Absolute (anonymous) says...

I am thankful that in the US we have seperation of church and state.

Children in our school district can not be mandated to be apart of a religious function.

Imagine the uproar if we had a mandatory Ramadan Program.

December 3, 2007 at 3:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

smith_ron (anonymous) says...

Oh Lord, Here we go again. By the way, my neighbor told me his son was told by the school he HAS TO play in the Seasonal Celebration orchestra

December 3, 2007 at 4:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

MelissaE (anonymous) says...

Seriously.

Welcome 2007, not 1907. People are diverse. You love God, go to church. Otherwise, get over it already.

Melissa

December 3, 2007 at 4:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

abby_normal (anonymous) says...

Shame on you for thinking everyone, regardless of religion, should be forced into celebrating what you believe.
As far as majority rules... It doesn't if it inflicts on the rights of others.

December 3, 2007 at 5:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

EsqEB (anonymous) says...

Smith Ron,

Call the school board and tell them that it is against your religion to believe in the seasons and the celebration there of, and if they force your son to participate go ahead and call the ACLU. They cannot force your children to participate in extracurricular activities.

December 3, 2007 at 9:16 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

smith_ron (anonymous) says...

But we Methodists do believe in the season and in the celebration of Christmas. I just don't think religion should be forced on anyone.

December 4, 2007 at 1:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Absolute (anonymous) says...

I don't care that employees have paid days off for Christmas. It is a secular holiday as well. My statement referred to the religious nature of the songs that are preformed at the program.

And I was in the program in junior high and was never given the choice about participation.

I wouldn't care if the program was called the "Christmas Program" but the religious songs were left out. Really it is not the title that bothered me, but the content of the program. I am a Christian, but the school district should not be organizing a religious program.

December 4, 2007 at 9:13 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

HometownGirl (anonymous) says...

Some of my fondest Christmas memories are associated with the USD 253 "Christmas Program" of the 1960-1990 decades. I participated as a child and adolescent, and as an adult, I attended every year as one of my personal Christmas traditions.

I loved the traditional Christmas hymns and the beautiful tableaux. I was caught up in the reverence of the hushed, attentive audience as well. I was there the year that some newer songs began to be introduced--songs like "Let There Be Peace on Earth," and I was moved by the modern dance interpretation when it debuted.

But so much of my personal appreciation was damaged, not by the controversy over what name to attribute to the pageant, but by the RUDE, disruptive behavior of many members of the audience. To me, it's only one more indication that too many people these days have no sense of reverence, decorum, or even common courtesy. I cannot imagine why one would bother to attend a program they didn't want to watch and hear, or why people can't be considerate enough of others to be still for a short time, allowing them to watch and hear.

As for the controversy over whether the "Seasonal Celebration" should once again be called by its REAL name, the "Christmas Program," I understand and applaud the school board's reluctance to open the district to potential costly lawsuits.

More importantly, I understand that today's society is much more culturally and religiously diverse than it was when I was young enough to be one of the angelic choir. One of the great things about America is our willingness to assimilate all that diversity, while allowing people the freedom to enjoy their own traditions.

We DO have separation of church and state in our country, and I agree that no child should be required to participate in any activity that makes them uncomfortable, or that is contrary to their personal beliefs and traditions. Here's the other great thing about America--we let people CHOOSE.

Let the Christmas Program continue, please, as part of the cultural history of Emporia. But be ever so careful about who participates. As for the audience--isn't that now, as it has always been, their choice?

December 4, 2007 at 12:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

abby_normal (anonymous) says...

Be careful who participates? So, what, let the Christian children of Emporia have the Christmas program and leave the non-Christians out? Or have the non-Christians go against their religions to make Christians happy? Calling it the Seasonal program and removing the religious songs is the only way to be fair to all the children, and their families.
I wasn't given the choice when I was in school (it was still called the Christmas program) to participate or not. The songs were taught in the school music classroom with no regard to other religions.
You want a Christmas program? Then maybe Christians should get together and put one on instead of expecting our schools to do it.
Stop being selfish and think about the other children involved, who aren't Christians!

December 4, 2007 at 12:28 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Penny (anonymous) says...

Shame on you (author of the editorial) for not doing your research! If you had indeed been to the Seasonal Celebration you would know that it is absolutely beautiful and full of songs celebrating the birth of Jesus (which is what I celebrate during this season). It also celebrates Kwanza, Hanukkah, and the secular aspect of Christmas (Winter Wonderland, Silver Bells, Sleigh Ride) so there is something for the entire community to love. Because public schools exist for the entire community, not just the majority.

By the way, I've been to several "Christmas Programs" at various public schools and this "Seasonal Celebration" has far more recognition of the birth of Christ than any other I've been to. I count myself lucky to have children in a district that has such a beautiful celebration, and I am thankful it ends with these words...Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me.

December 4, 2007 at 2:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

tmt (anonymous) says...

The solution to this issue is so obviously (much like it is in most cases): Let the private sector take over the original Christmas program and let the schools continue to produce the seasonal celebration.

It’s a win-win situation for everyone. The school board can sell the original clothing and props to a private group which would produce a profit for the school board, the private sector can purchase these items with the $2 per person entry fee that audience members would gladly pay. I'm sure the city would allocate the space for the independent program, and the participants would probably eagerly donate their time to putting on the spectacular program. An added bonus would be to open up the participation ages. Instead of having the high school choir as the oldest group, why not ESU students, and then descend from there? Not only would you be getting more added resources you would help bring ESU into this community which it so badly needs. I know of many ESU students who would love the opportunity to perform.

The original Christmas program was beautiful and is a very fond memory, but it is just that a - fond memory. Emporia as a non-discriminatory body who MUST support the difference of state and religion, rather you agree with it or not. Fact. Bitching and whining will NOT EVER change this. If you want to induce change, put your efforts into something that CAN be done. Organize a private sector to re-establish the original program.

December 4, 2007 at 2:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

lycomu (anonymous) says...

TMT that may be the most rational, viable solution i have ever heard regarding this or any other topic. It is of course doomed to failue. You can not use logic or common sense in the public forum. Ranting, emotion, ill will, and carping is what you lack in your argument.

December 4, 2007 at 3:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

hogan77 (anonymous) says...

I have been saying all along that this program should be taken over by the churches. And just now, people are listening to that suggestion?? Good grief. Talking about charging to have people attend and see the lovely program? Again, something I had previously mentioned. Then again, I guess that just because I was born in Emporia, raised in Emporia, went to school in Emporia, that my voice has no meaning anymore; all because I moved away.

I am angry and disappointed that no one had ever brought this option to the school board's attention before. It is the best solution for everyone indeed. I had once before suggested that a ministerial alliance be formed, to take over this program. No one listened.

abby, I would LOVE to know when you participated in the program. Because for me, from the years 1989-1994, no one was EVER forced to participate. PERIOD. The schools knew that they could NOT force any child to participate in the program if they did not have the same beliefs. All they needed was a note from their parents. So I think you may be misinformed on this one. As far as the songs being taught in the classroom, the children who were not participating were sent to the library, or somewhere else during that time.

December 4, 2007 at 5:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

slipandslide (anonymous) says...

tmt your idea is good but how can the kids practice for and have two programs, there isnt time for two. smithron i dont believe the kid was made to participate, unless now that it is a diverse program kids cant sit out for religious reasons, i dont know, but i have known several kids over the years who sit out without a problem from the school. is it possible your neighbor kid did not have parental permission to sit out?

December 4, 2007 at 5:52 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

lycomu (anonymous) says...

Sarcasm was apparently a wasted effort. If you dont understand, chastise I suppose. It must be quite rewarding to be such an athority on all matters great and small. My only intent was to agree with TMT's idea which i find to be a rational approach to an emotional issue. A lot of the other entries have been emotionaly based.

December 4, 2007 at 8:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

lycomu (anonymous) says...

i will withdraw from this as it is not about the issue at hand. good will to all and to all, a good night

December 4, 2007 at 8:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

slipandslide (anonymous) says...

the high school band has a full schedule, with marching season starting its organized practices during the summer they play for the football games parades and the month of october is spent with three out of town marching competitions, the concert/symphonic/pep band season starts in november, including out of town concerts, esu and ehs combined for a jazz concert at esu a few weeks ago. this was an all day event drawing in schools from towns outside emporia, esu ehs ems combines for a mass band performace at the end of the last football game of the year, these are always worth the time to go watch, this years show was exceptional,they are now getting ready for the seasonal program, when the first of the year comes around they will start with solo/ensemble regional and state competitions the having two progarms is a great idea, if the kids had to split their time or pick one program to be in neither, would have enough kids in it to have the effect it has now, maybe esu students could come up with an idea for a program, maybe combine with the public churches and include the emporia chistian school kids and maybe the sacred heart school ? i agree the program should go back to what it was but that isnt possible, the high school kids who are in band usually are also involved in other activities such as sports or theater or 4-h, and then finals week comes before the holiday break it would be a squeeze for them to put more into their schedules, but then again, im not the final authority on that, just a busy band parent.

December 4, 2007 at 9:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

tmt (anonymous) says...

Emporia is a community riddled by controversy. I love this website, because I find it to be full of humor, sprinkled with some actual news. I’ve been reading the posts on here for months and have never really felt compelled to comment myself until now. It’s gone past a mere entertainment and seems to be getting ridiculous.

I never intended to initiate a string of personal attacks, and merely had a suggestion which I felt could easily (more said than done) solve the problem at hand. (Personal note: I will not take this as MY idea. It is the Christmas season and I was giving the idea another look. Whoever wants to take credit or needs the attention feel free to grab it, rather you live here in the community or not – and yes that was my bit of sarcasm)

Now, that being stated – of course just putting it out there and actually doing it is a whole other thing. Is it feasible? Yes I think that it is. Will it be easy? No of course not, but is anything worthwhile EVER easy?

December 5, 2007 at 12:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

tmt (anonymous) says...

Personally I would not want to take on such a task, but with the right leadership, commitment, and POSITIVE attitude I’m sure someone or a group of people would be able to make it work as early as the 2009, possibly even 2008 year. If someone were willing to take this on a few things that you have to work out are:

Location – is the auditorium available for private group functions?
Time – X-mas is busy, busy. Finding the right date/dates is key. It wouldn’t be fair to take away from the district celebration, so would a weekend work better?
Participants – I love the kids singing - it is so sweet -however given the hectic schedules of our children these days with scouts, sports, music and other activities time is limited. Opening the program to all members of the community might not be a bad thing. Remember as with EVERY topic discussed here, change does not have to be a bad thing. That’s how we learn and grow as a society and as individuals.
Sets & costumes– I’m sure the old items are in storage somewhere, what a bonus to the city to free up all that storage space when a local group gladly takes these items off their hands (much like the nativity scene that used to sit on the front lawn of the auditorium)
Decorations – going thru all my Christmas stuff I ended up putting much of it back into storage, due to not having a place for it. I’m sure I’m not the only one. Emporia has always been very generous with its donations.
Ushers, stage crew, lighting – Emporia has never been stingy about stepping up to the plate in my opinion
Program handout – lots of great printing companies in town that I’m sure would volunteer their services.
Choirs – Sweet Adeline’s, ESU, USD 253 – people, this community has the resources
Orchestra/band – Ever see how many kids these days play instruments? Not to mention the ESU students, music teachers, local bands…
Overall cost – with donations making up the majority of the programming I’m sure that it couldn’t be too much. A cost analysis could be done by any number of people in this community.
Overall profit – can this be measured? Sometimes it’s not always about the numbers or bottom-line.

Of course this is not a complete list, just something I thought of off the top of my head. There is much work to be done and I hope that someone does take the time to realistically look at this and try and formulate a strategy or even a brain storming session to put a plan such as this into action.

Slipandslide – great comments on the scheduling conflicts. Be sure to bring that to whomevers’ attention when they create a group to produce this event.

Good luck and Merry Christmas. If this does become a reality know that I would be first in line for tickets for this and the Seasonal celebration.

December 5, 2007 at 12:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

tmt (anonymous) says...

P.S. – people, whether you live in Emporia or not, give each other a break, it is Christmas. Think of that Emporia IMAGE you’re all SO concerned about, as you type away your nasty little jabs to one another. I’d say that’s not THE Emporia I want to live in.

December 5, 2007 at 12:20 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

bdprotheroe (anonymous) says...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls7ila...

December 5, 2007 at 12:56 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

slipandslide (anonymous) says...

nice song Brian, maybe a good time for a traditional christmas program would be the day after school lets out for the holidays, that way the ones who need to travel for the holiday could still be involved either by watching or participating and it might be easier to get use of the auditorium when schools are out anyway the high school band has near 100 kids in it the numbers go up or down a tad from year to year and they sound great so does esu

December 5, 2007 at 3:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sciguy (anonymous) says...

I will be attending a Winter Concert next week, and the name of the event won't earn a second thought in my mind.

I'm going to see and support the students who have worked hard to put on the concert.

The students are not the ones bickering over the name of the concert. If you care about the students, go support them. Don't punish them for your disagreement with the school board.

December 8, 2007 at 11:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )