Professor explains immigrants' economic impact
Audience interrupts educational forum
By Bobbi Mlynar (Contact)
Originally published 11:10 p.m., November 14, 2007
Updated 12:58 p.m., November 15, 2007
After numerous interruptions that sometimes turned contentious, a forum on immigration economics ended with an unscheduled appearance by Fardusa Council, a Somali who is community liaison for the Tyson Fresh Meats plant here.
The library and the Emporia League of Women Voters sponsored the forum, “Immigration: Economic and Social Impact,” which was the last in a series of three sessions intended to explain some key issues surrounding the topic of immigration.
Rob Catlett, an Emporia State University economics professor, was interrupted many times by questions shouted from a standing-room-only audience representing a cross-section of the community.
The audience remarks focused on specific refugee issues, rather than the general topic of immigration. The complaints included refugees’ driving skills, cultural and religious differences, filling jobs Emporians could have, receiving tax breaks and welfare assistance and their lack of English language skills.
“They adapt to us, we don’t adapt to them,” a member of the audience interjected.
“This is a big country, and this country doesn’t have just one culture,” Council reminded the audience after Catlett’s lecture. “We do continuous orientation for the people until they really catch up.”
The animosity or fear that some area residents feel now is not unexpected, she said, but can be ameliorated with education and time.
“There will be friction whenever you bring people together,” she said.
Council, who speaks seven languages, refuted a remark concerning refugees’ having Vision Cards to spend on food, while they also have jobs at Tyson. An audience member had said that Tyson does not have part-time jobs.
Council spoke louder to be heard over the audience’s murmuring as she told them the refugees might be working part-time “because they go to the university to learn the English you’re talking about.”
She said that the Somalis are subject to the same laws as American citizens and can be sent back to their homeland, where there may be additional punishment.
“And they do pay taxes just like everybody else, and pay Social Security. ... They pay Medicare that they don’t use,” Council said.
She told the audience that the immigrants and refugees do the jobs that other cultures may consider beneath them.
Catlett earlier had given the audience a basic lesson on economics and the potential influence of immigrants who go to communities where they can find jobs.
“Rarely in economics do we find simple solutions,” Catlett said, mentioning that positives and negatives often exist simultaneously.
In the United States, about 150 million of the 300-plus million population are available workers; approximately eight million of them are unemployed. The latter figure includes anyone 16 and over who is looking for a job.
“We will never have a zero unemployment rate. It would be exceptionally undesirable,” Catlett said. “Unemployment of 4 to 5 percent is what we consider to be full employment. ... It’s normal and healthy.”
He reminded the audience that during World War II, when young to middle-aged men were serving in the military, there were not enough workers remaining in the U.S. to fill the jobs that were open. Wages rose as employers competed for workers, and so did prices of goods and services that became scarce because of lowered productivity.
Immigrants can help fill the job openings in a variety of industries, and can increase economic activity by consuming products, goods and services.
The United States, with its 300 million people, has the highest collective income in the world, outproducing both China and Japan.
“The total production of the people of the U.S. is $13 trillion,” Catlett said. “... That’s $43,500 for each man, woman and child.”
Several audience members disagreed with the professor’s statement.
“There isn’t an economics professor around the world that would dispute that,” Catlett said.
If a major employer, such as Tyson or ESU, were to leave Emporia, the local effect would be devastating. The entities themselves are served by a number of local businesses who rely on that commerce to stay open, in addition to relying on purchases from the employees themselves.
“Many of the businesses that exist in Emporia would not be able to survive,” Catlett said. “So, they would leave and we would have this continuing domino effect. We wouldn’t just have a recession, we would have a significant recession.”
A disadvantage of immigration is that “we may find our infrastructure will not support that,” he said. Because of immigration, income distributions may shift. Some will see their incomes increase; others may experience a decrease in income.
Sales tax collections could increase with more people buying goods and services, and property values could go up — and with that, property-tax collections — as a result of immigration.
A member of the audience spoke up to complain that more than 75 percent of his income is paid out in taxes.
“Right now, Lyon County and the City of Emporia are raping us on taxes,” the man said.
Catlett told the audience that one of the greatest challenges in this area and nationally is demographics. With baby boomers reaching retirement age and leaving the workforce, a number of jobs are opening; however, after the baby boom of approximately 1945 to 1960, he said, there was a “baby bust.”
“As baby boom people start to retire, we’re not going to have enough people to provide the goods and services we want to have,” he said.
Scarcity will push up prices and potentially provoke a recession.
The baby boomers’ retirements will deal several blows to the economy and lifestyles of Americans. Since the 1970s, the increasing number of women in the labor force has allowed the country to produce so much more, Catlett said.
Now, there seems to be an exodus of older men from the labor force. Instead of working until they died, as many men did early in the 20th century, workers saved, lived below their means, and increasingly are able to retire younger with comfortable finances.
“That’s going to be our biggest change in the next 10 or 20 years,” Catlett said.
As the baby boomers age, they will need health services, nursing homes, and other services that may be unavailable or difficult to obtain because of the “baby bust.”
“We’re going to face challenges because we’re not going to have enough workers,” he said.
Those workers will not be able to finance the overwhelming amount of Social Security and Medicare taxes that will be needed to support the retirees.
Immigrants working in the U.S. will contribute to those taxes through payroll deductions. As consumers, they also will increase economic activity.
A woman in the audience questioned the wisdom in helping immigrants before helping Americans. She said that education for Emporia children is falling behind because schools are trying to accommodate students who do not speak English.
“So our children are being put on hold,” she said. “... How are they going to accommodate more students? ... Where is the Tyson representative? Are you speaking on behalf of Tyson?”
“Are you kidding?” Catlett said.
More details about the meeting will be included in Thursday's Gazette.
Comments
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stickerbush (anonymous) says...
It would have benefited the group more if the economist had taken the economic impact from a national level to the local level, but he made good points. the concerns are real, the solutions are hard to come by. Perhaps we should go back to the 50's and 60's and start over again then we could change some of the decisions that national, state and local governments have made. But, alas, not to be done, so why not work together to find solutions which will benefit most and not just a few.?
November 14, 2007 at 11:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
"They effectively increase the standard of living in the country."
"There isn't an economics professor around the world that would dispute that," Catlett said.
That's funny, there have been lots of links on the other forums to studies that show the OVERALL negative economic impact of meat packing plants employing refugees/immigrants in smaller communities by depressing wages.
Could it be that..... all these professors he talks about.... lean heavily to one direction?
November 14, 2007 at 11:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
TruthBeTold (anonymous) says...
Exactly, if the Boomers want to eat beef................live with it
November 14, 2007 at 11:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Bjnemp (anonymous) says...
Right on, stickerbush! "work together to find solutions which will benefit most and not just a few". So, what you are saying is, majority rules. For instance, if 70% of the people want the "Seasonal" program to be called a "Christmas" pageant, change it! And if 90% of Emporians don't want to be a "National Refugee Resettlement Center", forget it. Or if the majority of people want Illegal immigrants indentified and deported, do it! And if the vast majority doesn't want our economy bankrupted by refugees winning the lottery in free social services, cut 'em off! I'm with you, stickerbush! That is REAL democracy!
November 14, 2007 at 11:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
steakbuffet (anonymous) says...
I have not had the privilege of meeting Dr. Catlett, but I do know he is an expert in his field. He spoke to give you facts, a basic lesson in Econ 101. He didn't have to volunteer his time, to try to help mediate and explain. An expert presented the facts to a large group of people in a standing room only crowd. How many people sat quietly while the man tried to present the program only to be rudely interrupted repeatedly? Our economy was taken some hard hits in this area of the state the past few years, nothing compared to the SE corner of our state. Those folks have been in trouble since approximately 1980. We ALL were immigrants at one time, very few in Lyon County are 100% Native American. If you are 100% Indian then you had a right to object at the meeting. The Catholic grant was a surprise to the city accounding to the paper. The recent immigrants are here with their papers legally, you don't get into the United States otherwise from Africa. They are here from a war torn country,work hard, and try to live a better life. Sound familiar? Not to the current generations, but look in a history, you'll find your ancestors. The immigrants are here, let's try to work togerther legally. Dr. Catlett did a nice job with what little he had to work with. We have many resources of valuable information in our community. Become informed.
November 15, 2007 at 3:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dick (anonymous) says...
I personally have been to these meetings and have come away with a much better understanding of the situation before us and of all the pros and cons being presented doesn't excuse our legislators from seeing to it that the laws we have concerning immigration and illegals are carried out. One of the most mentioned aspects of the biggest cause is that the business's in this country that hire the illegals are the ones that are really breaking the law. We have in place laws to prohibit this sort of thing, but that's not being inforced.
November 15, 2007 at 7:21 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Kstr, you're right, I scanned thru the article too fast the first time and mistakenly took the statement about no professors would dispute that to apply to the increase in standard of living. Thanks for the correction.
As for your earlier question, I'll repost part of the study findings here:
"We find that as the meat packing and processing industry's share of a county's total employment and wage bill rises, total employment growth increases, while wage growth slows relative to counties without the industry. Income growth, which approximates local aggregate output growth, is not significantly affected. These findings suggest that the negative wage effect, a proxy for worker productivity, approximately cancels out the positive effect of rising employment"
My interpretation from that is that overall wages in the community/county are depressed, relative to counties without the industry.
November 15, 2007 at 9:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
karmadog (anonymous) says...
Why doesn't Tyson pay them a wage that will allow them to support their families? Why do they need food vouchers? Tyson brings them here and I for one am happy to live in such an international city but I think Tyson should pay a wage that will allow these immigrants to live above the poverty level. In fact, if Tyson paid such a wage, they might not need immigrants.
November 15, 2007 at 9:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Kstr, I'm not really that sure about the economic part of it either, but again, (just my interpretation of the study) - when it says that relative to counties without the industry, I would assume that it means overall wages. If the other counties don't have that industry, they are talking about their overall wages. Also local aggregate output growth seems to me to encompass it all. Just my take.
November 15, 2007 at 10:24 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
blulitespecial (anonymous) says...
At least this happened.Whatever you came away with- it's better than being tear-gassed and arrested! By the way,was the speaker talking about the impact of legal or illegal immigration? I never heard that part.
November 15, 2007 at 10:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
slipandslide (anonymous) says...
treb, the local wages are set by whats typical of the areas pay.some places do and always will pay better, when to average pay in town is low, then the bar is set and wages arent inclined to go up overall. when companies look at moving to an area one thing they consider is whether or not there is enough workers in the area who are either skilled for the business they have or if there are enough people who will work for the wages they offer. for example a minimum wage company wouldnt do well if the available work force usually makes fifteen bucks an hour. economics is hard to follow, sometimes it dont make sense, type into the search bar online economics curriculum and that should give you a crash course in economics.they wages tyson paid in the 80 s in todays amount would be more like 18 bucks an hour,
November 15, 2007 at 12:36 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
blulitespecial (anonymous) says...
In other words,only accounting firms and insurance actuaries had a thorough understanding of the subject? I wasn't there......
November 15, 2007 at 12:46 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Kstr, I'd like to repost part of something I posted earlier. I won't repost the links themselves, if anyone wants they can search back thru to the links and read the full articles.
"In the 1960s and 1970s, meatpacking workers’ pay and conditions approximated those of auto, steel, and other industrial laborers who worked hard in their plants and through their unions to attain steady jobs with good wages and benefits. Meatpackers’ wages remained substantially higher than the average manufacturing sector wage—15 percent higher in 1960, 19 percent higher in 1970, 17 percent higher in 1980"
"New companies became industry powerhouses, especially Iowa Beef Processors (IBP). IBP overtook old-line producers by automating more of the process, squeezing skills out of the job. IBP reduced every stage in the process to mindless, repetitive cutting with the same hand and arm motion in what the industry calls a disassembly-line process. IBP and its copycat producers stepped up line speed and cut wages to levels far underneath union-negotiated standards. In 1983, meatpacking workers’ pay fell below the average U.S. manufacturing wage for the first time. Since then, the decline has accelerated—15 percent lower in 1985, 18 percent lower in 1990, 24 percent lower in 2002."
And, most telling of all...
"Unlike workers in many U.S. manufacturing sectors, most meat and poultry workers do not face employers’ threats to move their plants to other countries where wages and workers are suppressed. Some analysts argue, however, that this fact has not blocked a “Third World” strategy by the U.S. meat and poultry industry. They contend that instead of exporting production to developing countries for low labor costs, lax health, safety and environmental enforcement, and vulnerable, exploited workers, U.S. meat and poultry companies essentially are reproducing developing country employment conditions here."
"Although the associated cost reductions were likely passed along to consumers in the form of lower prices, the price impact was probably small because labor costs are only a small part of the cost of food processing."
November 15, 2007 at 12:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
blulitespecial (anonymous) says...
I worked at beef in the late 70's,again in the early 80's.They started us at less per hour in the 80's than in '77.Around $6.50,I think.Now it's 9 bucks or so? I was making $28 per plus all the OT you wanted when I retired from another company-same line of work. Slave labor!
November 15, 2007 at 12:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
"Although the associated cost reductions were likely passed along to consumers in the form of lower prices, the price impact was probably small because labor costs are only a small part of the cost of food processing."
On another thread I had posted a study regarding wages paid for mostly immigrant workers in southern states, in things like vegetable farming. The study there showed that if wages were brought in line with others, the net overall affect on food prices would be at MOST 10-15%. So if those jobs became more attractive to local help, who's income is spent on products here, instead of being sent out of the country.... well, anyway, that's getting a little off track, as we're talking about the beef industry here. Many of the same things can be applied, however. Has anyone noticed a drastic drop in meat prices from the time IBP payed 19% higher than average manufacturing wages as compared to the 24%+ lower paid now?
November 15, 2007 at 1:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
But blulite, remember, you were a REHIRE in the 80's, so obviously (according to Tyson's policy) you cost them way more and were much less productive the 2nd time around.... LOL
I took a $1/hour pay cut during the time I worked there in the 80's. Which at the time was over 10%. Didn't see any change when I went to the grocery store, though.....
November 15, 2007 at 1:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
blulitespecial (anonymous) says...
Haha- Sure is funny that my employer thought thought we were pretty productive at 28,at time and a half,and at double-time on Sunday.I much prefer Kansas buffalo and deer....
November 15, 2007 at 1:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
wookdog13 (anonymous) says...
Are they going to BUY houses and PAY taxes like those who have lived here for a number of years??????????
November 15, 2007 at 1:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
wookdog13 (anonymous) says...
Sorry, but my taxes go to pay for their food stamps, etc. They get the benefits without ever having to have paid into the system. No, our taxes and whatever will never go down because they will not spend on big items such as homes. There will not be any high dollar homes built by any of them. Also Tyson brings them here to get by with low wages, poor insurance and the fact these people do not understand unions. These are benefits for the Tyson company not the benefit of the community!
November 15, 2007 at 1:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seeya32 (anonymous) says...
lame,lame,lame,thought this was a forum to make our town better,not a lesson in civics,I dont care at this time about the rest of the country or the world,I strictly care about our town.You want a great model of a very nice town? Take a look at Austin,Mn.About our same size,pretty much same split in Nationalities like us and even has a large meat packing plant.Biggest difference I see is Hormel gives back to its community whereas Tyson does not.Maybe we will end up "East Garden City" or if we try damn hard maybe we could end up as "Mayberry".Would that be so bad?
November 15, 2007 at 1:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
steakbuffet says: "We ALL were immigrants at one time, very few in Lyon County are 100% Native American." You are comparing apples to oranges here.
Yes, we are all from immigrant stock, but at the time my grandfather came here from Portugal in the 1880's, there were no social programs like SRS or medicaid, or even medicare or social security or even public health to bleed dry. They just took their lumps and were poor until they could save their pennies and try to survive as best they can.
I am only second generation American and the first to be educated. I thank my father and grandfather for making that possible by remaining in this country and surviving the hard way -- BY THEMSELVES. What's wrong with that?
November 15, 2007 at 2:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Right on karmadog, "Why doesn't Tyson pay them a wage that will allow them to support their families? Why do they need food vouchers?"
Is Tyson getting subsidized for hiring refugees? That is the $64,000 question!!!Why won't anyone answer that?
Again, we keep going back to economic matters of simple ratio to proportion. Are the refugees bringing more into the system than they are using? Show me the money!
Incidentally Fardusa Council says that “They pay Medicare that they don’t use,” What kind of reasoning is that? Of course they don’t use medicare, at least they shouldn't be. ALL YOUNGER AMERICANS PAY INTO MEDICARE THAT THEY DON'T USE. Good Grief, that is how the social security system is supposed to work. I hope they don't use it. Not now anyway. Certainly they can use it when they retire. That's how social security is designed. However, they can collect SSDI Social Security Disability Income if they are disabled (ssa.gov).
November 15, 2007 at 2:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Let's see, if the total US production comes to $43,500 per man, woman and child, and Bill Gates alone has 50 billion of that (estimated wealth), then by my math..... that's 1,149,425 Americans that are don't have a dime just to offset Bill alone...LOL.
No, thats really not all that funny.
November 15, 2007 at 2:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Russ (anonymous) says...
wookdog13, your taxes also go to buy the food stamps for the deadbeat across the street from me who is American. I agree with you about the fact they get these benefits without ever having to have paid into the system. This is our governments fault no the Somalians or any other refugee. Are they taking advantage of a system? Yes, most certainly, but so do Many Americans. Refugees also pay into the system after working here and part of those taxes go to pay for food stamps for other families. immigrant and non immigrant.
create you ask, "Is Tyson getting subsidized for hiring refugees" we were told last night that they were not, I would still like to see more information on this as I am not sure even now. We were also told that they pay into S.S. but are not allowed to draw from it unless they become U.S. Citizens
I also agree with you 100% when you say " Are the refugees bringing more into the system than they are using? Show me the money!"
That is my million dollar question!
As far as Tyson paying them a better wage, thats something we need to take up with tyson, the city can not do a damn thing about that and most likly we cant either, does is suck? sure it dioes, but you can not Make a private company pay what You think they should.
November 15, 2007 at 4:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
I'm not sure about the subsidies paid to Tyson either. Although I've heard things, nothing yet that I have facts to back up.
But...... with that in mind, I would pose this question:
Since they won't hire locals, and seem to be agressively trying to ONLY hire/bring in refugees.....
There's gotta be SOMETHING in it for them. Unless you believe that Tyson Corp has a really big heart, and the top brass live in modest, 1-bedroom houses because they are all about sharing the wealth. If you do, please contact me, I've got a bridge in the desert for sale.
So, either
1) they are getting some kind of money (subsidy or kickback), or
2) they are allowed to pay the refugees a much lower wage than local help, and/or are not required to provide the same level of insurance, benefits, and so on.
I really can't think of any other reason. Any other ideas?
November 15, 2007 at 4:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
shoehorn (anonymous) says...
Two small points. I believe that the $43,500 figure is the amount of productivity each worker contributes to the economy, not a dollar figure of individual wealth. Second point, our form of Government is democratic, but we live in a republic. That means we are governed by laws, not popular opinion. (Unless there is a concern to be politically correct LOL)
November 15, 2007 at 4:58 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
shoehorn (anonymous) says...
A third point. Even the Native Americans are not native, they too arrived from somewhere else. They just got here first.
November 15, 2007 at 5:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
I realize that shoe, I should have been clearer in my post. I was just trying to point out that things are not distributed all that equally - so by extension, there are those who contribute much more to our economy, and those that contribute much less. Or are an overall negative drain on the system. Thanks for clarifying.
As for our system of government, its a combination. Much of those laws in place are there by public opinion (or should I say vote, something more concrete) - but they are not allowed to override the individuals basic human rights. Otherwise, a king or emperor can take over and install whatever law he/she likes, regardless of the public will.
It's really tough to put a label on most anything these days. As for our government.... sometimes it works the way it is supposed to, sometimes it doesn't :(
As for Kstr's middle paragraph above, I would pose the question again. So if it is of no monetary benefit to Tyson........ then why are they doing it? Why are they turning down local help?
November 15, 2007 at 5:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ANativeEmporian (anonymous) says...
I'm still waiting to hear the reason that people should panic so much now which they're here by virtue of being immigrants to begin with. You have a tourism and business council who try to lure in new residents on a regular basis into Emporia, perhaps you should shut them down as well.
So now that you're here and comfy, you want to make sure nothing makes it uncomfortable?
I'm surprised how many people panic at the notion of running into someone who doesn't speak English. Do you really think it's because they're talking behind your back?
Plus to the white trash that was talking last night about taking emporian's jobs away. Well, maybe the reason that an immigrant got the job was that even in their unskilled state, they're still better of an employee than you would be. If you sufficiently suck, then they won't hire you, even if the Somalis weren't here.
How many illegal mexicans are in town? There's really little difference between them and the Somalis, there's just a more visible effort of their arrival.
So put it to your town council to cap immigration into the town as a whole. Not just the somalis, but for everyone. Think back to the 80s when the waves of Saudis were coming into town. Emporia survived that just fine, and many of them have become a part of the mainstream community.
If you've balls, put it up for a legislative act to forbid local businesses to hire a non-resident if an acceptable resident could have received it first.
And as a last note, the states with the highest immigration rates also have the highest per capita revenues in the country.
November 15, 2007 at 5:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
WILLIAM_A (anonymous) says...
Ok so they say they are working part time and going to college. And that is why they are on welfare. Well if that is the case why cant our sons, daughters, neices and nephew that attend ESU get welfare. They work part time and go to college. I have been told it is because they do not have children to support.. If that is true, I would like to know how many refugee childern are in Emporia. I see the refugees around town all the time and have yet to see one minor child with them.. Hmm ... Someone please let me know where I can tell the local college student where they can go to get this welfare. So maybe then they can only work 1 part time job instead of 3 or 4, and they will have more time for what they came to Emporia for.. A GOOD EDUCATION!!!
November 15, 2007 at 7:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
slipandslide (anonymous) says...
i agree with you william
November 15, 2007 at 7:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jigsawgirl22 (anonymous) says...
Dr. Catlett is an exceptionally qualified and intelligent man. I am a student at ESU and took Basic Economics with him. I'm glad for it, and those who attended the forum last night should be glad he was there to give everyone else a lesson on economics, too. But,sadly, and quite obviously, no one was listening.
November 15, 2007 at 7:54 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cheerup (anonymous) says...
William A White where did you learn how to spell. Shame on you for hiding behind Mr. Whites name.
November 15, 2007 at 8:51 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
WILLIAM_A (anonymous) says...
Sorry to admit it, but I was educated in the Emporia school system.
November 15, 2007 at 8:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
WILLIAM_A (anonymous) says...
USD 253 failed to teach me to spell, but thank god they forced me learn to speak spainsh. I could not survive or even get a job in Emporia without speaking spanish.
November 15, 2007 at 9:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Native Emporian, "And as a last note, the states with the highest immigration rates also have the highest per capita revenues in the country." And those states are?
November 15, 2007 at 10:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cyberspace (anonymous) says...
Steakbuffet, thanks for pointing out that the Somali immigrants are here legally. Immigration is a hot topic in our country. You read numerous blogs where people swear they have no problem with legal immigration, it is the illegal immigration they are against. Reading some of the blogs on this site, you have to wonder if people really mean what they say. I think the Somali immigrants are the victims of bad timing. Americans are fed up with illegal immigration and rightfully so.
Well, our government granted refuge to these people, they were more or less invited to come. If you don't agree with it, contact your legislators.
So actually, these people are very similar to many of our own ancestors who were allowed to immigrate to America.
Many of our own ancestors were not welcome when they first arrived either. The Mexicans (yes, some arrived legally), Irish, Italians, Germans to name a few.
Kstrebuchet, I agree, many of our fellow Americans are not worth hiring! Many would not be able to pass the drug test!We have dumbed down this country!
To all you Christians in the community, don't forget to follow the teachings of Jesus when dealing with this subject. Instructions to love one another and to welcome the stranger. I don't think He meant when you felt it was convenient.
November 15, 2007 at 10:06 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
NativeEmporian - I would like to take a stab at answering Kstr's question about your statement "And as a last note, the states with the highest immigration rates also have the highest per capita revenues in the country."
Well, it's somewhat open to how you are defining immigrants, since we are all immigrants, (which people keep reminding us on this board, like we somehow forget every couple of days or so) - are you talking about illegal immigrants, foreign-born people, largest % increase in foreign born population, total number of immigrants, or number of immigrants per 100 people/(per capita). Actually, according to the census bureau and center for immigration studies, it turns out it doesn't make all that much difference, as most of the states rank very nearly in the same order no matter how you look at it. I won't post links as I gleaned this from alot of different places, but anyone is welcome to look it up themselves.
California is nearly always #1, Texas is nearly always in the top 3, other states that are almost always in the top 10 are NY, Florida, Georgia, NJ, and Illinois in no particular order. But suffice it to say that you could generally say that these are the states with the highest immigration or immigration rates.
For per capita revenues, again, different ways to look at it - I'm assuming your saying state revenues per capita.
Alaska is usually #1, Wyoming is always near the top, other states consistently ranking in the top 7 are NY, Connecticut, Delaware, NJ, Vermont and Oregon. Perennial immigration heavyweights California is 13th, Texas is usually in the 40's.
So, when you throw out these sayings of yours, do you just pick them out of thin air, or do you double-check your facts against the National Enquirer first?
November 15, 2007 at 11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
open_eyes (anonymous) says...
Excuse me, that was create that asked which states NativeEmporian was referring to, not Kstr. My bad.
November 16, 2007 at 8:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Open_eyes, good comeback to NativeEmporian with fine research to boot. It was Alexander Pope who said, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing," but you know, I'm at the point of believing that these people like NativeEmporian just spew forth their "little knowledge" crap then make their accusations and run. I liked what you said about the National Enquirer.
November 16, 2007 at 9:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
seeya32 (anonymous) says...
thought this might lighten the mood when it comes to stats
Wisdom of Larry the cable guy.
1. A day without sunshine is like night.
2. On the other hand, you have different fingers.
3. 42.7 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot.
4. 99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name.
5. Remember, half the people you know are below average.
6. He who laughs last, thinks slowest.
7. Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm.
8. The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese in
the trap.
9. Support bacteria. They're the only culture some people have.
10. A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
11. Change is inevitable, except from vending machines.
12. If you think nobody cares, try missing a couple of payments.
13. How many of you believe in psycho-kinesis? Raise my hand.
14. OK, so what's the speed of dark?
15. When everything is coming your way, you're in the wrong lane.
16. Hard work pays off in the future. Laziness pays off now.
17. How much deeper would the ocean be without sponges?
18. Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
19. What happens if you get scared half to death, twice?
20. Why do psychics have to ask you for your name?
21. Inside every older person is a younger person wondering, "What the heck
happened?"
22. Just remember -- if the world didn't suck, we would all fall off.
23. Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright
until you hear them speak.
November 16, 2007 at 9:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Raff (anonymous) says...
Just FYI breakdown information on Federal Taxes found on
http://www.taxbreakdown.org
Department of Health and Human Services - 21.039%
Social Security Administration - 19.431%
Department of Defense--Military - 16.795%
Department of the Treasury - 14.829%
Other - 5.627%
Department of Agriculture - 3.139%
Supplemental - 3.076%
Department of Education - 2.755%
Department of Veterans Affairs - 2.309%
Department of Homeland Security - 2.189%
Office of Personnel Management - 2.081%
Department of Transportation - 2.009%
Department of Labor - 1.687%
Department of Housing and Urban Development - 1.535%
Other Defense Civil Programs - 1.498%
On H&R Block Website:
on H&R Block website:
http://www.hrblock.com/taxes/tax_tips...
For every federal tax dollar you spend:
$0.16 goes to national defense, veterans and foreign affairs;
$0.07 goes to Medicaid;
$0.11 goes to Medicare;
$0.14 goes to unemployment, disability and other income;
$0.23 goes to Social Security;
$0.12 goes to interest payments; and
$0.17 goes to other expenses.
Local, state and city tax dollars go to support: local government expenditures, mass transportation, construction of public buildings, social programs, tourism marketing, local roadway construction, maintenance and other items.
November 16, 2007 at 12:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
minorityinemporia (anonymous) says...
Thanks for the information, I am learning more on this Board than I learned in School!
November 16, 2007 at 12:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
cowtown (anonymous) says...
look at the new POLICY!!!!! Where that come from??
November 16, 2007 at 12:31 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Keeping you up to date how Emporia is in the national eye:
http://refugeeresettlementwatch.wordp...
November 16, 2007 at 1:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Raff (anonymous) says...
Not sure if anyone has posted this yet.
http://www.acf.dhhs.gov/programs/orr/
November 16, 2007 at 2:11 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Raff (anonymous) says...
http://www.wkscatholiccharities.org/c...
November 16, 2007 at 2:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
glarson (Gwen Larson) says...
Dear Readers,
For your convenience and to enable your comments to all stay together, we’ve set up a separate forum for refugee resettlement. Click http://www.emporiagazette.com/forums/...
Gwen Larson
Managing Editor
larson@emporiagazette.com
November 16, 2007 at 3:48 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )