great sweatshirt for $39.50, and it will last forever. As name brands go, I think L.L. Bean is pretty darn good. If either of my grandchildren asked for a $50 sweatshirt, I would simply say sorry 'bout that chick.
October 18, 2007 at 7:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rami (anonymous) says...
I agree about the uniforms. My teenager will be miserable but if this is what will happen whenever a kids decides they don't want to follow rules...so be it. The schools have enough to worry about, like trying to keep our children safe. School shootings are on the rise and I feel the school took the right action by banning the clothing label. If John is more worried about his daughter wearing a $50 hoodie than her saftey....I feel sorry that family.
October 18, 2007 at 7:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Renegade (anonymous) says...
As a fairly new resident of Emporia, I am not aware of what clothing is considered Gang related here...BUT, if I had a child in the school system and he/she wore clothing to school that was possibly inappropriate, and looked Gang related..I would definitly make sure it wasn't worn to school or on the streets again.
Emporia is a small town, and we are not "Gang proof"...
I don't care how much the shirt costs...or how good it looks...This is not an issue to take lightly.
I own a Raider's jacket, that was given to me as a gift ....It is expensive and looks nice, but I would never wear it on the streets of California....and, I would not have allowed any of my children to wear it.
I'm not overreacting either. I'm a female, and I have worked with Drug and Gang related organizations...and, the consequences of denial can be very heartbreaking.
October 18, 2007 at 7:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MelissaE (anonymous) says...
create, I wish I knew you were an LL Bean fan, LOL. I lived 15 minutes from the store. :)
M
October 18, 2007 at 8:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Kstr - GREAT!!!!! ROFLMAO :)
OK, I'll give it a try.... :)
1) He'll run out of ammo during the 7th drive-by (doesn't matter how many he misses, he still takes 13 shots per drive-by)
2) I have to plead ignorance on crack-street-lingo, I don't know what an 8-ball is. Plus I don't have a US-to-metric converter handy (ounces to grams).
3) 2 of the girls turn 4 tricks each, with 1 turning 5.
4) 8/5 of an ounce???
5) 3 Chevys.
6) She'll blow it all in less than 2 years. He probably won't get the chance, because while he's in prison she'll rip off some other guy that will probably do the job for Raoul before he gets out.
7) 22 letters.
8) 22% of the girls, but only because Raoul was in prison and Rufus got ahold of some bad crack.
9) If the 7.50 is for all 16, she's already filthy rich (except for the money going to the crack habit). If it is 7.50 per kid per night, her and Hector need to start getting really busy...
10) Well, it cost Salvador $3,000 to pay the bondsman, but with his crack profits he's still wealthy. Plus, if any US agent tries to stop him, the government will give him amnesty and sent the agent to jail.
How'd I do???? Can't wait to see my score!!!
But, my math might be suspect, because I was laughing so hard doing these I could barely think straight.... :)
October 18, 2007 at 9:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
slipandslide (anonymous) says...
1970 vs. 2007
Scenario Jack goes quail hunting before school, pulls into school parking lot with shotgun in gun rack
1970 Principal comes over looks at Jack's shotgun goes to his car and gets his shotgun to show Jack
2007 School goes into lock down FBI called Jack hauled off to jail and never sees his truck or gun again Counselors called in for traumatized students and teachers
Scenario Johnny and Mark start a fistfight after school.
1970 Crowd gathers Mark wins they shake hands and end up best friends. Nobody goes to jail nobody expelled.
2007 Police called SWAT team arrives arrests Johnny and Mark both expelled even though Johnny started it
Scenario Jeffrey disrupts other students
1970 Jeffrey given a good paddling by the Principal Returns to class and does not disrupt class again
2007 Jeffrey given huge doses of Ritalin Becomes a zombie Tested for ADD School gets extra money from state for Jeffreys disability.
Scenario Billy breaks a window in his neighbor's car Dad gives him a whipping
1970 Billy is more careful next time grows up normal goes to college and becomes a businessman.
2007 Billy's Dad is arrested for child abuse. Billy removed to foster care and joins a gang. State psychologist tells Billy's sister that she remembers being abused herself and their Dad goes to prison Billy's mom has affair with psycholgist
Scenario Mark gets a headache and takes some aspirin in school
1970 Mark shares aspirin with Principal
2007 Police called Mark expelled from school for drug violations Car searched for drugs and weapons.
Scenario Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers from 4th of July, puts them in a model airplane paint bottle, and blows up a red ant bed.
1970 Ants die.
2007 BATF Homeland Security FBI called. Johnny charged with domestic terrorism FBI investigates parents, siblings removed from home, computers confiscated Johnny's Dad goes on a terror watch list
-
Scenario Johnny falls while running during recess and scrapes his knee He is found crying by his teacher, Mary. Mary hugs him to comfort him.
1970 In a short time Johnny feels better and goes on playing
2007 Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She faces 3 years in State Prison. Johnny undergoes 5 years of psycho-therapy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
October 19, 2007 at 3:42 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
treetrunk (anonymous) says...
When John Burton is notified by the police that his daughter has been shot maybe you will stop with the jokes and realize the danger of this type of dress. But, then it will be too late!
October 19, 2007 at 9:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rami (anonymous) says...
yes, chill! It's nice to have a lighter side of this controversy considering the other comment area got just a little tense. If something does ever happen to John's daughter, God forbid it does, but if so...keep in mind that he wants her to be able to wear that sweatshirt because he paid so much money for it.
October 19, 2007 at 10:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
slipandslide (anonymous) says...
if a 50 shirt is worth being suspended from school, and maybe being bullied by other kids, i must be way to old to understand this thing. is anybody up to the idea of having a meeting to keep discussing this? there are different angles to the idea of uniforms, gangs ect. if we can form a group, and use our energy to raise public awareness, and maybe promote some changes that would that would benfit the schools, we will have accomplished some things. maybe we can borrow a meeting room at the library, the rec center or maybe use the lunch room at the middle school and get some input from the principal, i know he is doing his best to keep the school a safe place and alittle support for him would be a good thing.
October 19, 2007 at 12:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
EsqEB (anonymous) says...
"When John Burton is notified by the police that his daughter has been shot maybe you will stop with the jokes and realize the danger of this type of dress. But, then it will be too late!"
My guess is then John Burton will understand why the administration didn't want his daughter wearing these clothes. Of course, he will probably then sue the school district for not keeping his daughter safe from gangs...
October 19, 2007 at 1:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
treetrunk (anonymous) says...
Sorry to upset you Ksterbucket. Humor is important. But in this case there is no humor. Have you ever known anyone killed by a gang? I have and it is not funny!!! Help this young lady live a long life because it appears as if her father is not capable of making adult decisions.
October 19, 2007 at 6:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
A little comedic relief is a good thing. Tempers calm down and good thinking prevails. Just listen to the Dalai Lama chuckle. Hearing him makes me smile and feel good. "Laughter is the language of the Gods."
MelissaE -- I wish I lived close to L.L. Bean's like you did, especially this time of year for all the warm and comfy stuff. But I must admit, I'm only a click away. Just ordered a flannel-lined barn coat today. LOL
Tre, yes to Bill Cosby's new book. Gonna get it. Sounds like a good read. Thanks for mentioning it.
October 19, 2007 at 7:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
slipandslide (anonymous) says...
what is a dalai lama chuckle? go easy on treetrunk, he says he knew someone who was shot, its easy to see where he is serious. someone being killed by another is more traumatic for the survivors than an accidental death. now its time for me to look online for cosbys book.
October 19, 2007 at 11:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
slipandslide,
I was referring to the news this week featuring the Dalai Lama who was in Washington to receive an award at the White House. When he is interviewed, he always seems such a happy person despite all of the misery he has witnessed in his life. He can't ever go home to Tibet, poor man. He always has a little chuckle at the end of his answers. It makes me chuckle to hear this joyful noise of his.
I saw Bill Cosby interviewed on Larry King the other night with regard to his book, Come On People. He himself has met with a great deal of displeasure within the black community because they accuse him of attacking their lifestyles. This book will be good reading for everyone as I understand it. Just ordered mine online.
October 20, 2007 at 1:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Brooke (anonymous) says...
This is getting tiresome, but it will remain at the foresight till people either see they need to obey the rules that be, or until the next big thing comes along. In all the posts from both stories I have not seen that it was reported that what brought this particular design to notice was that a group of male hispanics were gathering before school in the halls with this particular design on their clothes. They are the ones that brought notice to this issue. Southpole itself, is not across the board banned. Also, this girl is back in school, walking the halls spouting her 'f******' this and that daring someone to take her on.
October 20, 2007 at 1:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hogan77 (anonymous) says...
I tend to agree with the uniform issue. I think it would not only solve problems with what can and cannot be worn, but would make life so much easier for the parents. Not only would it save money in the long run for them (Wal*Mart carries uniform pieces super cheap, and halfway decent quality), but it would put their mind at ease knowing that their children could then focus on the real deal of school... LEARNING, not trying to fit in. Yes, our children SHOULD learn to dress appropriately, and not defy their principals. However, we all know, once the kids see one get away with it, they will all want to do it. Where does that leave them then? It would just be easier with uniforms, no chance to go against rules. You can only give so many chances before it gets out of control.
One person had mentioned before, what if gangs pick up on the school uniform colors and adapt to those (this comes from the main story.. Dangerous Clothes)? Well, we all know at this point, there is very little being done to control gangs and violence. I know everyone is doing all that they can, but it is an ongoing epidemic that doesn't seem to be fading away any time soon. I suppose I really don't have an answer for that, except that instead of watching the clothes, the teachers, principals, and parents would have to actually pay attention to behavior changes, Heaven forbid!
As far as the kids whining about wanting to express themselves, freedom of speech, etc., they can express that in the papers they write in school. Bring back creative writing for a change, and perhaps they can express themselves in a different form other than the clothes they wear.
October 20, 2007 at 9:44 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
hogan,
As I understand gang clothing, wearing the same colors or style is less about expressing individuality and more about signifying a sense of belonging. In some areas -- I don't know that Emporia is one of them -- kids have such sad home lives that belonging to a gang is like being part of a real family they don't ordinarily have.
I like your idea about kids expressing themselves in writing projects. In literature, a writer expresses his/her view of the world, he or she offers a solution to problems. Writers don't simply tell a story or write a poem. Perhaps we have some young writers out there who can suggest via art how to cure the problems they see. How about a play? Of course, all that takes effort and commitment. Ay, there's the rub.
Truthfully, expressing yourself by wearing a brand of clothing is the easiest thing in the world to do. Too easy. Maybe that's why some young people do it that way -- no effort involved.
October 21, 2007 at 12:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hogan77 (anonymous) says...
That is probably very very true. They are taking the easy way out.
October 21, 2007 at 2:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
slipandslide (anonymous) says...
ive had some pretty dejected neighbor kids over the years, they come to play with my kids, and always there is one or more is being left to care for themselves cause the parents have their own issues and send the kids outside and wont let them back in for the day, where does that leave them for food and drinks. i ll give them some of that stuff and let them play with the kids awhile, but we are no substitue for a family. like create says the gang kids are trying to create a family they dont have of their own, the kids in the group dont require much, anyone is excepted, but where is that "family" when things go bad? no the kids here are not exposed to the violence thats found in some larger cities, but its almost as painful to be without the support and companionship that family should provide. some of the ex neighbor kids that were little and coming to play with my now teenager, have had some awful lives and bad experiences and they are not even 18 yet. i think if i was rich enough i would build some type of place for these kids to stay till they are old enough to support themselves, but money is not an abundant resource
October 21, 2007 at 4:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
I know exactly where you're coming from, slipandslide. Frustrating isn't it? But the thing is, you have witnessed these suffering kids who have no valuable family life. Sounds like fairly recently. I witnessed the same thing when my kids were teens and they are now in their 40's. We don't seem to be getting anywhere. Look at all the terrible experiences of all those teens involved in the Magallanez case recently. Those kids were real young.
You used the term "dejected" to speak of the kids in your neighborhood. That's a good word because they must feel dejected, especially to see how your child has a good life and they don't. It must feel awful to make a comparison. That might be where some of those "don't-give-a-damn" attitudes come from.
You and me both on the idea of building a place for kids to go for nurturing. I think a couple of churches in town have some sort of after-school program, but it's just not enough. You sound like a good candidate for being a Father (or Mother) Flanagan of Boys Town. That place still exists, you know.
October 21, 2007 at 7:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
slipandslide (anonymous) says...
theres always progress in technology and business, but we dont progress in making kids a part of the community, there are alot of kids who do alot of things. when i go to the high school to help with an activity , its not unusual for one or more of the kids to say thank you. theres alot of good stories,but how the others dont get included mystifies me.
October 21, 2007 at 9:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
slipandslide (anonymous) says...
that thing with magallanez was gross !!
October 21, 2007 at 9:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Yes, it was gross, and as long as we have kids who feel disenfranchised, scum like him will have a foothold. He knew exactly what to say to those girls, and they accepted him with no critical thinking whatsoever. When I was that age, my first concern was disappointing my parents.
October 22, 2007 at 11:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
siamesefred (anonymous) says...
But what if the parents aren't around the be disappointed. Or, more likely these days, the parents are so worried about damaging Junior's self-esteem that they won't say they're disappointed. Instead, they pass the blame to someone else and let Junior slide.
October 22, 2007 at 3:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
I agree, siamesefred, some parents aren't around, or too busy. Oh yes, lots of the blame game going around. In fact, that's the first thing you hear, blame. Frustrating.
October 22, 2007 at 9:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hartford (anonymous) says...
Back in my day it was ok to spank your kids. I had the fear in me that if I didn't do what I was suppose to that I was going to get the belt. ( not fear as in afraid of getting beat, just an ass whoppin) I did get it too, only twice. I was not by any means an abused child. Kids in our day did run wild too though, but where I grew up there was only a handfull. Our kids today know that if they get spanked, they can turn their parents in. So who really is to blame here guys? Maybe a good ol' ass whoppin should be allowed! I am in no way approving of child abuse, I know some of you will send messages saying that,,,,. I have kids and they haven't been spanked but maybe a few times but I let them know I mean business! Are they perfect? Heck no! But they know I am not afraid to spank them and they know I'll do it! I guess my point is this:There is a differance between abusing your child and disciplining your child. I stand by that and I always will. I tought my kids to respect their adults and others. I only hope they raise their kids as I was raised.
October 23, 2007 at 2:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Jburton316 (anonymous) says...
Krissy is my little sister and im a junior at wichita high school south. Wichita is a much bigger town and why is there not a rule about not wearing certain clothing here? People wear ICP, southpole, Ecko, ROCAwear, etc. when they're not supposed to even. Do they get in trouble for it? no. In fact im at school right now and there are 3 people in this room wearing the exact same hoodie my little sister was wearing and got suspended for. I went to EMS when i was in 7th and 8th grade. Mr. Pakarek has only been there for 2-3 years and already thinks hes cool. My little brother currently attends EMS and Mr. Pakarek already has suspended him for dumb things he has not even done. They've looked over the videos and seen it wasn't him, but yet, they still suspend him. May I add that John (my brother) has ADHD and is under the 504 rule that he is not to get in trouble for anything like that. He's a very smart kid. So is Krissy. She maintains a 3.7 GPA and you guys are calling her a bad person. Please! Get to know someone before you really talk stuff. Emporia doesnt really have gangs either, not like wichita does. Im tired of you people harrassing my dad and little sister. My dad has done the best for us, raising us our whole life since my brother was 2 months, who is now 14, all because my mom walked out of our life. If anyone is a bad person its her. She never sends cards or anything for our birthdays. In fact we used to like on sylvan and she lived on lakeview in emporia and not once did she stop by the house. Thats the reason my brother and sister are how they are now. Its rediculious. Its just a friggin hoodie. If she wants to wear it, then let her. Its not you, just let it be. Im proud of Krissy. Where we both go to school together now, we get to wear whatever we want. But i do agree that emporia should have uniforms because when we moved from emporia to wichita, my sister went to truesdell middle school where she had to wear either a , blue, white, or green shirt with tan, navy blue, green pants. she actually enjoyed wearing the uniform!!!!! my brother on the other hand...not so much. so he now lives in emporia again with our grandmother. My suggestion, have uniforms become a requirement in EMS.!
October 14, 2009 at 10:56 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Aren't laws against gang violence just the "religious" sect of our society trying to keep us from having fun?
October 14, 2009 at 11:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
yev_kassem (anonymous) says...
Mr. Pekarek no longer works for the district.
October 14, 2009 at 11:34 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
I'm going to start a nudist gang and we'll attack anyone wearing clothing. Then, the schools will have to ban clothing of any kind! You don't want to be mistaken for a rival of the dreaded nudist gang!
Then again, if they make everyone wear no clothes, they'll look like they're in our gang...hmmm... Oh, I know...I'll start a gang that only wears school uniforms! Wait... same problem... Maybe we should let kids wear whatever they want so long as it isn't offensive. Crazy thought?
'enry
October 14, 2009 at 12:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
methusla (anonymous) says...
I tell you what, why don' t we just get rid of all the school administrators, teachers, etc. and let the kids go to school, if they wish to do so and those that do, can do what ever they want, wear or not wear what ever they want and return the disciplining of the kids back to where it belongs, the parent or parents ! Would that work ?
October 14, 2009 at 12:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Jburton316,
The closest I can come to answering your question about your sister's hoodie is this: The rule is in place. Until such time that the rule is changed, you must abide by it. Following rules is a pretty simple thing. However, if rules were changed in order to satisfy each individual's desires or whims, why have rules? What would happen if we just let everyone do as they please? I don't think you would like the outcome of that. In addition, each school district serves its own community. Emporia is not Wichita.
In the meantime, you say you are now a junior. May I suggest that you pay a bit more attention to your writing skills? Your writing is rife with punctuation errors and run-on sentences. There are rules for those too. Sorry to disappoint you.
October 14, 2009 at 1:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...
Grate post create!
R.
October 14, 2009 at 2:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
HenryVIII (anonymous) says...
seriouslyfolks,
I don't no if you meant to but you also missed a comma! Ol' create ain't gonna like that none! I hope my post isn't ripe with such mist aches!
'enry
October 14, 2009 at 2:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )