The Emporia Gazette

glarson (anonymous) says...

More on the original editorial:

http://www.emporiagazette.com/news/20...

October 13, 2009 at 9:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

koro (anonymous) says...

Teachers are underpaid? Try looking at the support staff. I have worked for the school district for 14 years and have yet to break poverty level wages. And yet, I have had difficulty finding a different job because with all of my current job requirements I have been told that I am "over-qualified". As for spending the $$$ on the football field...well, I thought that the school district was broke. No raises for employees this year. Give me a break...

October 13, 2009 at 11:12 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sandman (anonymous) says...

Yes, Methusla, this is SAD!!!! Am afraid when some people see the word "Stimulus" they will automatically think "FREE"! That seems to be our "lastest" word,"Stimulus", just as in the past everything was a "system"(you shave your face with a "system" not a razor!) Problem is, the word "Stimulus" has such deeper meaning! Just where is that "Stimulus" coming from, you and me!!!! That was why I posted what I did last night, the school board must think "Boy! they got away with a fast one!" in reality they are just "sinking" the taxpapers deeper in. I believe they said that to replace, at this time, the "turf" would cost $250,000. dollars! The clue here, is "at this time". The field will not even be paid for when, you and I know, it will need to be replaced and just as we will need to be replaced!!!! Have we lost ALL common sense and reasoning?

October 13, 2009 at 2:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

biscuitboy (anonymous) says...

What most people don't seem to grasp is that our economy is driven by constant spending and never-ending growth. You say stop the spending until we once again can afford it.....if we stop the spending with our current economic systems you will never be able to afford it. Both the democrats and the republicans understand this......the only reason the republicans have opposed all the spending stimulus is their fear they won't get the credit for it.

Please understand...I am not belittling your concerns....in fact I full well agree. But stopping the spending while holding on to the same old growth oriented economic system will speed up the collapse not slow it. It's the system itself that is broken.

October 13, 2009 at 6:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sandman (anonymous) says...

biscuitboy, we are NOT saying "don't spend" BUT spend wisely. Yes, mend what needs mending but building a totally new field when it has been proven that the turf is NOT successful, we are just saying MAKE SURE that this is what we need to do NOW. Somethings need to be fixed before we go ALL OUT and build something that truly is NOT needed and will be outdated before it is paid for.

October 13, 2009 at 8:47 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

Spend realistically. I don't think anybody private or government is going to stop spending all together, that is unrealistic. I think if we learn to spend realistically(wisely) our economy will mend correctly. The average individual has no choice but to do this. The government not so much. They don't have to. They can just scare people into submission by threatening to take away their "government cheese" so they don't have to be responsible with their spending. Yeah it sucks that we have to be responsible and they don't. Oh well.

R.

October 13, 2009 at 10:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sandman (anonymous) says...

Thank you, Seriouslyfolks. You understood what I was trying to say.

October 13, 2009 at 10:09 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

Amen, I believe that biscuitboy, sandman, seriouslyfolks and myself have a pretty good grasp on exactly what realistic spending is, would accomplish and why the present day circumstances warrant a controlled slow down of unnecessary, un-needed and frivolous spending !
I do not totally agree with biscuitboys statement " What most people don't seem to grasp is that our economy is driven by constant spending and never-ending growth. " .
There is no way one can spend more than they earn or are able to take in, because if you do you will either have to borrow money to survive, which the U.S. government has done for several years or as in the case of the U.S. government you will have to print more currency which will make the dollar worth even less, based upon how much currency you print.
Now it would seem to me the best solution to the current problems facing this Nation, States, BOE's, Citys and Countys would be to bring their excessive spending under control, lower utility rates, lower tax mil levys, so the people would have more disposable cash to drive the economy and therefore make the economy, etc. " Grow " ! People can' t and won' t readily spend money, if they have to cut back on spending in order to pay their higher taxes, higher utility rates, etc., because of uncontrolled, uneeded, unnecessary and frivolous spending by our governing bodys.
However I do agree that stopping spending entirely would have disasterous results.

October 13, 2009 at 10:50 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

biscuitboy (anonymous) says...

I'm not supporting this carpet and never have. And I agree that reasonable controlled spending is preferable to unfettered spending such as existed in the housing market leading up to the crash. But before we jump to quickly to blame the government for that crash (either republican or democrat) lets not forget who was coming up with all these creative new ways to entice unqualified borrowers into the over heated market just to keep the growth alive. It was our friendly investment bankers my friends. Now they may have done it with a wink and nod from government regulators...and they (both the bankers and government) certainly wasted no time in dumping all that bad paper back on us when it all came unglued....but it was the bankers idea. The government just played the role of the buffoon.

Which then brings us back to what methusla just asked and answered. How do you continue to spend more than you make......If you are a banker your answer is to just keep on borrowing....borrow till you puke then we will get the government to print more worthless money to bail us (the bankers not you) out and we still start the growth wheel spinning all over again

October 14, 2009 at 4:14 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

biscuitboy (anonymous) says...

How then is the government supposed to cut utility rates and lower taxes. One major way is to stop buying and building things....but the more cuts you make in this area the more you affect the small businessman who sell those supplies to the city or the contractor who builds those building. Then they in turn reduce buying and building......and hiring and paying employees.....who then in their own turn reduce their buying and building until eventually it reaches what you sell or what you build...and the beat goes on. The same thing holds true if the government selects its more predictable solution,,,,,,cutting employees.

I'm not arguing against more responsible spending...I'm just trying to make the point that its not quite as simple as everybody just cutting back for a few weeks that everything will be fine again. It is much more complex than that And we haven't even looked at the long-term effect when all these cutbacks causes businesses to fail that then sell their assets off overseas so when the economy does come back those products become a liability to us rather than an asset.

The wheel goes round and round!

October 14, 2009 at 4:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

biscuitboy (anonymous) says...

To summarize...then I'll shut up (at least for a few minutes:-))....for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Large cuts in government spending will have effects other than the ones intended...and some of those unintended consequences can be as damaging as the intended ones would be helpful.

October 14, 2009 at 6:33 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

Good morning Biscuitboy,

the front wheels have a flat, we need to fix them.
+

It's time to bite the bullet, and take our consequences.

Something has to be done, I'm just not sure what.
I do believe, however that too many expect the government to fix all of our problems.
Ask not, what your country can do for you , You get my drift.

I am worried that only a full blown depression, like what we experienced in the late 20's early 30's will wake people up.

October 14, 2009 at 6:50 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

biscuitboy (anonymous) says...

I hear what you are saying Steve...and agree with much of it. But ironically, many "experts"...(not all)......beleive that a hands off, no spending, government policy
to a large extent caused the great depression......and massive government spending programs are what ended it. In fact...many of the government programs now looked out suspiciously began as efforts to end the Great Depression.

Oh...and Good Morning to you also.

October 14, 2009 at 7:02 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

biscuitboy,
I agree with your last post, however the policy of spend, tax and print more money cannot be an answer or a fix !
And yes the government work programs back in the early 30's is what ended the " GREAT DEPRESSION " ! But those same programs and the continuation of government prop-ups has resulted in businesses, etc. depending on or thinking the government and taxpayers will not only support them by buying their goods and products, but depend on the taxpayers and government bailing them out when they have deceived or defrauded the people and the government and are in trouble and may go out of business.
I too am not absolutely sure what the sure fire fix is, but I believe that substantially cutting back on indiscriminate, unnecessary, Federal, State and Local government spending, substantially cutting back on or eliminating, hand outs, a.k.a. " tarps or bailouts " would and should be the first step !
If an economy is dependent on the government borrowing, taxing, spending to grow, and printing more worthless money in order to try to survive, how long can such an economy continue to last and sustain itself, without severely crashing down at some point and taking the majority of the people with it ?
Will this country then be known as ChinAmerica, JapAmerica, AsiAmerica, EuroAmerica ?
An economy based on indiscriminate government spending , taxing beyond the ability of people to pay, borrowing indiscriminately and continuing to print worthless money in order to keep going, is not a wise thing to do !

October 14, 2009 at 9:08 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sandman (anonymous) says...

biscuitboy, I understand WHAT you are saying BUT looking at it locally, YES! there needs to be spending done BUT, wouldn't that 6+ million be so much better to put in the actual Educational buildings we currently have? Replace and add text that we currently have? Many of the classrooms are short! Buy various supplies for classrooms, since by LAW we are required to supply pencils and paper, etc. Up teachers salaries, look and see where Kansas falls in that area, believe you will be surprised. Believe most are saying: "Do we truly NEED a new football field when there are so many others things that are NEEDED!!! Do you know that in a majority of buildings you MUST account for each copy that you make? Because of the cost of ink, paper etc. Yes, I have seen many of the teachers spend their own money for certain things for the classroom and have done so myself. But since the money appears to be there, use it wisely to educate the numbers NOT the few.

October 14, 2009 at 9:28 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZT...

October 14, 2009 at 9:47 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

Economists and historians are split about 50/50 as to whether government spending ended the depression or actually extended it. Then there was this little thing called WWII.

October 14, 2009 at 10:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

open_eyes,
I believe that WWII was the determining factor in absolute putting the U.S. onto the recovery path, because of the jobs that were created during and after the war. It is a sad thing, to think a war and sacrifices that went with it may have actually helped the U.S. to to prosper and grow .

October 14, 2009 at 12:18 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

biscuitboy (anonymous) says...

Hey.....maybe that's the genius behind the Dick Cheney school of foreign policy.....a full time war equals full employment.....Why didn't I think of that?

sandman....I agree with you completely about the BOE decision on carpet....my whole thing here is more generic in nature about the good and bad points of government spending and the affect of that spending on the economy.

open_eyes.....I don't know about the 50/50 but my caveat about not all was one hundred percent in anticipation of your response.

methusla.....I believe we are often closer together than might appear...We just have a different way of getting there. I totally disagree with you however about the moon landing....:-)

October 14, 2009 at 12:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

biscuitboy - my comment was in response to methusla's claim that government work programs are what ended the depression.

For the 50/50, (actually 49/51).... here is the survey from
http://blogs.cfr.org/shlaes/2009/01/1...

“Taken as a whole, government policies of the New Deal served to lengthen and deepen the Great Depression.”

Forty-nine percent of the economists agreed, or agreed with provisos, with the idea that the New Deal made the Depression worse. Fifty-one percent disagreed.

October 14, 2009 at 1:24 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

Did anyone watch the youtube video I linked above? You should, it's really funny.

R.

October 14, 2009 at 2:37 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

seriouslyfolks,
I did watch the video and yes it is funny, but it is also right on point in some ways also !

October 14, 2009 at 4:21 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sandman (anonymous) says...

serious, cute video but as Meth, could see a WHOLE lot of truth!!!

open_eyes, interesting-but have always heard that yes, war helps the economy and thins out the masses. They seem to be devided but me, myself and I, think war is so very sad, to see our young fighting and dying on soil so far from home. Are they dying in vein, I sincerely hope not.

October 14, 2009 at 9:12 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

I wish there were no need ever for wars. I wish the world lived in such peace and harmony that no nation ever even had a reason to have a military.
(Sigh) - alas, I live in the real world, unfortunately..... :-(

October 14, 2009 at 10:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sandman (anonymous) says...

Yes, open_eyes, the REAL world. Believe I need Calgon right now!!!!!!! Walked in the kitchen, water all over the floor from a 7 year old frig!!!!! Everything thawed out-Oh! PLEASE, Calgon take me away!!!!!! :-) Hills Appliance first thing in the morning!!!

October 14, 2009 at 10:32 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sandman (anonymous) says...

Got to remember I'm doing my part to help this economy!!!!
:-)

October 14, 2009 at 10:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

biscuitboy (anonymous) says...

sandman....that water might be nothing any more serious than a plugged up defrost drain line.....or a supply line leak for an icemaker.....especially if the fridge is still cooling properly. If that's true you could save yourself a lot of money......Sorry Hill's Appliance!

October 15, 2009 at 7:04 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

biscuitboy (anonymous) says...

sandman....just reread you post and noticed that everything was thawed......that's more serious but still might be repairable. A seven year old refrigerator should not be ready for the junk heap quite yet.

October 15, 2009 at 7:07 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

open_eyes (anonymous) says...

Cash for Clunker Refrigerators! ;-)

October 15, 2009 at 7:59 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

methusla (anonymous) says...

sandman,
Here is something you might try ! See if you can buy a refrigerator condensor cleaning brush ! Locate where the condensor coils are on your frig. and clean the coils gently with the brush and see if that will help !
I learned this little trick from a repair man and once or twice a week I clean the lint, etc., that collects on the condensor coil and our frig. has worked just fine for about 10 years now !
I called the repair man about a month after we purchased the frig, because it was not cooling properly and the only thing the repairman did was clean the condensor coil and the frig started cooling fine and has since I started keeping the condensor coil myself ! I believe I purchased the frig cleaning brush from Bluestem, I don' t remember for sure, I believe the cost of the brush was about $10.00. LOL
If you still have your frig owners manual it should show you where the condensor coils are located and how to acess them.
By the way the frig brush looks kind of like a rat-tail brush with a fairly long handle on it.

October 15, 2009 at 8:09 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

biscuitboy (anonymous) says...

Excellent advice methusla......the condenser coil is usually located on the bottom of the fridge.....easier to get dirty and harder to clean.....or on the back. A vacuum cleaner with a small tip accessory nozzle can also be helpful. But be gentle....if you puncture the coil you will have big problems.

October 15, 2009 at 8:27 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sandman (anonymous) says...

You guys are so AWESOME!!!!! Now, open_eyes, I laughed the most at yours! Hills has been out, fixed (a relay) and I taught, so stopped after school and paid!!! Now that is SERVICE!!!!! Meth, the back is all enclosed so I will have to check the bottom and see if I can get a vac. hose under there, super advice!!!!! Biscuitboy,, will admit, I had to laugh also at yours, been there, done that!!!! We had a back up frig. in the basement at one time, so I kept pop etc. in. When the kids were younger I decided they were drinking way to much pop and wanted my husband to put a lock on it, which he did. Only problem, when he drilled to put the pad lock, he hit the
freon line, OOPS!!!!! Yes, major problem!!!! Guess whose fault it was, MINE!!!! I had him do it!!!!!! Makes me think, a friend and his wife bought a new rolltop desk, she wanted a light inside, which he did BUT the front of the desk was rolled-up when he drilled, OOPS!!!!!! YES! Life is funny!!!!!!!!!

October 15, 2009 at 5:02 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sandman (anonymous) says...

Oh! the "old" frig, got it fixed, they had to "bypass" where my husband drilled, was cheaper to fix then buy a new one!!! That was a number of years ago and it still worked when I gave it away!!!! We learn by our mistakes, correct? :-) Now, the one I just had fixed, it was just alittle over 6 years (about 3 months)
Must say, I've always been happy with "Hills Appliance"-my husband was never one, on certain things, to be able to fix, always nice to have a "back-up"!

October 16, 2009 at 12:20 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

biscuitboy (anonymous) says...

And let me add that I have nothing against Hill's Appliance either. They seem to be a fine bunch of folks. But like car dealers.....electronic sales...and many other things.....given the choice they would much prefer to sell you a new one than to repair an old one. There's more profit in it.

October 16, 2009 at 6:55 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

sandman (anonymous) says...

biscuitboy, I understood, tis always cheaper to do it yourself then have it done but sometimes that back-up is WONDERFUL!!!! So very glad there are those you can turn to when life takes a "side track".

October 16, 2009 at 9:31 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )