Some wanted to save the city band or the taxi coupon program. Some wanted to try higher sales taxes. Most wanted their property taxes kept down as much as possible.
But everyone at the Sacred Heart parish hall could agree on one thing Thursday night: solving the budget problems of Emporia and Lyon County wouldn’t happen overnight.
“It’s not going to be easy,” County Commissioner Bob Davis said, speaking to about 60 people in the hall. “You’re not going to like it. We’re going to cut some services and you’re not going to like it. ... but we’ll do what we can do.”
Thursday night’s meeting was the longest and best-attended yet of the public sessions on the 2008 budget. For more than two hours, local residents and public officials traded comments, questions and possible solutions.
That last may be what local officials need most. The Emporia City Commission wants to raise property taxes by no more than four mills — but to get there, it’s looking at $2.5 million of cuts and deferred expenses from the proposed 2008 general fund plus a mixture of taxes and fees to keep a reserve on hand.
The Lyon County Commission, meanwhile, is facing requests for budget increases from all its departments and recently found it might have to remove $3.4 million in valuation from tax rolls because Westar has not yet filed a request for a tax exemption.
The thought of any increase in taxes dismayed several people.
“We do have a serious crisis on our hands,” audience member Fred Neuer said. “We do have a problem with taxes. They need to come down.”
Clyde Davidson noted that the mill levy and taxes per square foot of property were lower in Fort Collins, Colo., than in Emporia. Davis countered that without comparing the valuations of the two communities (Fort Collins — Money magazine’s “Best City to Live” in 2006 — has more property on its tax rolls) Davidson’s comparisons didn’t mean anything.
Davidson also suggested that a taxpayer action group of community volunteers — no less than seven, no more than 56 — could be formed to help city officials study the budget and make recommendations in the future. The Emporia school district follows a similar, though not identical, process in using a mix of community members and district employees to make suggestions on the budget.
“A final question: Why not try to reduce taxes instead of trying to reduce tax increases?” Davidson asked. “Do we need a mindset change?”
Other suggestions came forward. Buy more fuel-efficient vehicles and make sure employees don’t leave their cars running. Push the city limits north and bring in more valuation. Sell the city’s water, which has repeatedly won national taste tests.
City Manager Matt Zimmerman said water sales had been discussed, but the marketing and distributing of it on a large scale seemed to be outside the scope of what the city could do. An audience member immediately suggested selling the water at events in White Auditorium.
Sales tax was an especially popular solution.
“I think a sales tax is more fair,” Nina West said. “Everyone pays it, including all those visitors who pull off the turnpike and stop here. ... It’s a way to give relief to property owners and let everyone pay their share.”
Zimmerman said a sales tax was being studied, but because it would need to go before voters, the soonest a new sales tax could be collected would be 2009.
“Sales tax is not going to help the budget for ‘08,” Zimmerman said.
Some audience members were out to save specific programs in the city budget. Early on, several stood up for the Emporia Municipal Band, which stands to lose its $15,000 in city funding under the current proposal.
“If we care about the culture of Emporia, let’s not try to eliminate this,” Vicky Holland told the commissioners. “Economizing doesn’t mean eliminating. I would hate to see what we have cut out, but let’s cut back. The band could get by with maybe $10,000, pull back a little.”
Zimmerman said that reducing funding for programs rather than eliminating it was an option in preparing budgets — but often one that didn’t provide a lasting solution.
“A lot of times, (the funding) goes right back to where it was within a year or two,” he said. “So sometimes you have to consider whether it’s better not to provide a service at all rather than three half-services, because it never stays that way.”
Others stood up for the taxi coupon program, which allows reduced-rate rides for the elderly, handicapped and disadvantaged. Audience member Myrna Stephens said her mother, who has Alzheimer’s, frequently uses the taxis so she can help out at an Emporia day care center.
“She needs supervision,” Stephens said. “She can’t ride L-CAT (the county bus service). She’s only one person, but it certainly affects her quality of life.”
An unidentified audience member, meanwhile, said that while the cuts were unfortunate, the city couldn’t keep being all things to all people.
“Life’s hard,” she said. “I cut places, too.”
In particular, she noted that if there’s enough public support for the band, the money will come.
“If the community wants something, like the Little Train down at Soden’s, they’ll cough up money left and right,” she said.
More than one audience member gave the commissioners and staff credit for facing up to the problem. Even if they cut some of the wrong things, one audience member noted, at least they’re willing to cut and moving in the right direction.
“Mr. Zimmerman, every time I’ve heard from you, it’s always ‘us in Emporia, we in Emporia,’” Gary Andrews told the new city manager. “You’ve never once said ‘This is not my problem, it was here when I came here.’ You’ve taken it on.”
Andrews absolutely did not want a tax increase, but said he was willing to tolerate some cuts and hikes if they were part of a long-term plan to break the cycle.
“Let’s not cross the same damn bridge again and again,” Andrews said.
mythoughts (anonymous) says...
"Use it up, make it last, wear it out."
July 27, 2007 at 8:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bandlover (anonymous) says...
It would be a shame to cut the funding for the band, especially if a mil levy was voted for its funding. Is it legal to cut out the band budget? Perhaps a vote would be needed before this grand old tradition is axed out of existance. Emporia has always been proud of its contribution to the arts. It is part of the fiber that holds our society together. In these days of rising costs, more people look for activities within the community. What better way to spend a summer evening than listening to the band. It brings musicians together and creates family bonds and memories. Many adults remember participating in the Children's March, a tradition which should continue for our children and grandchildren.
July 27, 2007 at 8:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
spectator (anonymous) says...
People want to cut services - someone made comment on KVOE that yearly employee raises need to be cut. There are no raises to cut. Someone else wanted traffic laws enforced. Good idea but you have to have, and pay, police officers to do that and you don't have enough of them. Yes, you will see them parked "all over the place not doing anything" but they are doing a LOT of reports on (OLD & UNRELIABLE) in-car computers and, for safety's sake, I'd prefer they not try to type reports and drive around enforcing traffic laws at the same time. Reports document things for court and the insurance companies. Which do you want the officers to do?Someone else wanted firefighters/EMT-Paramedics/police officers to pay for their own training. Pay THEM enough so they can afford it and they can. And that type of GOOD training is NOT cheap. Do you REALLY want these people to have bargain-basement-rate training? I don't know specifics for firefighters & EMT/Paramedics but all law enforcement officers are MANDATED by Kansas State law to have a minimum of 40 hours of training per year - some training items are required, e.g. CPR for one. That helps YOU, the citizen. Officers also have firearms training - $16.00 per box of ammo for handguns. Do you NOT want them to have this training which benefits YOU? Why not simply take the firearms away? We had a situation recently where a man attempted to shoot 2 EPD officers. They were armed. Do you suppose the "alleged" bad guy would have any hesitation to shoot an UNARMED individual who might have gotten in his way? Another comment was "Everyone else has to pay for their own training so they can too." Their training is essential to all of us and even though they can - and do - get some training via computer, they need hands-on training to protect us. They need to protect themselves first before they can take care of our problems. Does "Everyone else" really go to work with the thought that he or she might not go home at the end of the work day? I don't like high taxes either but you need to know this - cutting or even keeping the status quo with public safety as it is at present, is a dangerous gamble.
July 27, 2007 at 8:32 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
emporian (anonymous) says...
There will be a mass exodus out of the public safety departments in the City of Emporia in the near future. The FD has a revolving door. Many places get 50-100 applications for one open firefighter spot in any other city. Emporia gets 4 applicants. That should tell you something isnt right. PD cant keep officers. Why stay here when you can go to Lawrence and double your salary. We lose so much money because we train people then dont pay them enough to keep them around. Dont get me wrong, I love my job, but love of the job doesnt feed a family in this county.
July 27, 2007 at 8:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
spectator (anonymous) says...
Mythoughts, city workers have been doing that for YEARS !(Use it up, make it last, wear it out.)
July 27, 2007 at 10:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
ksfarmer (anonymous) says...
I always heard it as "Use it up ,wear it out, make it do or do without".
July 27, 2007 at 10:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
emporian (anonymous) says...
We have been doing that. Look at the rescue tools. We were using ones that barely worked. We had to keep them in a pan to catch the hydraulic oil and keep a couple extra gallons of hydraulic fluid handy because if it took us more than 10 minutes get them out then the tools ran out of fluid. We have had no thermal imaging camera which saves many dollars in homeowner money, and saves lives in a smoke filled environment. We have to call volunteer departments to get one. Many times we had ambulances that when you left the station you were unsure if you were gonna make it. Several broke down on the way to Topeka.
July 27, 2007 at 11:43 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
offc_grl76 (anonymous) says...
Everyone says take away the raises for the city employees. How would you feel if your raise was taken away???? They have families to support as well. If we raise taxes and then not give raises to the employees, they are going to move elsewhere because they can't afford to live here on the salary they are making now.
July 27, 2007 at 11:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
spectator (anonymous) says...
KSfarmer, God forbid you were injured and trapped inside a damaged, or worse, damaged and burning vehicle but would you prefer the Rescue people safely(for you AND them) and reliably remove the vehicle from around you or drag your injured and hurting body out though the largest opening they could find? Maybe you'd prefer one or two of them chop at the wreck with that old fireman's axe?
The public simply does not know how hard the city employees have been struggling to "Use it up ,wear it out, make it do or do without" for years.
July 27, 2007 at 12:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
PPP (anonymous) says...
Budget cut's hurt all of us indirectly and directly. Just cutting certain programs or reducing specific programs is a band aid. If we don't have the money then keep the process simple and make the reductions affect all areas of the city budget. This forces creative thinking internally and externally for solutions.
1. Identify critical safety-oriented departments and reduce budgets by 5-10% and freeze new program spending. No one is 100% efficient and I bet we can live another year without that must have project.
2. Reduce the remaining department budgets at a higher percentage across the board until revenues improve
3. Freeze non-safety/emergency services hirings when positions are vacated for the remainder of the fiscal year. It's miserable but it is survivable. No new positions created for at least 12 months.
4. Freeze all classified salary increases beyond longevity Exempt employees freeze salaries for at least one year until revenues increase.
If our citizens are unwilling to fund the current status quo then the city comissioners and manager have no choice but to make across the board cuts. Nothing should be off-limits except public safety. I hope the commissioners have the stomach to make these tough decisions since our society, myself included, wants it all-- low taxes and high cost services on demand right now... We may have suffer some inconveniences in the short term for better long-term results.
Or we can just raise taxes then we all get what we want.
1. Increase sales tax
2. Local taxes on specific products
3. Increase destination fees and taxes
4. Increase licensing costs
5. Create licensing fees for services provided.
a. Pet-ownership licenses and fees that cover the cost of animal control
b. Licensing fees that cover cost of enforceable inspections on community standards and codes
c. Increase property taxes to pay for road and bridge costs
d. Increase sales taxes in general to cover services for fire and police
July 27, 2007 at 12:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jackslap (anonymous) says...
Save the Fair Grounds..... Vote for Percy Wayman
July 27, 2007 at 3:42 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
admireed (anonymous) says...
Government will be so much better now because the public is taking an active interest in their city and county
July 27, 2007 at 6:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Doug (anonymous) says...
Why can't the band have their own fundraisers? I know of several garage bands in town that don't rely on the city to provide funds. They buy their instruments and play for the love of it.
July 27, 2007 at 6:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandyestabrook (anonymous) says...
If you just look around town and notice all the homes with for sale signs it has to get your attention that something isn't right here. Emporia is already on the edge is seems to me. I'm for increasing the sales tax as that does seem the most fair solution. I've heard that many of the homes are older people who can no longer afford the property taxes and increased homeowners insurance and general up keep that a home requires. That may or may not be so. The sales tax increase seems fair to me and would give the home owner some relief. Here is an idea and someone who knows if it is even a possibility please reply. Have a check off box on the city utility bill asking for permission to add $1 to your bill each month for the band, taxi coupons and fireworks. I haven't done any of the math to even know how much that would bring in monthly but surely a $1 a mo. is something nearly every household could afford. I know other check offs have been done by the State before to fund different things. $12.00/yr per household that pays for city utilities is a whole lot better than cutting all the services. How many city utility bills are there sent out each month? Wanting an answer. Some of the road repair might have to wait and we would have to drive around pot holes.
July 29, 2007 at 7:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
sandyestabrook (anonymous) says...
The city can not afford to cut back on manpower and equipment of departments that provide safety to it's citizens or that will be a huge liability. It has already been addressed as to the low salaries being paid and difficulty in getting quality people to stay here once employed. Only if you have been in a situation where the ambulance breaks down or the police can't get there in time can you realize how that makes a person feel. It doesn't feel good! So no matter if the other things have to be cut back or terminated, safety issues need to be resolved for all of us. I for one believe that the city should pay for their training and have control over the quality of training they receive. No matter how well anyone is trained if they don't have the proper equipment to use, you're up a creek without a paddle so to speak.
July 29, 2007 at 7:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
netloafer (anonymous) says...
I agree that we must find some fair way to solve this problem, but it is going to be extremely difficult to do. At first blush a sales tax increase seems fair, but there are a couple of problems with it. First, there aren't enough sales being generated to derive the necessary revenue. Second, a tax will further inhibit sales and possibly drive them down. Third, smaller businesses will be hit harder by any sales increase than larger ones like Wal-Mart.
I think the idea of a check off box for things like taxi coupons, etc is a good one.
I also think the city needs to find ways to have some of the slum lords pay for what they're doing to the city. Their valuations should be based on some sort of minimum valuation that would be more in keeping with the values their places should be. As thing stand now, they do little in the way of upkeep, pay minimum taxes because their valuations are so low, and then profit at the expense of the working poor..
Another way to find funds for capital expense like sewer, etc is to change the rate structure so that excessive users like Tyson, Menu, etc pay a fairer rate on their water bills. The current rate structure gives them significant breaks on rates once they get past the early threshold. They use millions of gallons a month and get a really big break on rates.
Combining some of the city and county administrative functions would be another way to save fixed costs. There are a lot of cases where someone at the city has a full time job but only part time work and vice versa. Combining functions would increase efficiency and productivity and reduce costs. That would mean some reductions in force, but these are difficult times.
July 29, 2007 at 9:38 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dhcc66 (anonymous) says...
as for combining the city and county forces.....which ones do you mean??? fire/ems are already combined and the county almost always refuses to pay their fair share. law enforcement will cost millions to combine on startup cost alone. road and bridge....how and why? the county has a hard enough time fixing their own things on the low budget the county commission has them on. the city is missing manpower and money. how would combining that fix things????
thing people. for now...and just for now, raising taxes and some fees may be the only way to fix the mess COMMONS got us into. oh, and i forgot the commissioners. the benefit from most everything they vote on. how about a term limit and.....when somebody who is on the city commission owns a business that would benefit from the purchase the city is about to make ie. longbine or agler and vehicle purchases, why don't we look outside of the community at LOWER COST VEHICLES. work trucks and patrol cars are thousands less in newton, salina, manhattan, and kansas city if we just opened the bid process to the outside world. kind of like our gas prices being higher than anybody else in kansas....makes you wonder...
July 30, 2007 at 10:57 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
netloafer (anonymous) says...
dhcc66
I was writing about administrative services at the city/county offices. As I said, any time I go to either the county or city offices I see lots of administrative support people who are under-utliized, getting a full time pay check for what is in essence part time work. I wasn't really giving thought to capital projects, rather to fixed costs like wages and benefits.
Unfortunately, right now Kansas ethics statues do not consider owning a business that might benefit from city, county purchases,etc as illegal. I tend to think that they do create conflicts of interest, but the state statutes and guidelines deem it all okay. In that regard Kansas is light years behind almost every other state in the Union.
July 30, 2007 at 11:06 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
dhcc66 (anonymous) says...
i haven't seen any office staff doing "part time" work. of all the times i've been in city/county offices i've usually experienced a wait of normal standards for the next clerk or office staff memeber to become available. unless you work on an assembly line, you are going to have minutes here and minutes there that are simply time in between tasks....kind of like fire and police who aren't constantly going from one arrest/fire to the other..thank god.
and, there tend to be peak times and lag times. you can't 'understaff' an office simply because some of the time some of the staff isn't needed.
July 30, 2007 at 1:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Heartland_Rescuer (anonymous) says...
Ditto on what netloafer has to say. I also think desperate times call for desperate measures. Think about city amenities that are considered "for pleasure" and city amenities that provide actual "public health and safety, or economic growth opportunities". CUT THE FLUFF, combine jobs/double up just like private industry does during hard times, and look for long-term solutions not temporary band-aid plans. If there are no internal experts for each area of city planning, consult external experts to discover the best courses of action to save a city dying on the vine. Wake up Emporia - you are quickly becoming a ghost town.
August 5, 2007 at 3:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )