Posted by rox_alan (anonymous) on December 6, 2007 at 3:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree Fran....but I put the blame on Tyson for bringing them here.... I'm afraid to buy meat with the Tyson name on it cause of the fact that it may have bacteria from them not having proper hygiene. I will go to the meat lockers if need to or to other farmers who raise them cause of Tyson. It's a shame that they brought these people here and the stories we hear around town and then thinking what happened in Nebraska with the plant shutting down could very well happen here too... And then where will Emporia be?

Posted by slipandslide (anonymous) on December 6, 2007 at 3:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

i agree the meat lockers are a good place to buy meat, cheaper and its handled by fewer people then the meat that comes from the big meat packing plants,also, i guessing the money that i spend there is kept in kansas and i would rather support kansas farmers than support major corporations

Posted by johnsie (anonymous) on December 6, 2007 at 4:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I stopped buying anything with the TYSON name several years ago. It might take a period of adjustment, but I would very much like to see TYSON leave Emporia. All their advertised do-good stuff doesn't begin to make up for the problems that have been presented to Emporians. And it won't stop with the Somalians.

Posted by johnsie (anonymous) on December 6, 2007 at 4:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The CHRISTMAS Program - only one way to handle this. Never cast another vote for those school board members who chose not to represent the people who put them in office. Put their names on the frig door - and NEVER vote for them again - for anything. They are self-serving wannabes!

Posted by hottopics (anonymous) on December 6, 2007 at 8:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

My reply to all of the above........I AGREE!!! I AGREE!!! I dont blame you at all and I AGREE some more.

I wont be attending the Christmas program either. It isnt even close to a friggin Seasonal Celebration.

As for voting......Im right with you. I feel I am amongst self serving hypocrits that call themselves elected officials. I, too, am anxious to see what happens in the next election. Its time for a Real and True change.

Posted by cheerup (anonymous) on December 6, 2007 at 8:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Don't forget that God made all of us- white, black,brown or what ever color. Remember this is Christmas and God loves us ALL.

Posted by callie (anonymous) on December 6, 2007 at 10:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You people should be ashamed of yourselves. You just prove to me what I have thought about Emporia for many years. Emporia is old-fashioned and racist. Everyone deserves and equal opportunity in life, not everyone has grown up spoiled and hand fed like us here in the United Stated, but very few of us seem to see it that way. We are just selfish and look at it as people trying to take what is ours and not trying to spread the wealth. This is an opportunity to expose ourselves to different cultures and races, we should be using this as a learning expirence.

Posted by UsayULoveGod (anonymous) on December 6, 2007 at 10:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sad but true , These people are just running in fear of being Killed ! They come here to be safe from harm , hoping and praying to be met with open arms and love and kindness. Instead they get arms folded and lips sticking out with a nasty hateful attitude . Please remember ,God is always watching.

Posted by netebarr (anonymous) on December 6, 2007 at 11:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

why are we supporting everyone but our own children. why should they get a better "free" education than our own families. why should we have to work 2 jobs and depend on the help from our extended family to send our kids to college. this is Ridiculous , send ALL the illegals and Refuges back where they belong. I'm tired of feeling like a refuge in my own country. hateful or not, get these scavengers out of our country.

Posted by hogan77 (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 7:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

In response to callie- I don't think these posters should be ashamed of themselves. I see them speaking out of anger, out of fear, out of concern. They may sound selfish, wanting the Somalis to move on to other places. They may sound selfish, wanting the Christian holiday of Christmas to remain as it is, programs and all. But through my eyes, I do not see racism, I do not see selfishness. I see good old fashioned fear; they are scared that the quality of life they have the right to have is being taken from them, that no one else cares. And for the most part, they are right. Tyson doesn't care about the little person. The government doesn't care about us either. The only thing that has any priority in the eyes of the big man is money and power, plain and simple. And because of the big man's greed, the little man is losing everything he stands for.

Yes, we are a wonderful country. It is understood that the Somalis are running in fear. They need a safe haven, a place where they do not have to worry about losing their lives. America is a great place for that. But we have very little information about this group. We see the Somalis bringing with them health issues, crime, disrespect to the way America is run, disrespect to us as humans. We see them taking away money that we have worked so hard to earn, taking over our workplaces, our schools, our streets; and replacing our way of life with theirs.

We should invite them to stay in our country where it is safe. We should have open arms and say "We know your life has been hard. Let us help you improve your life, let us keep you safe." There is a point however, when accommodations become ridiculous. If we allow them to have their time for church, we should also allow the rest of us to have that as well. If we are allowing a break time to accommodate that, then we should do the same for everyone else. On the issue of the Christmas Program, if we allow everyone else to celebrate their holidays, the Christians should be allowed to celebrate theirs as well. It is well known that each one of our Presidents has been Christian in some form. The government has recognized Christmas as a federal holiday, an American holiday. So why is it we can't celebrate it in it's full form? How stupid is it really? "Yes you can celebrate Christmas, we recognize it as our holiday, but you can't call it that anymore."

Diversity is a good thing. It provides us with the chance to learn about other cultures, other ways of life than we are used to. But, at what cost? Should we lose everything we work so hard for, just in order to have them live beside us so we can learn about them? If our government would educate us about them, and them about us, perhaps it would not be such a bad thing. Instead though, they are just being shoved in our faces, and are being told to adapt without any knowledge of how to do it. And until we have the knowledge of them and their lifestyles, we will continue to live in fear.

Posted by DJrocksthemic (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 8:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Hmmmm, maybe it's because I'm young, but I've never had a problem with living on the East Side of town. And I shop at the stores on the east side, in fact Presto has the best drink station of any gas station in town. In fact the other day I dropped $20 bucks and someone picked it up and returned it to me. You make it same like $20 would have been gone. And if you're against the seasonal celebration, that would make you FOR the great commission in my opinion. I'm sick of people who want to fight for Christian's rights "i.e. Christmas v. Seasonal" and then turn their back on people, and loving those people no matter what race, creed or economic standing. It give Christians a black eye and gives coal to the fire of those against "Christmas Celebrations."

Posted by fantasywriter (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 11:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

One of the greatest things about this country has been separation of Church and State. However, when one religious group's ideals start becoming state policy, that separation is broken down allowing religion in general to begin controlling government. I am sure that is fine for Christians WHILE that religion happens to be Christianity, but what about when the fastest growing religion in the world, Islam, is the leading religion? If religion is allowed to decide policy, ANY policy, then someday some OTHER religion can decide policy. The point is, allowing one religion, even Christianity to order government, sets precedence for allowing ANY religion to control government. Even a little thing, like naming a celebration managed by the city a Christian name, sanctions religiously controlled government. I have never understood why Christians could forget the past that brought America's founding fathers to the conclusion religious freedom could only be guaranteed by complete separation of Church and State. Of course, if Christians allow themselves to be duped by power hungry politicians, who use the guise of Christianity to further their own ends, then perhaps they will only have themselves to blame when some other religions controls their government, and they are TRULY the refugees as Emporia's Muslims are now.

Posted by create (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 11:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The real issue here is not the Somali people themselves. Instead it is Tyson, and the Catholic Charities of Kansas City for acting as an employment service for Tyson. In fact, it was unfair of Tyson to foist such a large number of individuals, no matter who they are, onto a small community like Emporia. Now we must support them through public services.

Tyson is currently on trial in Tennessee for hiring undocumented immigrants in order to depress wages in general. Therefore, to keep the heat off, Tyson will now hire legal immigrants in the form of refugees. They say they are paying the refugees a regular wage and that the refugees pay taxes, but how does that work? The public services they use as opposed to the taxes they pay don't balance out. They use more in services than they pay out in taxes.

I urge everyone to look more deeply into this issue. A good place to start is the following website. On the left side, there is even a place where Emporia is featured. That's how far we have gone with this issue. Please go to
http://refugeeresettlementwatch.wordpres...

Another good place is http://www.vdare.com

A very good piece to read that puts the blame where it belongs is this one:

http://www.city-journal.org/printable.ph...

Folks complaining about this issue have a right to complain and should not allow themselves to be picked on from those who play the race card. This issue is far too important because of how it can affect our community's public services. We all support those services and have a right to complain. Lewiston, Maine, after all, went bankrupt in this same situation. Do keep a close eye on this and be informed in order to fight the good fight.

Posted by eldiablo (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 12:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Three words:

Get Over It.

If you don't want to work at Tyson, go to college, or get a different job. If you don't want to eat Tyson food, don't. If you don't want to live in Emporia, move. If you don't want to attend the Seasonal Celebration because it's not called the 'Christmas Program' you're a moron.

Posted by LilJHawkFan (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 1:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I AGREE ELDIABLO! THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENTS!

I hope none of you who have commented against the Somolians call yourself Christians.

Posted by Spenser (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 4:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I stopped buying Tyson brand meat after I found out they were employing Emporians. I'm afraid to buy meat with the Tyson name on it because of the fact that it may have bacteria from them not having proper hygiene.

Posted by MrCmonkeeDo (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 5:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

create said,

"Lewiston, Maine, after all, went bankrupt in this same situation."

Could someone please shed some light on this statement? Try as he might, MrC cannot find that info anywhere. Please don't say it's just another rumor.

GrammaMonkeeDo used to say, "a rumor is a lie, with a bow tie."

Man that chick was crazy.

Posted by hogan77 (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 5:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

First of all, I went to college. Second of all, I DID move. Third, I take offense to you calling us morons because we stand up for our beliefs, as we have a RIGHT to do so. We are morons because we know we have freedom of religion, because we have a right to celebrate our holiday as we see fit? You are the moron for thinking we would just shut up and sit idly by, while big politicians take away our traditions. And as far as purchasing Tyson Beef, I just don't do it. I can get better quality meat, with less handling, from people I know personally, here in my own community. I even know the cow it came from!

Posted by MrCmonkeeDo (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 5:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This is a poem MrC composed aHereWhileBack. It's called:

"Cheer Up The Guy Who Knows The Cows"
(an' it goes somethin' like this.)

This is my cow,
The Lone Ranger;
She only answers to Silver.

WhattaYa think; too long?

Posted by hogan77 (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 5:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Actually, her name was Belle, you need to revise MrC.

Posted by create (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 5:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Lewiston, Maine information:

http://www.vdare.com/francis/maine.htm

Posted by create (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 6:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Amen, Hogan77 for your defense of those of us who believe in fighting for what we believe in. I'm glad those who prefer to stand down weren't around in the days of the American Revolution.

Posted by MrCmonkeeDo (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 6:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Durned Critics!

Thanks create. Checkin' the link out now.

Posted by MrCmonkeeDo (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 6:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

MrC is afraid His simpletonness is showin' again, but still He sees no reference to Lewiston, Maine ever going Bankrupt.

Got anymore?

Posted by create (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 8:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yeah, here's an NPR story you can listen to. No, it still doesn't prove the bankruptcy claim, but still interesting story anyway, and you can listen to it.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story...

Posted by MelissaE (anonymous) on December 7, 2007 at 9:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LOL at the Lewiston, Maine comments re: Bankruptcy. It's not true. Lewiston is alive & well & not bankrupt.

Oh--I should also tell all the "Christians" here that Maine is the same state that opted to PROVIDE birth control to students at one of its middle schools.

And Maine KICKED OUT all the students at USM who did not bother getting their mumps shots......

So, if you are "pro-life" (is there such a thing?), you should probably stop using Maine as an example to villify Somalis. After all, they give 11 and 12 y.o.'s birth control.

Emporia really shouldn't compare itself to any town/city in Maine. As Maine is very liberal (generally) and we all know that Kansas has a hard time turning the reigns over to its citizens.

M

Posted by Bjnemp (anonymous) on December 8, 2007 at 10:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't get it. Why is anyone in Emporia who expresses concern for nation and community labeled a racist, bigot, idiot, or Christian radical? I moved to Emporia from Manhattan, KS 12 years ago. My neighbors there were from Ethopia, Germany, Britain, and many other nations. All were college educated, earned high incomes, owned beautiful homes, dressed as Americans, spoke perfect English, obeyed all laws, paid taxes, contributed to our community, and paid allegiance to one flag---the Stars and Stripes. They missed their native countries and customs, but they were Americans now and assimilated into our culture. Therein lies the problem I see in Emporia. The immigrants here, legal and illegal, have no interest in assimilating into our society or adopting our customs or language. Instead, they isolate and divide themselves by dressing differently, acting differently, speaking differently, and then act offended when we treat them differently! And if you want to be accepted in another country, don't fly your former nation's flag in the face of your new neighbors. I am not a racist, not a bigot, and not much of a Christian, but I am not overly tolerant of any peoples who move among us and take advantage of all America has to offer and then disrespect us by refusing to recognize our culture and heritage. Reaching out is a two-way street and I don't see many extended arms from the Somali or Latin communities in Emporia. If you want to be part of my community, be part of my community.

Posted by Spenser (anonymous) on December 8, 2007 at 11:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Bjnemp, "paid allegiance to one flag"? Wasn't the confederate flag a-flyin' just recently in a parade? I guess they should pay allegiance to two flags, but not three? Flags have a historical context too.

Posted by eldiablo (anonymous) on December 8, 2007 at 11:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Hypocrits.

It's a FREE country. No one should HAVE to assimilate. Stand back and look at what you are saying.

OPEN YOUR EYES

Posted by Bjnemp (anonymous) on December 8, 2007 at 11:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Spenser: I have no idea what you are attempting to say. I was clearly referring to immigrants in Manhattan, where no Confederate flag was ever allowed to fly during a parade. What are you talking about?

Posted by sciguy (anonymous) on December 8, 2007 at 11:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Hobby Lobby and Chic-Fil-A both accommodate Christians with their work schedules, probably because they're private businesses and can do what they wish.

If a business employs a large number of Muslims, why wouldn't they adapt to the needs of their workers?

The bigotry and racism in Emporia is really disheartening to see. Without the immigrants from the last thirty or forty years, the city would already be a ghost town.

Posted by tmac (anonymous) on December 8, 2007 at 1:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Weren't our ancestors all immigrants to America at one time or another? I wonder if they got the same reception we "natives" are dishing out today?

Posted by open_eyes (anonymous) on December 8, 2007 at 3:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow, now there's an original thought, tmac. Congrats, you're the first person in 1500+ posts that has thought of that.
Good point, though. While you're busy comparing the receptions, why don't you compare the handouts and breaks our ancestors got as well? And also see how all our ancestors refused to assimilate........

Posted by create (anonymous) on December 8, 2007 at 4:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Good comment, Tmac. As far as receptions, there were signs in many places of employment that said, "No Irish Need Apply." Places like "Little Italy," "Little Poland," "Chinatown," and others are still part of city scenes today, originally the result of members of minority groups living together because of social or economic discrimination. Hmmmmm, it occurs to me that you were being facetious.

Posted by tmac (anonymous) on December 8, 2007 at 5:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Facetious...I don't know what you are talking about, he said slyly.

I know our ancestors suffered horribly at the hands of others after coming to America to seek a better life. My grandparents (Irish and Cherokee) tell stories of how their parents suffered terrible hardships.
The problem is our ancestors are not here to remind us how hard their life was; how hard it was to leave their homeland and come to a strange world in hopes of something better. Rather than show distrust and resentment toward the Somalis, or any other immigrants, why not embrace them, thank them for cultural diversity they bring to our community and help them find the better life they seek. I'll bet we will all be better people for it.

Besides, isn't that what Jesus would do?

Posted by momus (anonymous) on December 8, 2007 at 10:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

My problem isn't so much with the immigrants themselves, but the reasons they were brought here. Using alleged illegal immigrants and refugees to inflate the supply of low skilled labor to enhance corporate profit margins and maintain a current wage structure is ethically repugnant. Corporations should adhere to the same laws of supply and demand we all do without the ability to circumvent said laws in order to avoid making a job more attractive to a preexisting labor force.

That being said, we should remember that there are a lot of immigrants that come to America every year because they want to be Americans first. They realize that being an American affords them various opportunities and luxuries not available in most of the world. However, those opportunities come at a cost that most immigrants are willing to pay by at least marginally culturally assimilating. We have a cap on professionals from other nations trying to become U.S. citizens (doctors, engineers, scientists, etc.) that has resulted in a five year wait time, yet we are willing to let MNC's allegedly ignore or at least misuse current immigration policy for profit? Do you think Jesus would advocate that?

Posted by tmac (anonymous) on December 8, 2007 at 11:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Momus: I am relieved to hear your issue is not with the immigrants themselves. However, it is an issue with others, as indicated by the letter posted at the beginning of this forum and the comments of others here and elsewhere.

For what it is worth, I don't expect anyone who comes to America to become "American" anymore than I would expect to become "German" just because I moved to Germany.

I understand the ethics issues you raise (however, I am a little vague on the "laws" of supply and demand). IF business is unethically taking advantage of immigrant labor, what is our recourse? And what happens to the community if the company that cannot maintain a profit and, through a managed wage structure, lays off its workers or, even worse, shutters the plant?

You raise some very good points. I wish I knew the answers.

Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on December 9, 2007 at 7:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

tmac

I don't think the process of assimilation means that immigrants need to leave their cultures behind. What it does mean is that they need to understand the American playbook, that along with rights, we all have responsibilities.

The current policy is heavy on the side of letting immigrants know what benefits they receive. Little or nothing is said to them about the responsibilities that living in America entail. The process is going to lead them to a state of perpetual dependence and leave them at the mercy of employers like Tyson.

That's not the American way.

There answers as I see it are (1) change the policy so that it is more humane and sensitive to the needs not only of the immigrants but also the communities they are bent sent to. (2) Stop making the process top-down (3) Eliminate the middle men (Tyson, Catholic Charities). They aren't the noble oorganizations they pretend to me. They're all about profiting at the expense of immigrants or growing organizations.

Posted by create (anonymous) on December 9, 2007 at 8:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Manyof us have been saying these same words over and over again about the real reasons why we take issue with bringing refugees to this country in such large numbers. And Momus is right, it is to the exclusion of others like doctors, engineers and other skilled professionals who could greatly benefit our country, especially with the low math scores we seem to produce. But besides just a few people on the forum, I wonder who listens to these real reasons that involve those greedy corporations and agencies that Netloafer just mentioned? Some of us have done genuine research, but some still refuse to believe.

I am surprised to see this comment: "The problem is our ancestors are not here to remind us how hard their life was;..." Then why don't we just throw away all our history books since those who lived before us don't seem to have any clout if they can't speak for themselves? Let's banish all the historians. And for goodness sakes, don't anybody read.

I have said from the beginning that this is all beginning to sound like an Orwell book.

The real problem is with people who refuse to believe what is happening. There is so much more going on than meets the eye if people care to look past the surface. But that takes effort. In the other thread, some posters are making fun of the people who are researching the issues involved. Too bad. It must be much easier to peep about the ground pecking a few seeds of grain that the big roosters let fall.

Posted by alfalfa (anonymous) on December 9, 2007 at 10:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I think what is seen with regard to the situation with the Somalis is not as much racism as it is a fear that we are going to lose our way of life. I am a Christian, don't go to church much but I believe in God. If I wanted to live in a Muslim country I would have moved to one. I was raised in a Conservative family, love my country, and I am open minded to a point. I would not move to an Islamic nation and expect them to change their laws for me, and they wouldn't even if I did. The seperation of Church and state was drafted, I believe, to keep us from being forced to worship or forced into any one Christian denomination. I don't believe the founders, who were all Christian I believe, intended it to mean this nation would turn its back on God.

It is fine with me if people in our area want to practice another faith or no faith at all. But that doesn't change the fact that this is still a Christian nation and certainly our area is Christian. I am tired of having my beliefs pushed into the closet because they might offend someone. Am I closed minded?? Maybe so. But I love the way of life we HAVE had in the Lyon county area and I am not eager to give it up. If that makes me a racist, I guess I must carry that label, but what I am is a proud American who wants America to remain a Christian nation.

Posted by momus (anonymous) on December 9, 2007 at 11:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

TMAC,

I'm glad you asked for clarification. First in regards to my supply and demand comment: there is a certain supply of unskilled labor in most market models. Businesses that require unskilled labor place a demand on that supply. If demand outpaces supply, normal economic models would suggest that a business must take steps to make their business more attractive to potential employees to encourage a full compliment of their labor requirements. Using a population that is allegedly here illegally or using refugees for labor circumvents the "supply" creating an artificially low strain on "demand". Thus, the status quo is enforced with an artificial capacity within the microeconomic model.

Secondly, in regards to culture: I guess we are going to have to define what culture means. I don't consider culture to mean language. Our Spanish speaking brethren have been speaking Spanish for about 400 years, before that it was a variety of native tongues. I am part Native American. I don't consider speaking Cherokee part of my "culture". I also have German in my family tree. While my German ancestors brought with them great food, holidays and a variety of customs, they adopted the prevalent local language. I don't have a problem with other religions (I have known some very kind and thoughtful Muslims). But, we have to have some requirements for cultural assimilation to produce a functional nation. Effective communication creates a situation that allows individuals to move between jobs and prevents individuals from being condemned to a life of menial labor. Equal rights and societal standing for all people regardless of race, religion or gender is also fundamental to our democracy. I think that we as a nation have done a poor job in communicating our expectations to people wanting to immigrate to the U.S. If anything positive can be taken from this debate, it is that we are forming the initial stages of recording an communicating those basic expectations that allow for an easier integration into pre-existing populations AND allow for the more immediate success of individuals wanting to call the United States home.

Posted by slipandslide (anonymous) on December 9, 2007 at 11:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

http://www.timesfreepress.com/absolutenm......

Posted by Spenser (anonymous) on December 10, 2007 at 11:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Bjnemp,
I was alluding to this article.

http://www.emporiagazette.com/news/2007/...

Sorry, meant to post it.