Posted by glarson (Gwen Larson) on May 7, 2008 at 7:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Continued discussion prompted from the original story:

http://www.emporiagazette.com/news/2008/...

Posted by lnoller (anonymous) on May 7, 2008 at 8:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

KStre... The reputation comes from people like hottopics blaming every pit bull (type) for what happened to her dogs instead of blaming the irresponsible owner. It comes from people like hottopics saying the MIX that attacked her dog is the same as my full blooded dog. It comes from the fact that most dog attacks are reported by either the person attacked or a witness, who dont know the difference between a lab mix and a pit bull. It comes from irresponsible owners and irresponsible breeders.
Have you seen those huge white "pit bulls" around town? The people breeding them are calling them something like "California Kings" or something of the sort. They sell them and tell people they are buying a pit bull while they are really mixed breed curs. One of those dogs bites someone and guess who takes tha blame? Pit bulls. I dispise people who follow "breeding practises" like that. They have no concern for temperament or health, just money. Unfortunately those kinds of breeders are all over the place with every breed you can name. Remember all the hype about Dalmatians after the 101 Disney movie? That hype, irresponsible breeding and ownership landed Dalmatians in the top 10 of most dangerous breeds, where they still sit. There is still a problem wiht temperament in that breed. They are still know to be dangerous around children. (Should we ban them?)
Again, I am not saying a pit bull type hasnt ever done anything wrong unprovoked, but there isnt a single breed that hasnt. There isnt a single breed that hasnt killed or completely maimed someone. People tend to forget that any pit bull statistics, other than those on the ATTS website are not the stats of one breed but several, including any dog that resembels a pit bull type (go try the 'find the pit bull' test I posted earlier). When you see all those pit bull stats, it isnt one breed but several, including anything that resembles a pit bull type. If we did the same with other types of dogs we wouldnt see much of a difference, and actually, APBTs would be lower on the list than most breeds in the bite catergory.
I am by no means saying there aren't bad dogs. I am not one of those people who believe it is all in how they are raised. Bloodlines have a lot to do with it.
Also, look at the population of pit bull types here in Emporia. You cant take a drive on a nice day without seeing several pit bulls. If these dogs were so dangerous, considering the population of them in our town, dont you think there would have been more than just one attack in the last couple years? I know there have been other breeds responsible for attacks, just none of them make the paper.

Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on May 7, 2008 at 9:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This sort of begs the question. How many attacks are acceptable? We've had dogs killed, and most recently a person attacked in her own back yard. If/when it happens to a defenseless child will it be acceptable because it is just another isolated case?

What I'm looking for from pit bull owners is some support. It's not enough for them to say they are responsible owners. We need their help in fixing the problem. Unfortunately I don't think that is going to happen given what I'm reading. Pit bull owners simply don't want to work with the rest of the community to solve the problem.

Posted by lnoller (anonymous) on May 7, 2008 at 9:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

net... Dont we need that from ALL dog owners? Pit bull types are not the only ones involved in bites and attacks.
I mentioned in a previous post about a dog that was attacking children (he lived right next to Lowther South). I called the police, because of course, animal control was closed (surprise, surprise). When the officer got there the dog growled, barked and lunged at him. He said he was going to have to go get the animal control truck and he'd be back. When he got back, as he was trying to confine the dog, the owner pulled up. The officer allowed the guy to put his dog back in the kennel he had escaped from and didnt even give the man a ticket. The dog had already bitten and chased several children. It wasnt a pit bull type.
I see dogs running loose all over the place.
I have no problem working with the community, but again, it shouldnt be just pit bull owners but owners of any type of dog. Maybe more pit bull owners would be willing if the rest of the community wasnt calling for their dogs head on a platter.

Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on May 7, 2008 at 10:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Inoller
I don't have a problem with that. And, I agree that there are far too many dogs running loose. But also keep in mind that the most recent episode was a bit bull, and I don't think it's as isolated as we'd like to think. About a month ago a white pit bull mix got loose in our neighborhood. When my wife and I saw it we tried at first to call it, hoping it would be friendly. Unfortunately it wasn't and growled and displayed the usual aggressive behaviors. Animal control did nothing, I think because they were every bit as afraid of the dog as the people in our neighborhood were.

The comunity needs pit bull owners to help. What the community wants them to understand is that most people aren't willing any more to wait until something terrible happens before some action is taken. Therefore, I think it is in the best interests of pit bull owners to work with the communty before the worst unfolds and the city commission has a city up in arms demanding drastic action. Now is the time to act with the community to solve the problem without singling out a breed.

Posted by hottopics (anonymous) on May 7, 2008 at 12:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I cant believe I am sitting here listening to all of this. Where were all of you when it was in the paper and before the commission in Oct-Nov of 2006. The vicious dog law went into effect in Dec of 2006 and Laura Miser said she never seen or heard of it???

I am just upset that it has taken a person getting attacked to spark a new fire to move for changes that were needed a lonnnnnngggggg time ago.

But lets do take advantage of this and push them to write it the correct way this time. Please contact the commissioners.

Posted by hottopics (anonymous) on May 7, 2008 at 12:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

For those of you who are entitled to your opinions....

This dog here that killed two dogs might have been 1/2 pit bull but the THREE that attacked a shredded a teacup poodle by snatching her off of Jeans porch were. The one who went into Brians S. yard and killed his rat terrier was. The dog that knocked B. Larson off his bike at 9pm was a pit bull. How many attacks and animal deaths do you want to see happen? How many times does a person or a child need to be attacked or mauled?

I just want these people who CHOOSE to have these dangerous breeds to know that if their dog EVER does this to a human or animal that both Owner and Animal WILL PAY HUGE FINES and the animal gets put down. That they will be liable for damages to the victims and their pets.
Its that simple. I dont care what breed it is. Make them PAY. Stop slapping them on the hand in court and letting them walk away and still own these animals.

Thats it, thats all and is what should be put into law and enforce it.

Posted by lnoller (anonymous) on May 7, 2008 at 1:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Im curious as to how all those dogs were identified as pit bulls. Its a proven fact pit bulls take responsibility for attacks that werent caused by any one of the breeds defined as a pit bull. I'm not saying they werent, but how is it really known? Because they might look like a pit bull type? Again... go take the "find the pit bull test." I doubt you could pick it out.
Pit bulls arent the only TYPES of dogs doing such things. It goes through all breeds/mixes.
Why is it people turn their heads when a breed other than one of the pit bull types is involved in an attack?
I WAS at the meeting. There was ONE person there fighting to ban pit bull types. ONE. And there wasnt a single person who thought dangerous dogs, OF ANY BREED, and their irresponsible owners should be let off easy.
One more thing... Any dog of any breed or type has the ability to be dangerous, including the little ones. To not think so is moronic. One of my biggest pet peeves is how owners of little dogs think its "cute" when their little dog bares his teeth back and tries to bite someone. See it all the time on those stupid home videos and what not.
Just a few of the "not so dangerous" little dogs that have made (local) news. Funny how if it were a pit bull it would be everywhere but since they arent the stories arent all over the news...
http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news...
http://cbs2chicago.com/local/dog.mutilat...
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/10/09/po...
A pom attacks a pit bull... http://community.livejournal.com/breedis...

Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on May 7, 2008 at 2:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

hottopics

I made my concerns know to the city commission in 2006. Unfortunately, the city decided that a "study" was needed before they could/would act.

Intoller

It does not appear that the community can count on your support. I've already agreed with you that I don't have a "breed specific" ordinance in mind. But I really don't think we can get to pit bull owners to agree with us to find a solution to the problem. Comparisons between the dangers of a pomerians attacking a pit bull aren't helpful. They indicate that the posture of too many pit bull owners is defensive and unwilling to work with the community.

Unfortuantely, until we get this to change we are going to stay on the current treadmill. People will lobby the commission for help.the pit bull owners will say it's all unfair, a study will be completed, and we'll be back at the status quo. This will escalate until, tragically, something terrible happens to a defenseless child. The dog owner will say it's all very unfortunate, but that the dog was probably provoked by the child.

Let me get back to the bottom line. It's public safety! My concern isn't the breed type that attacks. The recent pit bull attack only serves to show how powerful and dangerous some animals can be. It doesn't help at all to then have pit bull owners try to cast the light elsewhere. I'd bet that if the attack had been by a chow or German shepherd, rotweiller, doberman, Rhodesian ridgeback the owners of those breeds would be citing statistics showing how domesticated they are. Right now, that is not the issue. It is public safety! The public has a right to feel safe in their yards. They have a right to believe that their kids will be safe on the walks to and from school or in the playground.

I think if you would work with the community on this issue, the public would work with you.
.

Posted by lnoller (anonymous) on May 7, 2008 at 2:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I have no problem offering my support to the community, but I will not support any kind of BSL. And, yeah, as an owner of an APBT I am defensive and will continue to be as long as people are trying to take my right to own my choice of breed.
You say you dont have a "breed specific" ordinance in mind yet you say " I really don't think we can get to pit bull owners to agree with us to find a solution to the problem." Instead of stating that ALL dog owners need to work with the community to solve the problem. That is why I posted the articles.
We will have problems with dogs of all types until our law enforcement does something about all the stray dogs running around, or when they start to enforce the leash law, and until people with dogs (of any kind) become more responsible.
I agree harsher punishments should be put on irresponsible owners.

Posted by MelissaE (anonymous) on May 7, 2008 at 3:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

If we ban certain breeds of dogs, can we ban certain types of guns, too?

How about this: We'll ban "large breed" dogs & "large type" guns.

Killer = killer, no?

Let's also ban "trashy" music, immoral books and we should definitely stop selling magazines with pictures of naked people in them.

While we're at it, let's ban the Internet....

Melissa

Posted by hottopics (anonymous) on May 7, 2008 at 3:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I am not saying Ban them. I am saying that there needs to be stiff laws in place to protect those who are injured. If people know that if their dog attacks or kills another domestic animal or human that there will be serious consequences. Maybe then people will think twice about owning one or take extra measures that these animals cant escape or have the opportunity to cause great harm.
What is wrong with that???? Why would you not support such laws?? Remember, it could be you or your dog that is attacked. Wouldnt you want to know that justice will be served?

Posted by hottopics (anonymous) on May 7, 2008 at 3:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Another small dog was killed by a already known aggressive dog just a few months. It was a black german shepard that was kicked out of the police academy for being to aggressive with other dogs. SO THEY SOLD IT and it ended up in our city. It severed the yorkies spine, paralyzing her. She had to be put down. Of course the family kids were devastated.

The German Shepard went to the shelter for its 10 days and was sent BACK to the owners. I had to raise cane again with the city. They told the owners to remove it from the city limits within 3 days. Laura Miser dismissed the case and they moved immediately. No where to be found. Now the grieving family cant even take them to court for vet bills. Who knows where the dog is now.

This is another example of people and animals needing to pay up.

Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on May 7, 2008 at 6:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Something needs to be done before a really tragic incident occurs. This doesn't mean that the solution is an animal ban, but it's just not enough to keep saying that trying to do something about the problem is an imposition on somebody else's freedom. The solution from those advocating for the dog owners seems to be for the rest of us to just accept the fact that attacks will occur and then mourn when they happen.

I understand the argument about freedom, but individual freedom in this country is not an unlimited right. Our jails are full of people who've assumed and acted as though there were no limits on their freedoms to do whatever they want. We can't rob other people with impunity, we can't just go around mugging, etc. I say it's fine for dog owners to own certain breeds of dogs, but they also need to understand that the rest of us have the right to be safe in public as well.

I'm a pet owner - two dogs and two cats. I want the freedom to own them, but I also know that I bear the responsibility for their behavior and don't think it's unreasonable to abide by community rules (leash laws, harboring a vicious animal, etc.) After all, the rest of the community also has rights

Posted by hottopics (anonymous) on May 7, 2008 at 6:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well said Netloafer.

No "ONE" at that meeting was to ban Pit Bulls. The whole idea was to catch peoples attention of the lack of laws protecting its community and lack of discipline to those who choose to let their dogs run and mutiliate others. If you listened to the actual commission meeting you would have heard that it wasnt for just the Pit Bulls. But with so many attacks that are still occuring to this day, it was the right time to be very public about the necessity to rewrite the ordinance and find people employed and paid by this city to enforce it. Neither are being done. Yet!!!!!

Posted by slipandslide (anonymous) on May 7, 2008 at 7:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

with so many pit bulls living in emporia, does anyone think there are pit bull fights here in town? i own a large dog (over 80 lbs) I keep his leash short enough it wont reach the public sidewalk, and i dont put him outside on days when there is alot of foot traffic. he wont bite, but he is always on a leash or confined in a way that he cant run loose. its alittle more work than just turning him loose to get his exercise and use the bathroom, but i have peace of mind that he wont get into trouble and the neighbors have peace of mind that they can walk by my house and their kids can play out without being bothered by a dog. its easy to keep control of a dog, and its reasonable that anyone should be able to keep their under control.

Posted by psmyers (anonymous) on May 7, 2008 at 9:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It was my sister who was attacked by this vicious pit bull and this NEVER should have happened. She had spoken to the owner of these pit bulls that live next to her repeatedly about letting them loose but he wouldn't listen. He said his dogs would listen to him. HA!! That dog attacked her, bit her repeatedly, pulled her to the ground and would probably have killed her if she hadn't thrown her little dog aside so it wouldn't get hurt and then the pit bull went after it. This gave her the chance to get off the ground and run to the house. To you parents who have children in Walnut School you should know that these pit bulls live directly across the street from the playground. Just think what that dog would have done to your child. The animal control took the dog that mauled my sister but there is another one there that looks like it would love nothing better than to tear you to shreds. They can't do anything about it until it gets someone else. Will that maybe be a little kid?? We would be glad to give the Gazette some of the pictures of the huge bites from my sister. Please, call your city manager and do something about this before it happens, because it WILL.

Posted by hottopics (anonymous) on May 7, 2008 at 9:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I hope your sister is okay. We have been worried about her. Please let me know if she needs any help with ANY THING when it comes to this. I hope she is going to sue her neighbor blind. Be on the look out, this dog WILL be returned to the owner in TEN days if you dont call the City Attorney and stop it. I hope he is a home owner because you will be suing his insurance company who will be dropping his policy after they pay her all she deserves. She then needs to file a complaint with the city because they have allowed this to happen AGAIN.

Posted by justthefacts (anonymous) on May 7, 2008 at 10:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

just curious, has anybody bothered to check with the animal shelter or police to find out what really happened as opposed to all the guessing that is going on here?

Posted by Bjnemp (anonymous) on May 8, 2008 at 12:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Pit Bull owners just don't get it. Sure, other dogs bite. All dogs will bite under certain conditions. So will cats, Gerbils, Hamsters, snakes, and even some fish. But none of them can bite with 800 pounds of pressure and continue to attack until the prey, or predator, is dead. Pit Bulls are a menace to humans and other animals alike. They should be banned from all populated areas, especially within city limits. Owners of these genetically altered mutants have no regard for others and are risking being the object of a major life-altering law suit when the inevitable happens. Pit Bulls are the pits. Defending them is bull.

Posted by gazette_reader (anonymous) on May 8, 2008 at 3:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

psmyers, I'm sorry about your sister. I hope she recovers with minimal complications.

Banned or not, what puzzles me is how popular these dogs have become in our city in the past few years. I am a regular walker, and I see more and more of these dogs barking through fences and fliers advertising pups for sale. As a rule, I am weary of dogs I don't know, but I am especially weary of powerfully built dogs that are throwing their weight against the fence and barking angrily.

One problem with banning pit bulls is that as soon as the ordinance goes into place, people start dumping the animals wherever they can. One of my coworkers has family in Salina, and she tells me that many, many pit bulls were dumped outside city limits. If you consider pit bulls unsafe one-on-one, imagine a roving pack of them in the countryside.

For those on this forum who are considering what to say to the City Commission, I offer this suggestion for a grandfather clause:

Owners may keep dogs registered prior to the date the ordinance takes effect if:

- No complaints have ever been filed against the dog;
- The dog is housed indoors or in a fence that meets specific height and structural guidelines, and is locked at all times;
- The dog is neutered/spayed;
- The owner is able to provide evidence that the dog's vaccinations are up-to-date.

Personally, I can't understand why anyone would select a pit bull for a pet. But if an ordinance goes into effect, I do believe in handling the situation as humanely as possible. A grandfather clause such as the one above would allow truly responsible owners (frankly, what I suggested above wouldn't be unacceptable for any dog and dog owner, not just pit bulls and their owners) with well-tempered dogs to keep their pets.

Posted by slipandslide (anonymous) on May 8, 2008 at 6:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

this reminds me of a situation in another town where a woman had been telling her son she was afraid some neighbors pits would attack her, they seemed to pay too much attention to her when she was in the yard, so her son bought her a cell phone to use in case there was a problem with the dogs, sure enough the dogs attacked her one day while she was in the garden, she was able to call her son who was at work, but the dogs mauled her to death. not only should an ordinance be passed, but there shurly are pit fights in this town and i thought those where illegal.

Posted by Bjnemp (anonymous) on May 8, 2008 at 8:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

FYI: Believe it or not, the cute little Pit Bull breed is banned in 8 nations. Yes, the entire country. Also, Pit Bulls are banned in at least 23 large US cities, and one whole state (Oklahoma). Cities in our area with Pit Bull bans include Springfield and Independence, MO and Overland Park, KS. Hard to figure why this breed would be banned in entire nations, states, and cities if they are so cuddly and safe.

Posted by momof3 (anonymous) on May 8, 2008 at 9:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I am curious to know what everyone considers "vicious"

I agree that larger breed dogs...ALL, not just pit bull type, can inflict more damage.

What about the "ankle biter" that bit my son in the face and he required stitches? Is that dog vicious?

What about the German Shepherd that bit my son and ripped his sweatshirt to pieces? Is that dog vicious?

What about the Chihuahua that crossed the street to bite at both my dog and I? Is that dog vicious?

What about the medium size dog that attacked my dog, who was on her leash, and I had to kick several times to get it off my dog, before it's owners got up off their butts and got ahold of it? Is that dog vicious?

Again, are we lucky we have never had a run in with the pit type dogs, maybe but we have had plenty of troube with other kinds of unleashed or not fenced in dogs.

EPD...enforce the leash law and when someone complains about a dog at large...do something...do not wait until another person gets bit.

Posted by hottopics (anonymous) on May 8, 2008 at 9:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The ordinance considers a dog vicious if it attacks, seriously injures or kills a human or domestic animal without provocation. But the law does NOT state that the dog must be put down or removed from the city limits. It is suppose to be up to the judge to decide but these owners arent even getting before the judge because the cases are dismissed before getting there.

Posted by momof3 (anonymous) on May 8, 2008 at 10:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

hottopics...

Thanks for your answer. That said, just because a smaller dog will probably not "seriously" injure me or my dog, it is not vicious. Not sure I agree with that, but that is my feeling.

In each of the cases I listed above, there was no provocation. We were walking, with my dog on a leash, on a public sidewalk.

If my dog had decided to fight back in any way, which she did not, and kill the attacking dog, who is running loose, who is at fault? Mine because she may be larger?

What laws will protect us from these attacks?

I agree 100% with what you say, but we still have a problem. EPD does not seem to care about or enforce the current laws so we should not be surprised they don't enforce what you have tried to do.

We have changed our walking schedule to much later at night when most of the repeat offenders of letting their dogs run loose, have gone to bed.

Better to be safe than sorry I say.

Posted by hottopics (anonymous) on May 8, 2008 at 11:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

If you are walking and your dog on a leash, it doesnt matter what size the attack dog is. It Attacked, period.

I said from the very beginning that a law is only as good as it is enforced. EPD does not always have the man power to set in on what the Animal Control should be doing. They need someone on call 24/7 not 9-5. The Municipal court isnt enforcing it either. We are just out there waiting to be the next victim. It is scary, so Commissioners, if you are paying attention, get back in there and fix this before another dog dies or worse US.

Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on May 8, 2008 at 11:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I sent the following email, in two parts, to the city commissioners and the animal shelter.

I read about the recent pit bull attack on Ninth.

I've also seen that there are a lot of folks here in town concerned about this problem. In November 2006 a pit bull mix attacked a couple of dogs from a neighbor's yard. When all was said and done the city commission decided to conduct a study on what did or did not constitute a vicious dog. Then the subject was given a bit of lip service and things seemed to be "alright."

We have a serious problem here in Emporia with dogs running loose. I have two dogs, one of which I adopted at the shelter, and walk them on leashes. A while ago I was walking one of them and a woman let her three dogs loose from her yard. They attacked mine and it took everything I had to fend them off and keep my dog from getting hurt. She apologized for what had happened, which is usually the case in these types of incidents. I thought about calling either the shelter or the police, but realized nothing would come of it; it would have been a waste of my time. I came away from the incident realizing that my best course of action was to change my walking route(s) and time of day. That was about six months ago. I've had to make two more adjustments after seeing dogs loose in my neighborhood as I walked my dogs. I'm hoping this will be the last time I have to do it.

I have called the shelter at times about dogs running loose. The response is spotty. Sometimes there's been a response. Sometimes not. On days when there is no one at the shelter I've called the police department. They have NEVER responded.

I suppose as far as the city is concerned these are satisfactory resolutions. But I don't think so. First, I don't think it is fair that I and other responsible pet owners should have to adjust our routines to accommodate those who are irresponsible. Second, I am really concerned that we are going to have a very serious incident here in Emporia. The most recent attack took place near Walnut School, which puts a lot of small children needlessly at risk. Further, the attack took place when the pit bull got into the neighbor's yard and attacked the person on her own property.

Posted by netloafer (anonymous) on May 8, 2008 at 11:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Part two follows. I recommend others put pressure on the commissioners and others responsible for fixing this problem:

This is a very serious public safety issue and the city does not seem, to this point, to be taking it very seriously. As one of a growing number of Emporians, I am growing weary of the studies, excuses, and lack of response on the part of those tasked with protecting the public. We want action, not studies or excuses for the behavior of irresponsible people.

The owners of these animals cite their right and freedom to own these pets. In other words, they flaunt their freedom against the rights and freedom of the rest of us. And, they are getting away with it because the responses, from the front line to the commissioners, to the judges, is totally inadequate. The city needs to understand that it has a solemn obligation to protect the public. And, city leaders need to understand that these freedoms too often cited are not unlimited. In theory, any of us has the freedom to swing our fists in the air, but that freedom ends where my neighbor's nose begins. The same holds true in these cases.

I don't have any interest in a breed specific brand. I believe the over-arching problem needs to be addressed.

While I haven't seen any, I have heard that there are pit bull fights being conducted in Emporia area. I can't say for sure it's happening, but judging by the increased number of pit bulls or pit bull mixes I see around time, it wouldn't surprise me. I hope, but doubt, that the city and county are doing any investigative work here.

I don't think it's unreasonable for the people of Emporia to expect action, from the top all the way to rank and file. I think it begins with the city commission. It's time for the studies to end and time for the commission to lead, letting city employees responsible for protecting the public know in unambiguous terms that they are to serve the public interest here. We don't expect a response like, "scheduling is difficult" or that "we're busy with other things." That's not good enough any more. I think that Matt Zimmerman, the shelter manager, and Chief Smith have an important role to play also. They need make it clear that action is required and that attention to the legitimate needs of the public is required.

If something isn't done it is, unfortunately, only a matter of time until someone, a defenseless child, a senior citizen, or a neighbor or yours is attacked and seriously injured. I don't think that city leaders or front line employees want this to happen, but unless/until more substantive action is taken, it will. This is a ticking time bomb, waiting to explode.

To this end, I plead with those in positions of power, privilege, and responsibility. Please act - NOW!

Posted by momof3 (anonymous) on May 8, 2008 at 12:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

hottopics...I agree that an attack is an attack no matter the size.

Would everyone still feel the same if my dog was a pit bull? If me and a pit bull were walking, with it on a leash, and got attacked by a loose dog and the pit bull dog killed the attacking dog...

I can see the headlines "Pit Bull Attack"

You seem to be among the few that don't seem to be trying to "ban" a specific breed. Even though you personally have had horrible experiences with the pit type animals. I applaud you for that.

I think ANY dog, ANY size, that is running loose and bites should be taken from it's owner.

Maybe the smaller dogs are covered under the nuisance dogs law? Just asking because I really don't know.

We very much need 24/7 Animal Control.

Posted by Bjnemp (anonymous) on May 8, 2008 at 12:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

MelissaE: Let's stay real here, girl. Dogs, large and small, are capable of an attack. The size is not the issue. Ability and tendency to inflict catastrophic injury or death is. Therefore, arbitrarily banning all "large breed" dogs would be uncalled for. Also, never in the history of the world has a gun, large or small, ever jumped out of a drawer or pocket and attacked anyone. Assault is a behavior, not a device.

Posted by MelissaE (anonymous) on May 8, 2008 at 1:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This is interesting:

Let's stay real here, girl. *Gun owners* large and small, are capable of an attack. The size is not the issue. Ability and tendency to inflict catastrophic injury or death is. Therefore, arbitrarily banning all "large breed" *gun owners* would be uncalled for. Also, never in the history of the world has a gun, large or small, ever jumped out of a drawer or pocket
and attacked anyone.

"Assault is a behavior, not a device." Well duh. Assaulting with a gun is a behavior. Assault by a dog is also a behavior--learned behavior.

M

Posted by hottopics (anonymous) on May 8, 2008 at 4:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I dont agree. Many of these 'family' pit bulls were never taught this behavior. Its just a natural instinct of the breed. No different than a tiger or bear or other animals of this nature. Its just plain common sense. If you are going to own a potential 'weapon', you need to lock it up like you do your fire arm and carry that liability that goes with it.

Posted by Bjnemp (anonymous) on May 8, 2008 at 9:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

MelissaE: What? "Assault by a dog is also a behavior--learned behavior." Interesting. So, you are saying the only reason dogs, particularly Pit Bulls, attack and/or kill is because someone, assuming you mean a human, taught them that behavior? Then who taught the snake to strike, the gator to "death roll", or the shark to bite? Could it possibly be---Gulp!---genetics? I vote for genetics, but you could be right. If a snarling, slobbering Pit Bull ever attacks you on the street, pet it, love it, and rub it's tummy. Using your logic, that should teach it to be a nice doggy and save your deluded hide.

Posted by Kstrebuchet (anonymous) on May 8, 2008 at 10:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Mel
Assault by a dog is also a behavior--learned behavior.??

I am not sure I would agree with that, sometimes, animals are just that, an animal. as bjnemp said "who taught the snake to strike, the gator to "death roll", or the shark to bite"

on the otherhand, I once saw a litter of puppies mall a kitten to death, I guess they were probably taught by their mama to kill cats,

Posted by admireed (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 1:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

http://cjonline.com/stories/050908/bre_p...

Posted by Bjnemp (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 1:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Whoops! You beat me to it, admireed. I read this in the Topeka paper this morning. MelissaE: Looks like these naughty puppies were taught some bad behavior, huh?

Two pit bulls shot outside Topeka school Dogs had charged police, two others

The Capital-Journal

Published Friday, May 9, 2008 at 10:54 a.m. CDT

Topeka police shot two pit bulls this morning in the 2200 block of S.W. Eveningside after they snarled at a school maintenance man and menaced a high school student who was walking to class.

A Topeka police officer shot the dogs about 7:15 a.m. when the animals charged the officer, and one dog was killed and the second was wounded, said Kristi Pankratz, public information officer.

Posted by hottopics (anonymous) on May 9, 2008 at 5:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

No one is surprised........They are just time bombs waiting to go off. People are dying horrible vicious deaths as well as other pets being gutted like wild prey. Yes, several pets are gutted while being shook to their deaths. It is cruel torture and someone needs to put a stop to it. Or try like I did and think you made a difference. Entire countries dont ban them for no reason. Its not their fault, they are just born that way. But us on the other hand, know better but some still choose to put our lives at risk.

Posted by MelissaE (anonymous) on May 10, 2008 at 8:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm not defending individual dogs that attack, just to be clear. I believe they are taught to act that way--a learned behavior by a master who teaches and allows that behavior. I do not think "they are just born that way" because, at one time or another, weren't all dogs wild? How come the pit bull ended up the "target" while the rottweiler is more tolerable (or any other breed).

What I find awful is that, because of reputation, people want to "destroy the breed". I don't believe that we need to focus on removing any more creatures than we've already lost--no matter what it is (but I might be open to removing all mosquitoes or house flies, LOL).

I also think that if we're going to put a policy out on 1 breed, it's stupid. The policy should apply to all breeds.

And if that happens, just wait to see the amount of dogs that get dumped.

Melissa

Posted by Bjnemp (anonymous) on May 11, 2008 at 12:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Melissa, my dear, I'm sure you're a fine lady but you are so wrong about Pit Bulls. They are genetically altered killing machines. I pray we don't someday read an article in the local paper about you being mauled to death by a couple of your "loving" pit bulls that suddenly snapped and ripped your throat out when you startled with a noisy trash bag. I sure hope you don't have children in your house.

Posted by hottopics (anonymous) on May 11, 2008 at 9:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Until it happens to you.........unfortunately thats the only way it will change the minds of people who have not lived it or seen it. Opinions, beliefs, whatever you call it, its about public safety. I dont give a rats what the breed is but it is the Pit Bull more times than not. BUT what is needed is a law, a ordinance, a friggin system that knows how to control and enforce people who choose to own ANY breed of dog. If a owner is irresponsible in any way they must PAY, PAY, PAY, PAY. Unless and until we put into law and ENFORCE the law, people will continue to harbor dangerous animals. No one in this town will enforce or protect us from idiots who get dogs and carelessly put us, the community, at risk. This is happening all over the place and what is learned from it??? Not a damn thing because your city officials continue to let these idiots off the hook to go back to owning dogs that can and do kill. What is there to argue about??????

Posted by hottopics (anonymous) on May 12, 2008 at 6 p.m. (Suggest removal)

UPDATE-

Kevin Nelson has been made aware of the problem and is requesting a copy of the Vicious Dog Ordinance.

Its a start.

Has anyone else been trying to make contact with other commissioners?

Posted by lisag (anonymous) on May 12, 2008 at 10:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Anybody else notice the large amount of 'animal problem' calls in the Gazette's daily police report recently? 18 in tonites paper for the past weekend. The city needs to get a grip on the animal control situation & the city attorney prosecute those guilty. Only a tougher stance will reign in the problem. The city has been too lax for too long.

Posted by hottopics (anonymous) on May 12, 2008 at 10:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think they only have ONE animal control officer.

Posted by create (anonymous) on May 13, 2008 at 8:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Hottopics, good to hear you heard from Kevin Nelson. This is to his benefit, for sure. I hope he can get the ball rolling. I contacted Bob Agler, who had e-mail problems, and Jeff Longbine. Neither got back to me.

Posted by hottopics (anonymous) on May 13, 2008 at 9:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Give them a few days to respond. They have businesses to run and daily life but KEEP AT THEM.

Posted by bnance (Brandy Nance) on May 16, 2008 at 3:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hi, I'm Brandy Nance, with the Gazette. Does anybody have contact information for psmyers or her sister? If you do, please e-mail it to me at nance@emporiagazette.com. I'd like to talk to her sister.

Thank you,
Brandy Nance

Posted by hottopics (anonymous) on May 18, 2008 at 8:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

If anyone else has a dog attack that needs to be told get a hold of Brandi too! This happens more than most people realize either because they dont know the person or it isnt in their neighborhood.

Posted by glarson (Gwen Larson) on May 27, 2008 at 6:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

We'll continue discussion from the newest story:

http://www.emporiagazette.com/news/2008/...

Gwen Larson
Managing Editor

Posted by jennienbj (anonymous) on May 27, 2008 at 11:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I do not think it is fair that most dog attacks are blamed on "pit bull types". I do not agree that when that woman got attacked in her yard that the dog should not be blamed, it should. That dog should probably be put to sleep, if my dogs attacked someone that was not doing anything I would probably put them to sleep myself. The only dogs my dogs have a problem with are the ankle biters. All those dogs do is bark and yap all of the time and the owneres allow those dogs to just run out the front door and go pee without being on a leash. That is a problem, becuase then those dogs come running into my yard when my dogs are in their pen and the little dogs try to get into my pen and provoke my dogs who are just trying to go about their business. I have called before on animals that are on the loose and nothing gets done about it. I have been tempted to tie the loose dogs to a tree in my yard when they come to my yard. That way the dog catcher or cops can just come pick that dog up from my house instead of looking for it.

Posted by jennienbj (anonymous) on May 27, 2008 at 11:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I also think that any dog owner big or small should have to have a fenced area where the dogs can go to the restroom and not be tied up in front of their houses or wherever. We built our dogs a pen that is 7 1/2 feet tall, so they can't jump out or anything. Now our problem is the dogs and cats that are on the loose that get in out pen or try to when our dogs are out there and cause problems.. I wish all people would come together and get an understanding of all dog breeds. I used to be afraid of certain dog breeds, but now I understand that any dog can be mean if they want to. I am a proud owner of two pit bulls, I have had them from the time they were 6 weeks old. Now both of them are almost 2. I am still working with them when it comes to meeting new people, and animals, especially when we are out walking. When we walk our dogs have on a harness and a a leash that can not break. I want anyone who owns a dog to be more responsible and stop pointing fingers at a certain breed.
I know someone who owns a doberman, who is 3 or 4, and that dog is probably the most well behaved animal I have ever seen, but they have caught their neighbor spraying that dog in the face with a water hose from her yard to provoke it. Also they will let their poodle out always at the same time as the doberman and instantly that poodle is at the fence barking and scratching at it trying to get through. The doberman just sits there and barks back because it is being provoked.
I would like to know when the next city meeting is about the animal issue. I have plenty concerns with all dod types even pit bulls and I am an owner. I think we all need to come together and have laws put into place for any dog. The leash law really needs to be followed. And that goes for those of you who have cats that you let run around the neighborhoods, they get knocked up and then the kittens are running loose. Put your dang cats on a kitty leash. It will not harm them.

Posted by jennienbj (anonymous) on May 27, 2008 at 11:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Netloafer- I am willing to work with whatever comes about except the ban. I just wish people would give the breed a chance, come to my house and hang out with my dogs, be careful they might lick you to death and wear your arms out playing fetch for hours on end. I am one of the owners that try to keep them around babies, toddlers, kids, teens, adults and older people. My dogs love to play with everyone, my dogs especially love children, my nephews and neice have learned how to tell them the commands of sit, stay, shake, no. You name it they listen to most people.

Posted by stevenlk (anonymous) on May 27, 2008 at 12:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

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Posted by libbymae (anonymous) on June 9, 2008 at 6:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

pitbulls seem to be a breed of animal that has limited learning
abilities due to their breeding purposes, the power of their
jaws surpasses all other breeds,and has been proven in most if not all attacks that they fail to adhere to command to cease
their hold,yes any dog can bite but a bite is not a savage attack that will not stop,pit bulls loose all sense of control in an attack,they become physicotic,knowing how many,many
attacks and the damage they have caused why would anyone want to take such a chance?

Posted by jennienbj (anonymous) on June 9, 2008 at 9:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Actually, libbymae, pitbulls jaws may be strong, but there is no proof to say that their jaws surpass all other breeds! and if your dog is a good listener they will stop attacking, people who do not teach their dogs to listen will keep doing what they want.
I actuallly have taken the chance, I have two wonderful full-blooded pits and they are awesome. In fact less than an hour ago we went for a walk and a dog was running loose, tried to attack us. My dog being the wonderful PITBULL he is, turned and walked away, he walked away!! Can you believe a pit bull walked away from a fight? holy cow, must be the first one ever in history right? I don't think so. Two days ago my husbands cousin in law was attacked by an akita, guess what that akita is already back at its house and it was not put in the paper. You know why, because it was an Akita, not a pitbull. Kind of crappy don't you think?
Even if you hate the breed, get to know a pit, my dogs love everyone that they meet. Give the dog a chance. Have you had a bad encounter with a pit? I have been bitten by a few smaller dogs, but I do not hate that dog because of it.

Everyone has their own opinions, but do not blame the breed, blame the owners who let their dogs get out of control.