The Emporia Gazette

HenryVIII (anonymous) says...

How ‘bout those crazy parents saying they don’t want their kids to watch the National Address on Educational Success on Sept 8th? I bet they wouldn’t care if it was some celebrity or sports star telling the kids to stay in school. It’s pretty sad that these parents are depriving their students of an inspirational speech from the leader of our great nation. What kind of message does that send to the kids? How are the parents explaining this to the children? Why should the kids strive to do well in school so they can become President one day only to have parents say they don’t want you to talk to their kids? You may not have voted for him, but he is still OUR PRESIDENT. Please try to show a little respect.

If anyone on here doesn’t like the idea of their kid watching our President, please tell me how you would respond to your kid if they ask, “Why don’t you want me to watch the President, mommy/daddy?”
'enry

September 4, 2009 at 10:36 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

netloafer (anonymous) says...

HenryVIII

I don't know a lot about the furor, but I don't think I could find myself assuming that it's unpatriotic for some parents to express concern.

Barack Obama is our president and he seems to be a very caring man. Michelle seems absolutely wonderful and Sasha and Malia are delights.

Having said that, it does not follow that if I disagree with the president on policy or the administration of his duties that I am being unpatriotic.

As I said I don't know much at all about the issue (Hence I haven't formed an opinion one way or the other), but I think it would be wise to give our fellow citizens who have concerns some benefit of the doubt. If/when we take the position that those who disagree with the president or his supporters are unpatriotic (you seem to on this particular issue), it doesn't take much to come to the place of deciding that those who disagree with policy or its chief proponent should be sanctioned in some way. Twentieth century history is full of that kind of demagoguery, both left and right. It almost always gains energy and traction to forward some societally beneficial program and ends up causing a great deal of harm in the end.

As to how they're explaining their discontent to their children, I think it more their business than yours or mine, unless they are plotting something nefarious in their homes.

I'd be interested in knowing how you think we should deal with this type of dissent. What would you do or what should we do with those who dissent from the president, his goals, and policy objectives?

September 4, 2009 at 11:46 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

I don't think the issue has anything at all to do with being un-patriotic. What it does have to do with is covert racism. No one complained when George Bush gave talks about succeeding in school. No one complained when he went to schools to read to children, something he and his First Lady, Laura, did frequently.

As a teacher, now retired, I heartily support our President addressing kids on the value of Education and the personal power one receives when succeeding in school. Our nation suffers from a high number of high school drop-outs. What more fitting thing for our president to do than give a pep talk to our kids about staying in school and making something of themselves.

This situation involving people refusing to allow their kids to listen to the President, or saying that he is trying to control their minds is coming from the same ilk who claimed during the campaign that if Obama became president he would take away all the guns. I have yet to see that happen. What is more, no president has that kind of power all by himself. What were people thinking? Sure did promote a lot of gun sales though.

I overheard a conversation not long ago that the President is building concentration camps for old people. One man said he even saw the quonset huts. Oh my. On top of that, it didn't help that Sarah Palin chimed in with her take on death lists or some sort of thing like that. But we have to remember that those people vote too. All I can do is ignore it. It does no good to argue with people who won't listen.

Dissent is healthy, yes, if it is done in a thoughtful, reasonable manner. The kind of dissent that makes for great debate is good dissent. But reporting that you've seen the quonset huts is just pure bunk and should be ignored.

Again, I welcome President Obama addressing our kids. He certainly offers an excellent example in himself as someone who has come a long way through his own education. That prep school he attended as a youngster, Punahou, is one that was built by the New England missionaries who went to Hawaii to introduce Christianity to the Islanders. They built that school for their own children; it is steeped in the tradition of the value of a good education. Bravo to Obama's grandmother for sending him there.

September 4, 2009 at 12:25 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

toofast (anonymous) says...

It is my understanding that the uproar isn't about the speech itself, but about the government "lesson plans" that go along with it.

September 4, 2009 at 12:55 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

netloafer (anonymous) says...

The title of the post begins "unpatriotic conservatives overreact to President Obama...."

I think we can agree that the talk about concentration camps isn't reasonable in the same way that talk of 9-11 being a Jewish conspiracy or a U.S. plot carried out with U.S. missles is. But while we can almost all agree on that, where in the continuum does parents disagreeing with the President become unpatriotic or "covert racism?"

That in itself doesn't seem like "reasonable, thoughtful" diaglogue to me.

Since these things are bunk then we should ignore them, don't you think? If not, what should we do with these people?

September 4, 2009 at 1:05 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

netloafer (anonymous) says...

I need to make a grammar correction. The sentence that beings "I think we can agree" should end with U.S. plot carried out with U.S. missles isn't." I don't want word getting around that I think that 9-11 was a sinister Jewish or. U.S. government plot. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT!

September 4, 2009 at 1:08 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

HenryVIII (anonymous) says...

Our President is a representative for our ENTIRE country. (not just democrats) If you don't support our president in ANYTHING he does, then it would seem you don't support the prosperity of our nation. If you take pride in your country, you should take pride in its leader. This leads me to believe those against this message are unpatriotic. Why else would you be opposed to one of the most important people in the world talking to your kids?
The goal of this address is to relay the importance of education to our children. Why do some people feel Obama is unqualified to give this message? Heck, most parents probably know more about Obama than they know about their kids' teachers! I sure hope their teachers aren't democrats because they're teaching them the importance of education on a daily basis! Oh no! Quick, conservatives, you’d better go pull your kids out of class until you know what political party their teachers belong to. Also, you had better make sure the teacher tells you EVERYTHING they will tell you kid before you let them go back to school.

netloafer,
As create said, dissent CAN be healthy. I just don’t see how anyone could be opposed to something as harmless as a message about the importance of education. I feel that kind of resistance is unreasonable and unfounded. It seems to me, those opposed to this have something against the MAN and not the MESSAGE. I think all pulling the kid from class will do is teach the kids how to be a sore loser. If your kid doesn’t get picked as valedictorian, are you going to pull them from the graduation ceremony so they don’t hear the speech from the winner? Just because you don’t agree with who won, doesn’t mean the speech isn’t worth listening to.
I suppose you’re right that it is none of my business what the parents tell their kids. It just frightens me that these kids won’t understand the reason they aren’t allowed to watch a speech from our President. I just don’t want the children to come away with a lesson in hate and intolerance instead of a lesson in the importance of education. The President of the United States is someone for kids to look up to no matter who he/she is, what race they are, or what political party they belong to. The kids aren’t going to care about his politics. All they’ll know is that the leader of the best country in the world wants them to stay in school. How can that be bad?
‘enry

September 4, 2009 at 1:53 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

What exactly was the point in starting this thread?

September 4, 2009 at 2:30 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

netloafer (anonymous) says...

Henry VIII

I see. Unless we support our leader in anything he or she does we are unpatriotic.

As I said before, I don't have a position on the President's speech. But, I do have a position on loyalty. When I enlisted in the military I took an oath to defend our Constitution. I never took it as a personal loyalty oath to one person. I take my citizenship to mean the same thing. I have a geat deal of respect for the President, but it does not mean that I don't have the God given right to question his policies, etc. In fact, I say God forbid if we ever truly come to the place where our unquestioning loyalty to our "leader" is the measure of our citizenship. That is very dangerous ground!

I still didn't get an answer to my question. What should we do with those who are acting so unpatriotically?

September 4, 2009 at 3:07 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

HenryVIII (anonymous) says...

netloafer,
To answer your question, we should do nothing. This is a free country, after all, so they are allowed to do and believe whatever conspiracy theory they want.
I just hope it doesn't get to the point where parents are keeping their kids chained-up in the basement so they don't hear Obama on the radio or see him on the TV or Internet. Is it wrong to raise your kids to hate someone based on their race or political ties? I think so. What should we do about it? I have no idea.
If only there was a way to let these people know how silly they are acting. The problem is that they listen to too much Rush Limbaugh and watch too much Fox News. These programs only reinforce these crazy ideas (in the name of ratings) and conservatives begin to think it's acceptable to act this way. If we could show them how dumb they sound, maybe they wouldn't flip their lids the next time our president says, "Stay in school, kids!"
'enry

September 4, 2009 at 3:23 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

HenryVIII (anonymous) says...

netloafer,
Also, I didn't say you have to support EVERYTHING our President does, but you have to wonder about these people when they don't support ANYTHING he does. (including something as innocent as a "stay in school" speech)
Kids trying hard in school is a good thing, yes? When this happens, our nation prospers, right? Would you agree with that? If you don’t support something that’ll help our nation prosper, wouldn’t that be unpatriotic?

serioulsyfolks,
I was curious as to the REAL reasons why parents are against this speech. Also, I wanted conservatives to read the comments in hopes that they’d realize how ridiculous they are being. Not everything has to be about Logjam, you know. ;)

'enry

September 4, 2009 at 3:35 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

netloafer (anonymous) says...

Henry VIII

I have enough things to think about besides what some of my neighbors might be telling their kids. I suppose if they were chaining them to the walls to keep them from school or listening to the President then we should consider flogging them or finding some other appropriate punishment.

Kids staying in school is an exceedingly good thing. Prosperity is alright. as long as it's obtained by not compromising one's principles or prospering at someone else's expense. Some words come to mind in that regard - "Man does not live by bread alone." "What good does it profit a man if he gain the whole world and lose his soul?"

You also said that in order to support a leader's program for prosperity we should support ANYTHING (you put it in caps for emphasis). Are you saying there is nothing a leader couldn't do in order to make us prosperous? If so, you seem very ripe for some future despot to manipulate.

I'm with seriously folks on this one. I think deep inside you knew what the answer was to your question. You knew they were being unpatriotic. Create knew they were closet racists.

September 4, 2009 at 4:04 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

create (anonymous) says...

netloafer,

I already gave you an answer to your question. In two different places, I said ignore them. "All I can do is ignore it." and "...is just pure bunk and should be ignored."

Also, with regard to the lesson plan that will accompany the address, I will give you my best guess as an educator. Most states, Kansas included, have adopted the National Standards for education which include all of the standards, benchmarks, and indicators for all the different subjects studied in school.

This lesson plan will inform the teacher what standards, benchmarks and indicators were used thus allowing teachers to document this information as they are required to do in their record keeping.

The lesson plan, if it is worth its salt, will also suggest to the teacher any other outside activities she or he can use to help obtain a deeper understanding of this communique.

Don't forget, President Obama was a law professor so he knows his way around the classroom.

I like what James Carville said on CNN today with response to those who are overreacting to this address. He said, "There's a lot of stupid people in this country...there's nothing you can do about stupidity except live with it."

September 4, 2009 at 4:39 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

netloafer (anonymous) says...

Create

I receommend you take your own advice and ignore it.

James Carville is right. There are a lot of stupid people in this country. If I had to hazard a guess I think I'd be safe to say there are at lease a few stupid lawyers and, God knows, a few stupid politicians and media pundits. Who knows, there may even be a dumb Democrat or two lurking about. I'd be willing to bet stupid people come from the most diverse backgrounds. I'd be willing to be there are even a few stupid people in the Department of Education (some Simon and Garfunkel comes to mind - "When I think back on all the crap I learned in high school, it's a wonder I can think at all") And what was it Forrest Gump said? "Stupid is as stupid does."

September 4, 2009 at 4:57 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

HenryVIII (anonymous) says...

netloafer,
I think you are confusing the term "anything" with "everything".
To agree with "everything", would mean you must agree with every single thing. (which is what you are saying)
To agree with "anything", would mean you must agree with at least one thing. (which is what I am saying)

Instead of using "anything", I guess I should have said:
"...If you don't support our president in A SINGLE THING he does..."
or
"...you have to wonder about these people when they don't support A SINGLE THING he does..."

Sorry for the confusion.
'enry

September 4, 2009 at 5:01 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

"...you have to wonder about these people when they don't support A SINGLE THING he does..."

It really impresses me that you KNOW that "these people" "don't support A SINGLE THING he does..."
How do you do it?
There has to be some money to be made with a talent like that. At a carnival perhaps.

September 4, 2009 at 8:33 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

HenryVIII (anonymous) says...

seriouslyfolks,
If these people don't support something as harmless as a "stay in school" message, I find it hard to believe they'd support anything else. Can you name one thing Obama has done that conservatives have supported?

Have a great 3-day weekend, all!
'enry

September 5, 2009 at 10:30 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

I don't think conservatives all think exactly the same like you apparently do, so I can't really answer that question. I'm sure that some have supported some things and not others. Conservatives don't have one collective mind just as liberals don't. The title of this thread should have been "let's stereotype and bash conservatives because it's easy and fun to do"

September 5, 2009 at 10:48 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

netloafer (anonymous) says...

Henry VIII

I cn think of some. I tend to think of myself as leaning conservative. Early in the election campaign I supported Barack Obama (I have the contributions to the campaign to prove it). I believed in his campaign theme of change. As time progressed I withdrew my support over the pro-life issue. I didn't do it lightly, but felt a moral obligation to do so when I found that the Senator's willingness to engage constructively with pro-life citizens wasn't as genuine as he'd led a lot of us pro-lifers to believe. A lot of "neocons" (Francis Fukuyama, for example) switched their support to Obama over the themes of change, etc. Conservatives like David Brooks have exceptional rapport with the administration.

As I see it your problem is that it seems to have become easier to stereotype than to engage constructively (seriouslyfolks is right) with those thinking differently. You assume that you are a "reasonable" person and those with whom you disagree must be unreasonable, unpatriotic as you put. Others have said that those disagreeing are doing so because they're closet racists. That is also assumed to be a "reasonable" position. I'm sure such a position gives one great comfort, the sense of feeling noble compared to being the unreasoning, unpatriotic brutes on the other side.

The problem with such a position is that it is easily manipulated. It's the stuff the Nurenberg laws and social utopias are founded on.

My advice, and it's only that, is that a bit of introspection might be in order. I'm old enough now to have seen that all too often those who profess some noble intent may actually be seeing the world through the corrupting lens hidden in their hearts.

September 5, 2009 at 11:17 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

tbluma (anonymous) says...

If it is a stay in school message and nothing else that would be great, but I'd like to see the context of the speech before I were to let my child be forced to listen to it and then have have to participate in a lesson plan given out by the White House.
I am also getting damn tired of being called a racist every time I don't agree with barry. It doesn' t make a damn to me what color he is. Just because I agree or diaggree doen't have a damn thing to do with race. If a black person doesn't agree with him does that make that person a racist, or would the president have to be white for the black to be racist?

September 5, 2009 at 2:41 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

tbluma (anonymous) says...

You are probalbly right YY4U therefore I am going to try to establish myself as being a conservative who is not a racist.
My means is simply this
I am Catholic,I really really don't care for football, and there is one college that I really really dislike when it comes to sports.
BUT I would still back J C Watts in any almost any areana.
A black Baptist preacher who played football for the afore mentioned school I dislike.

September 5, 2009 at 3:14 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

tbluma (anonymous) says...

You lost me with that one YY4U goodbye.

September 5, 2009 at 3:34 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

Steve_Corbin (anonymous) says...

The speech is on-line at whitehouse.gov

Pretty good really.

September 7, 2009 at 12:26 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

HenryVIII (anonymous) says...

tbluma,
Who has called you racist for disagreeing with the president? Was it another conservative or something? I haven't heard any democrats or liberals call someone racist for disagreeing with the president. I only hear that kind of thing on conservative talk shows... Making up stories to gain sympathy is a sorry tactic.
'enry

September 7, 2009 at 11:49 p.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

'enry
Posted by create (anonymous) on September 4, 2009 at 12:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"I don't think the issue has anything at all to do with being un-patriotic. What it does have to do with is covert racism."

People say that people that disagree with Obama are racists all the time, even on The Emporia Gazette online. The above quote is from this very thread started by you to bash a certain group. Did you start this thread to bash that group so they could get sympathy? Does create secretly work for Fox news?
Please be quiet 'enry and get in your pod, we're from the government we're here to help.

P.P.F.A.
People Pods For America

September 8, 2009 at 9:18 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

HenryVIII (anonymous) says...

seriouslyfolks,
create didn't say people who disagreed with the president were racist. create said that people who didn't want the president telling their kids to do well in school were likely racist. (or at least uncomfortable having a black president) It's fine if you disagree, but these parents have no logical reason to disagree with him talking to the kids about education. Therefore, there must be another reason why they don’t want him to talk to them. What reason would that be?

Yes, I started this thread to "bash" the crazy people out there for flying off the handle over something so miniscule. I figure if we make fun of them enough they might see how silly they're being. I used the term "unpatriotic" because I knew it would hit home with the crazies. They want our president to fail...our president serves our nation...so...they want our nation to fail? Isn't that being unpatriotic?

Your little PPFA nonsense is a perfect example of the "sky is falling" tactics used by crazy conservatives. You concoct some ridiculous idea and pass it on to your conservative friends and the then government conspiracy theory grows.
‘enry

September 8, 2009 at 9:51 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

netloafer (anonymous) says...

Henry VIII

Your leap in logic is absolutely amazing.

There must have been some reason, therefore it had to be racism. People have been sent to the gulags and re-education camps for some assumed, subjective reason. All too often it's been done by a group that assumed it was more enlightened or noble than the fools and crazy people they relegate to the camps.

Here's an interesting little snippet from the Washington Examiner:

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinio...

Congressional Democrats started an investigation over George's Bush's interaction with students in 1991. The Dept of Education was investigaged, Lamar Alexander was called to testify about the matter. The conclusion - the administration hadn't done anything inappropriate.

This is what the NEA had to say:

"The National Education Association denounced the speech, saying it "cannot endorse a president who spends $26,000 of taxpayers' money on a staged media event at Alice Deal Junior High School in Washington, D.C. -- while cutting school lunch funds for our neediest youngsters."

Sometimes, in a partisan environment, it's a matter of histrionics is as histrionincs does.

September 8, 2009 at 10:35 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )

seriouslyfolks (anonymous) says...

This isn't the only instance where create has brought out the race card when people don't agree with Obama and she is not the only one. To say that the race card being pulled is a made up ploy to gain sympathy is absurd.

My PPFA thing is a joke. I like to joke around from time to time in case you missed that about me.

September 8, 2009 at 10:39 a.m. ( permalink | suggest removal )