The flip side
By Joey Berlin
Originally published 01:05 p.m., December 3, 2007
Updated 01:05 p.m., December 3, 2007
“Look at this. This is nasty.”
Ken Tanner leads a tour through what he calls “a landlord’s nightmare.” The tenant of the three-bedroom house, a single mother with two children, has just moved out as the result of an eviction judgment, but her move doesn’t look complete by any stretch.
Leftover furniture, clothes, debris and other personal belongings litter the floors in almost every room and area. Animal droppings are also scattered — even though, Tanner says, the tenant denied neighbors’ claims that she was keeping pit bulls. Broken windows and fire damage to the house’s exterior are part of the tour, too. Tanner says police executed a drug raid on the house on Nov. 15, and the woman and her boyfriend were both arrested.
“I came down last night, she’s like, ‘Well, it was only a little bit of marijuana,’” Tanner said. “Don’t do drugs.”
To Tanner and some other local landlords, tenants like this are the opposite extreme to so-called “slumlords.” They’re part of the reason why many local landlords have resisted a proposal by the Emporia Human Relations Commission for new rental housing standards, which call for annual licensing fees for landlords and regular inspections of rented properties.
Tanner estimated it would cost him between $3,000 and $4,000 to restore the house to liveability on top of $6,000 he already spent on it earlier this year. He said he would try to get Patty Gilligan, the HRC’s director, to come to the house to look at the damage.
“She needs to see this,” he said.
Reached later last week, Gilligan confirmed that Tanner had tried to get her to come see the house, and that he got mad when she wouldn’t do so.
“I don’t need to come look at it — I believe you, Ken,” she said. “I know that there are properties that are substandard because of the damage that (tenants have) done and that kind of thing. That does happen, and I don’t deny that that happens.”
Other local landlords have had their own tastes of the same extreme. Lyman Selby tells of recently evicting tenants who hadn’t paid rent, then entering the house to find an infestation of cockroaches.
“We waited about a week to come in,” he said. “We literally filled a plastic grocery sack bag half-full of roaches we had swept up out of just two bedrooms and the living room and dining room.”
Selby said Flint Hills Pest Control had to come to the house three times in an effort to exterminate the roaches. He estimated total damage would amount to around $800 or $900 — money he won’t be able to get out of the tenants.
“You can’t. Not these people,” he said. “No, he just works part-time, and she draws disability, Social Security, and they’ve got four kids. ... You can’t garnish disability income. No, it’s just something we’re stuck having to absorb.”
But that wasn’t the worst shape Selby’s ever seen one of his houses in. Above that, he places a tenant who he says left fast-food trash stacked in the house and left more unwanted surprises in the kitchen and bathroom.
“I picked up a plastic bag off of the kitchen floor of that house, right by the range, and it had meat in it. And it was so rotten, it was full of maggots,” he said.
“In the bathroom, there was a pile of used toilet paper about three foot high, because she would never flush it.”
Selby said he showed pictures from that house to both former City Manager Steve Commons and current City Manager Matt Zimmerman to “tell them, ‘Hey, if you’re gonna license the landlord, license the tenant, or else you pick up these kind of damages.’”
Jerry Olmsted, another landlord, said he realizes there are both bad landlords and bad tenants. He believes most tenants are good, and can think of only a couple of instances of tenants destroying one of his properties. One of them involved a house where the tenants tore all the drywall off the walls with kung fu exercises.
“They kicked it, like, you know — hi-ya! — kicked the walls out,” he said. “And they did the ceiling with a pogo stick, or some kind of stick you use.”
Insurance ended up picking up about $8,000 worth of damage, which Olmsted said also included baseball bat damage to the refrigerator and stove.
“But I want you to understand, I am not one-sided on this deal,” Olmsted said. “I think that the Human Relations (Commission) has tried really hard, and I think they try to do what’s right. I don’t think some of them understand. They’re being one-sided like some landlords. ... They’re narrow-minded, and I’m saying both sides. And you’ve got to be open-minded to this deal.
“Everybody needs to try to make this thing work, and I think there can be a compromise in here.”
Olmsted sees benefit in the ongoing debate over rental housing codes.
“If nothing else, it’s made people aware,” he said, “that we’ve got some situations. And I think that’s good.”
Gilligan believes landlords can protect themselves by careful screening of their applicants.
“There are legitimate points on both sides of the coin here,” she said. “But the point is that rental housing, deciding to be a landlord, is a business decision. Anywhere that you invest your money and do business, there are some regulations involved.”
Tanner believes he did all he possibly could to protect himself against tenants like the one who damaged his property. He said he furnishes thorough, eight-page rental applications to prospective tenants. But when the damage bill comes, often the landlord has no hope of recouping that money from the tenant.
“Guess what?” he said. “If they don’t have any money, you can’t get any money.”
create (anonymous) says...
What Tanner says is true about suing tenants; you can't get blood out of a turnip, but how often does this serious kind of damage take place? This was awful, yes.
“In the bathroom, there was a pile of used toilet paper about three foot high, because she would never flush it.”
Is there a reason why she wouldn't flush it? Were the sewer lines working? I can't imagine someone not flushing paper unless the sewer wasn't working or there were roots in the line. We need the entire story here.
December 3, 2007 at 1:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
kc1985 (anonymous) says...
To create: I can't imagine why someone wouldnt flush their used toilet paper either. However, in this case, this person simply chose not to flush her toilet. There were no sewer problems in that house. Now you have the entire story. These landlords are honest, hard working people. They dont make up stories for the fun of it. Get off their backs.
December 3, 2007 at 3:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Hey kc, ease up, bud. I was only asking an honest question! You gave me an honest answer. My own daughter had to just give up and move out of a house when the landlord would not hire roto rooter and the toilet kept backing up because of roots. I know damn well landlords don't make up the stories -- I myself am a landlord so BACK OFF!!!
December 3, 2007 at 3:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jackslap (anonymous) says...
Tanner deserves it. He usually sticks it to his tenants. Go Tenants.
December 3, 2007 at 4:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
MelissaE (anonymous) says...
I hope the two children in this particular story were taken away from the (so-called) mother by social services.
M
December 3, 2007 at 4:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hogan77 (anonymous) says...
Screening potential tenants? Seriously Ms. Gilligan. Who is to say that a single mom who can just afford that house will destroy it, or that the other single mom who can afford it, or a more expensive place, won't? And, what if these are new single moms are newly divorced, and had owned their homes before hand? There may not be enough background on them to give them and their children a shot, leaving them in the streets. Screening them is not always an effective method. In fact, there are times that screening them is not beneficial for either landlord OR prospective tenant.
It is a potential risk for anyone wanting to be either tenant or landlord. That's just something you need to keep in mind when doing this sort of business. On the landlord's side, you have those that come in and destroy your property, leaving you a hefty bill. On the flip side, you have landlords either not providing safe housing or keeping you from renting because they screen, either leaving you in filth or on the streets.
I think Ms. Gilligan should take a wander through some of these houses and apartments, instead of sitting in the comfort of her clean office or home. She needs to see both sides before she goes assuming that the landlords can "protect" themselves by screening.
By the way, if the landlords can screen potential tenants, can the tenants screen potential landlords as well?
December 3, 2007 at 4:59 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hogan77 (anonymous) says...
Create: Just something to think of next time your daughter has that problem. Tell her to hire the plumbing guys herself, keep the receipt, make a copy, and deduct it from her rent. When I had issues like that, that is EXACTLY what I did. Let me tell you, after a while of us doing things like that, the landlord finally changed his tune and made all the repairs that were needed! And, if the landlord tries to take her to court for non payment of rent, have her take in her receipts, plus any pics if she can get them, to prove she was in need of clean and working plumbing.
I was screwed over by too many landlords in the Emporia area, that's how I learned to do things like this. They have standards they need to uphold, I am sure you are aware of this. So when the slumlords don't hold up their end of the bargain, stick it to them... Everyone deserves a clean dwelling, no matter who they are, or how cheap the rent is. Period.
December 3, 2007 at 5:03 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
bobseger757 (anonymous) says...
Lyman Selby, are you kidding me. You people go look at some of his properties and tell me he's not one of the major "slumlords" people need protection from. Takes advantage of these people to line his own pockets. No doubt he won't want anyone inspecting one of his many properties.
December 3, 2007 at 5:17 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
create (anonymous) says...
Good question on screening landlords as well as tenants, Hogan. I only have one apartment, but I've had people ask me questions about myself. They don't know that I'm not a disturbed person.
Thanks for the info on deducting repairs from the rent, etc. Good advice.
I've always been interested in providing a good, clean environment for tenants. In many years, I've only had one problem when the tenant owed me rent and left town while I was at work. No social security number, too bad. Anyway, they left some raw fish and two loaves of bread dough in the refrigerator. Without electricity, oh my. The fish was pure barf, and the bread grew and grew and grew. Probably the worst thing I've ever had to clean.
December 3, 2007 at 5:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
rox_alan (anonymous) says...
I live close to this house and my backyard is right next to their house. I also know that it isn't sewer problems why she didn't flush the toliet cause Tanner had a crew out there taking care of the sewer lines over the summer cause they had to use my back yard to do it... It is pure laziness on her part that she didn't flush.
Yes sometimes landlords can rip people off in their rent but I don't think this is the case of Tanner's situation. He has another house in our area and has always been there to fix something once he is notified of the problem.
Tenants should respect people's property, I don't care who you are you should show respect. What someone does to their own property is their own business but when it is someone else's property they shouldn't destroy someone's property.
December 3, 2007 at 6:10 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
Hillbilly (anonymous) says...
patty gilligan,, if you are going to be in this game your playing, maybe you need to get off your xxx and get out and SEE what is happening with these rentals instead of assuming that you already know, you ain't that good yet, listen to others for a change, and actually see how bad it can be, I know , it might even make you sick,,
here's to you P. Gilligan........one ringie dinnie.....
December 3, 2007 at 7:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
neighbor (anonymous) says...
Create,
Don't know if this was the case or not on the toilet tissue part of the story;
There are parts of Mexico where you don't flush toilet paper after use, ever. They haul it out and burn it or simply discard it in the yard. Their sewer systems cannot handle much more than water. Some of the newest arrivals to the states bring that practice North with them.
Landlords that get burnt are the ones that don't/won't screen potential renters thoroughly enough, fail to secure adequate security deposits, and don't see to it that the property is rent ready to begin with.
December 3, 2007 at 8:13 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
zippy (anonymous) says...
My college aged kids rent from the same landlord and when something needs repaired they call and leave a message and NEVER get a call back. We have to try and repair things for them that are clearly repairs and expenses that belong to the owner. I bet this landlord would not allow HIS children to live in these substandard houses.
December 3, 2007 at 8:40 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
hottopics (anonymous) says...
I totally agree that if a landlord wont fix what is wrong to deduct it from the rent. If I was a landlord, I would be checking in on my tenants. It would be in the lease that there would be inspections to maintain upkeep as well if there are repair needs. If I found that the property was being neglected it would be a deal breaker and a notice to move.
Now when it comes to recovering damages. I beg to differ. You can take them to court and follow procedures to garnish just like the medical community does to all those who have no health insurance and cant pay the bills. They dont mind garnishing so why should landlords?
You can sue for up to $4000 in small claims. Sure it might take awhile to collect it all but its better than nothing and it is what court is there for.
Unfortunately, most of these people have never owned a home. They dont and wont appreciate a nice place to live that they just rent.
December 3, 2007 at 9:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
devilsadvocate (anonymous) says...
There is no denying that there are both good and bad landlords and tenants. I was just curious if there was or could be a web site for both landlords and tenants which would allow both to post positive or negative feedback on the respective tenant or landlord. Couldn't there also be a message board in which prospective landlord/tenants could elicit responses regarding potential landlord/tenants so as to make a more informed decision.
December 4, 2007 at 10:53 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
LilJHawkFan (anonymous) says...
I am a teacher, and my first year of teaching I taught in a classroom where there were only immigrant children. At the end of my first day, I went into our little bathroom and there was a pile of used toilet paper on the floor. The children were never shown to flush their toilet paper. They didn't flush in in Mexico, so they did not flush it here. They throw it in the trash can. They usually throw it in a trash can, but I had the trash can out by the sink so they threw it on the floor. Maybe she was from Mexico and did not understand that we flush our paper in the USA. Just a thought...
Other than that, I feel bad for the landlord. I don't care what the circumstances are, it is GROSS to clean up someone else's mess...
I like what Cory Haag has done with the nice apartments for college students.
I think that being a landlord is a gamble...I wouldn't want to do it and I would be REALLY picky about who I rent to...
December 4, 2007 at 12:22 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
jaxson (anonymous) says...
ha ha I find it funny that someone would be attacking one of the better landlords in the city. Lyman Selby's properties are kept up quite well. They work full time keeping them up and always have a clean liveable house to move into. He can't control what the tenant does after they move in.
btw on the toilet paper issue.... I ran into Lyman and was giving him a hard time about the pile of toilet paper. He told me that the sewer was in good working condition and the tenant was a local emporia native. It was unknown why she would not flush the paper.
December 5, 2007 at 4:43 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )
johncanyon (anonymous) says...
Ok.. I get it. They do not flush toilet paper in Mexico. That being said, do they just leave it piled up in the bathroom with fecal stains and remains on it..? I doubt it. Surely they throw it away. So why would this landlord come into his apartment and find it piled up in the corner. How Disgusting.. If ya don't want to flush it...THROW IT AWAY!!!
Why am I seeing responses here defending the actions of someone leaving a mess like this in there home?
Imagine the smell!
December 6, 2007 at 2:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )